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Korbach Frame Locks tested by yours truly... w0w

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Old 09-01-2004, 08:45 AM
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Default Korbach Frame Locks tested by yours truly... w0w

I only have a little time right now to do a quick review.

The guys at Korbach sent me an evaluation set of their frame locks for the 99-00 si in order to do an objective testing and unbiased review.

I put them on a mildly modded Si (owned by user "jaesun") and have done some ride evaluations.

You can tell they affect responsiveness of the vehicle immediately after taking your first turn.

The turn in is much more pronounced and immediate. My buddy was actually kind of scared after the install because he felt like the car was too easy to turn compared to before. And without being used to them, he was afraid he'd turn too hard when driving at speed on the hwy and switchin lanes.

Install was a major PITA because I have a drill sooooo old, and it doesn't have reverse on it. Also I didn't wear gloves and with short sleeves the metal shavings were flying everywhere and cutting the **** out of me.

I have made some editing of the manual and will send those back to them asap to be included. I took a bunch of pics too and will post up the full review soon.

The quality of the parts and way they are packaged goes beyond ANY parts that I have purchased previously - domestic or import. I can tell lots of engineering and design went into this product.

Bottom line: they work.

Would I buy them? Yes. As soon as they release the dc2 version.

I give them

My complaint: WHERE IS THE DC2 version?!

My other complaint: I wanted to slam them on the internet, but I can't figure out how to - the **** works.

I'm trying to get them to make some dc2/ eg versions of the product so we can all enjoy them as well..... Please post up if you're interested in a set for your chassis...

PICS:

Jaesun holding the proddy:



very well packaged:

Jaesun and his car in the "before" pic:

Removing front bumper:



Removing washer bottle upper bolt (use a crescent wrench):





Another pic of the goods:

Test fitment:

Pilot holes getting drilled:

Getting everything bolted up:







Done.

*[edit]pics added[/edit]


Modified by Black R at 12:38 PM 9/6/2004
Old 09-01-2004, 09:13 AM
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Default Re: Korbach Frame Locks tested by yours truly... w0w (Black R)

Really???
Old 09-01-2004, 09:16 AM
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Default Re: Korbach Frame Locks tested by yours truly... w0w (Black R)

That's awesome. I heard about these things about two months ago and was like WTF kinda **** is this. But after reading a little more into it and hearing this review I'm sold. When does the DC2 version come out? Hurry! I'm losing patience. When? When? When?
Old 09-01-2004, 09:16 AM
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Default Re: Korbach Frame Locks tested by yours truly... w0w (Black R)

first people won't believe. then they'll bash. then they'll join once they can't beat it.... thats how it goes.

to a great product. waiting for a dc2 release.
Old 09-01-2004, 09:20 AM
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Default Re: Korbach Frame Locks tested by yours truly... w0w (Black R)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Black R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Also I didn't wear gloves and with short sleeves the metal shavings were flying everywhere and cutting the **** out of me.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

The kit came with a douche and some fresh panties, I hope?
Old 09-01-2004, 09:24 AM
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Default Re: Korbach Frame Locks tested by yours truly... w0w (sackdz)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sackdz &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

The kit came with a douche and some fresh panties, I hope?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Mmmm, nothing says "responsive turning" like vinegar splashes

&lt;--Would be interested in a set for #97
Old 09-01-2004, 09:26 AM
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Default Re: Korbach Frame Locks tested by yours truly... w0w (Black R)

n e pix0rz or rinx?
Old 09-01-2004, 09:27 AM
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Default Re: Korbach Frame Locks tested by yours truly... w0w (Black R)

How much do they weigh ?
Old 09-01-2004, 09:36 AM
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Default Re: Korbach Frame Locks tested by yours truly... w0w (Black R)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Black R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I put them on a mildly modded si and have done some ride evaluations.

The turn in is much more pronounced and immediate. My buddy was actually kind of scared after the install because he felt like the car was too easy to turn compared to before. And without being used to them, he was afraid he'd turn too hard when driving at speed on the hwy and switchin lanes.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

For the record, it was NOT me
Old 09-01-2004, 12:08 PM
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Default Re: Korbach Frame Locks tested by yours truly... w0w (Black R)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Black R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Bottom line: they work.

Would I buy them? Yes. As soon as they release the dc2 version.

I give them </TD></TR></TABLE>

Just what I wanted to hear. I have a groupbuy set-up for some canadain folks and we should get them next week.
Old 09-01-2004, 12:09 PM
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Default Re: Korbach Frame Locks tested by yours truly... w0w (brucee)

seems good, just need a couple more reviews
Old 09-01-2004, 05:07 PM
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Default Re: Korbach Frame Locks tested by yours truly... w0w (Black R)

Originally Posted by Black R
I only have a little time right now to do a quick review.

The guys at Korbach are top notch and sent me an evaluation set of their frame locks for the 99-00 si.

I put them on a mildly modded si and have done some ride evaluations.

You can tell they affect responsiveness of the vehicle immediately after taking your first turn.

The turn in is much more pronounced and immediate. My buddy was actually kind of scared after the install because he felt like the car was too easy to turn compared to before. And without being used to them, he was afraid he'd turn too hard when driving at speed on the hwy and switchin lanes.

Install was a major PITA because I have a drill sooooo old, and it doesn't have reverse on it. Also I didn't wear gloves and with short sleeves the metal shavings were flying everywhere and cutting the **** out of me.

I have made some editing of the manual and will send those back to them asap to be included. I took a bunch of pics too and will post up the full review soon.

The quality of the parts and way they are packaged goes beyond ANY parts that I have purchased previously - domestic or import. I can tell lots of engineering and design went into this product.

Bottom line: they work.

Would I buy them? Yes. As soon as they release the dc2 version.

I give them

My complaint: WHERE IS THE DC2 version?!

My other complaint: I wanted to slam them on the internet, but I can't figure out how to - the **** works. Oh well, I'm sure I can find some other company to bash that doesn't perform as it should.
Thanks for the positive & honest review!

We are still working on getting some numbers like before and after slalom times, but have had some difficulty in finding someone to help do this for us any time soon. Maybe in 4- 6 weeks at the rate it's going.

I specifically chose the above Honda-Tech member to evaluate our product because he is a credible member with a lot of posts under his belt. I hope that people will believe his review and believe in our unique invention. I think he really was looking for a reason to bash our product, but I knew we would convert him.

We really do have an outstanding product and people will realize it once others start using them.

Sales have been brisk and we at Korbach Performance are working extremely hard to get this going in the direction it needs. There is much work to be done.

We are in the mode of building on our credibility and actually have been in correspondance with Dave Wallins at Grass Roots Motorsports magazine. We're going to propose picking him up at his location any day/time he wants and take him out for a before and after ride evaluation. It'll only take him 20-30 minutes. I think once he feels the difference...I am totally confident he will write up a positive review.

Below is a more technical explanation as to why the Frame Locks work. I had a chance to rewrite it a bit. It needs to be cleaned up, but I think it explains it....

WHY THE FRAME LOCKS WORK
Frame Locks quickens the steering response by increasing the lateral (side) stiffness of the front frame. Visualize a car going into a sharp turn. As this occurs, the road surface exerts a lateral load to your front tires at the tire patch. In an extreme turn your tires will want to scrub out to the side. The lateral load of the tires will translate a lateral load to the suspension which in turns translates a lateral load to the front frame. The front frame of the car will flex and the time it takes to flex will result in a lagged response of the steering. Although the time it takes to flex may not seem to be significant. In actuality it is. For example at 40 mph, a vehicle is traveling at 58 feet/second. The simple calculations are as follows: [40 miles/hr x 5280 ft/mile] / [60 minutes/hour x 60 seconds/minute]) = 58 ft/sec. If stiffening the front frame results in a reduction of flex time of even 1/10th of a second, that translates to 5.8 ft of vehicle travel which is significant.

The Civic is great car and the rigidity of its chassis is above par for it’s price class. However, it was not designed by the OEM to be a high performance car. That’s why there is a huge after market industry to cater to driving enthusiasts wanting more out of their Civics.

The front lateral stiffness of the Civic has a lot of opportunity for improvement. It is by far the “weakest link in the chain” for chassis design. The current architecture relies on the lower radiator support to transfer the lateral load from the left front rail to the right front rail. Since the lower radiator support is at a lower elevation than the front rails, the load path takes a zig zag and that is a very inefficient structural design for high performance expectations. A close look at the lower radiator support will also indicate that the fore aft section thickness is quite narrow. Because of this, it does not yield that much stiffness when loaded laterally for the rails. Ideally the way to efficiently transfer the lateral load of the right rail to the left rail is to do this on the same plane. It just so happens that the bumper beam is at the same plane. Unfortunately, the attachment stiffness to the frame rails is very weak. This is designed in this manner to reduce cost and ease the assembly to assure fit and finish. High performance cars have stiffer attachments in this area.

Basically, the Frame Locks unifies the entire front chassis by effectively tying the front rails together. Professional race cars also have stiff chassis and they do so for this very reason. It’s not always about the suspension. A high performance car also needs a stiff chassis to make the suspension work effectively.

HERE'S SOME REVIEWS FROM CLUBSI MEMBERS. NOTE THAT THE FOUNDER , MODERATORS AND RACERS EVALUATED THEM. They are long time members

http://forums.clubsi.com/showf...art=1


Thanks Honda-Tech.


David Lawson
Korbach Performance
"Building the Perfect Ride"


Old 09-01-2004, 05:09 PM
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Default Re: Korbach Frame Locks tested by yours truly... w0w (Nishant)

One more thing.

The install is very simple and should take 1-2 hours. You have to have the proper lighting and power drill. The feed back from everyone was it was easy.


Thanks


David Lawson
Korbach Performance
"Building the Perfect Ride"
Old 09-01-2004, 06:05 PM
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Default Re: Korbach Frame Locks tested by yours truly... w0w (Solid_Ride)

Solid_Ride, you need to release a model for 94-01 Integras. If you think sales are brisk now, you ain't seen nothing yet.

Good job on a putting out a product that seems to actually work. I'll admit, I was extremely skeptical at first.
Old 09-01-2004, 06:12 PM
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Default Re: Korbach Frame Locks tested by yours truly... w0w (Solid_Ride)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Solid_Ride &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Thanks for the positive & honest review!
</TD></TR></TABLE>



Sorry guys I'm not on this bandwagon yet! Not a big believer in butt accelerometers.

-Chris
Old 09-01-2004, 06:28 PM
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Default Re: Korbach Frame Locks tested by yours truly... w0w (ccfries)

I want pictures. What the hell is this thing.
Old 09-01-2004, 09:33 PM
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Default Re: Korbach Frame Locks tested by yours truly... w0w (FormulaGSR)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by FormulaGSR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I want pictures. What the hell is this thing.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Go to https://www.korbachperformance.com.

The parts really don't look like much and that's one reason that people are skeptical. But they work...very well. It is a matter of time before they become accepted. But I think it will catch on very quick.

Thanks

David Lawson
Korbach Performance
"Building the Perfect Ride"
Old 09-01-2004, 09:36 PM
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Send me a set for the DC2/4 chassis I'll install them durring an auto-x at a local go-kart track and give a nice before/after run comparison

Please.....
Old 09-01-2004, 09:50 PM
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Default Re: Korbach Frame Locks tested by yours truly... w0w (tsunami_zc)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tsunami_zc &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">How much do they weigh ? </TD></TR></TABLE>

Not including nuts and bolts. The left one weighs in at a mere 13 ounces. The right one is the same. Unimagineable that they could make a difference. But they absolutely do. They work because the engineers at Korbach understand vehicle dynamics and did extensive research on this.

We sell them with a money back guarantee because we are confident that people will no way go back to stock. No matter what you've done to your car, it is still reminscent of and economy car.

We got Honda Tuning magazine on board and they put us on the cover of their September issue "Best Handling Upgrade You Don't Know About". People have suggested that we bribed them to do that. We did not. If they promoted a bad product as a "Best Handling Upgrade..." on the cover and it turned out to be mediocre, they would lose an incredible amount of credibility and that will turn people away from buying in the future. I think this is pretty common sense. I understand the Slick 50 comparision, but as I recalled, they did not get on the front cover and I recalled that it was more of a paid advertisment that looked like an article. I do believe that you can find ways to compensate a magazine to get them to spin a product in a more favorable light, but I don't think you can get them to lie. That would be too blatant and obvious.

Here's some links to the magazine:

http://members.aol.com/ggunitcivicsi/fl01.jpg
http://members.aol.com/ggunitcivicsi/fl02.jpg
http://members.aol.com/ggunitcivicsi/fl03.jpg
http://members.aol.com/ggunitcivicsi/fl04.jpg
http://members.aol.com/ggunitcivicsi/fl05.jpg
http://members.aol.com/ggunitcivicsi/fl06.jpg


We also recognized that people here at Honda-Tech hold Grass Roots Motorsports magazine in higher regard. So we contacted Dave Wallins at the magazine and he contacted us and is definitely interested in checking our Frame Locks. We'll take him on a ride evaluation and he will be a believer. I know this because this improvement is like night and day.


I am looking for help to get the slalom before and after times. I need someone that is an experienced Racer with a 6th gen Civic. I need this person to evaluate our Frame Locks and can not find anyone willing unless I wait another 4 - 6 weeks.

Help me find this person on Honda-Tech so I can present the data here. That's what people want.


Thanks


David Lawson
Korbach Performance
"Building the Perfect Ride"
Old 09-01-2004, 10:04 PM
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Default Re: Korbach Frame Locks tested by yours truly... w0w (ccfries)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ccfries &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">



Sorry guys I'm not on this bandwagon yet! Not a big believer in butt accelerometers.

-Chris</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yes. I am struggling to find someone to do some time trials to qauntify this.

I know it is difficult to believe, but 99% of all ride and handling work is done by pure subjective ride evaluations. When prototype vehicles become available, the ride engineer takes it on the test tracks and roads and evaluates various configuration almost entirely by subjective ride. Throughout the years, many have tried using accelerometers and they do work (not as well as you think), but it really bogs down the development iteration turn over dramatically. I know that magazines publish skid pad #'s and so forth, but that's not how they are developed. The subjective ride is king and trumps data every single time. But that is not to say that engineering tools are not used. In fact there is heavy use of math based tools such as finite element analysis and vibration testing (modal analysis).

Also keep in mind that if this were a hoax, we could easily make up the numbers. Take a look at the claims induction kits and exhaust kits make. They never prove tobe even close to being true on the dynos. Why? Because they made it up because people like numbers.

This is not a subtle improvement. It is immediate and like night and day.

David Lawson
Korbach Performance
"Building the Perfect Ride"

Old 09-01-2004, 11:33 PM
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Default Re: Korbach Frame Locks tested by yours truly... w0w (Black R)

Very good guerilla marketing.

You don't even have to sponsor Honda-tech to advertise on here with this post
Old 09-02-2004, 05:29 AM
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Default Re: Korbach Frame Locks tested by yours truly... w0w (odave)



great review Ken - thanks for posting. Can't wait to try these out on my ITR...

Come on Korbach - make a DC-2 version! Look how much people pay for C pillar bars, strut bars, etc - if this product works as well as the buzz is saying for DC2, your sales will be HUGE!
Old 09-02-2004, 07:14 AM
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Default Re: Korbach Frame Locks tested by yours truly... w0w (Black R)

HOw much $$$ are we looking at dropping on the Frame Locks?

Awesome product


Modified by B18C-Rsi at 4:35 PM 9/2/2004
Old 09-02-2004, 08:53 AM
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Default Re: Korbach Frame Locks tested by yours truly... w0w (B18C-Rsi)

If this product can improve on God's mighty and already PERFECT FF creation....THE ITR.....

I'll take a set...
Old 09-02-2004, 11:14 AM
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Default Re: Korbach Frame Locks tested by yours truly... w0w (Philly_NBP_R)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Philly_NBP_R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

great review Ken - thanks for posting. Can't wait to try these out on my ITR...

Come on Korbach - make a DC-2 version! Look how much people pay for C pillar bars, strut bars, etc - if this product works as well as the buzz is saying for DC2, your sales will be HUGE!</TD></TR></TABLE>

Okay. We will, but need some test candidates.

Anyone want to be our first Study Candidate? Criteria: 1) You must be located near the San Francisco Bay area. Being close to Foster City is a bonus 2) Nice if you are an active member and carry some clout such that when you evaluate our product, people will beleive you 3) You must have some aftermarket suspension upgrades in your car 4) for the initial development, you must allow us to have your car for 1 week. We'll pay for the car rental.

Anyone interested email us on info@korbachperformance.com

The first study candidate even gets some Korbach stock. We have a great product. Can develop for many other cars. Have more product ideas and will be exporting to other countries. We're well funded and managed. We expect good things to come.

Thanks!

David Lawson
Korbach Performance
"Building the Perfect Ride"


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