Terrabomb

<FONT SIZE="large"><u>UPDATED NOV 14th 2004</u></FONT>

Need some Help,
I wanted to start this thread for all of the do it yourself people on Hon. At this time I myself do not know how to weld or have welded anything before. My setup is a 93 Civic Hatch with a d16z6 in it. I'm going to be running a T25.
The whole point of this post is that I want to have my buddy weld me up an Equal length manifold so I can cut costs. What I am looking for is what everyone thinks would be needed to complete this project?

<u>So far my list is as follows:</u>
1 - D16z6 Exhaust Manifold Flange
1 - T25 Adapter Plate or Flange
12 - 1.5"ID 90 Degree Elbows. 304L 40 Schedule MCMaster-Carr Part #45605K515
1 - A bit of Same ID/OD/Type of metal as the bends for extending the outer tubes to clear the inner ones

What I am aiming for is something of this shape/look:


OR this

Or even this. Yes its OBX design, but I'd do it with much thicker metal

If pressed for Money Do one of these



<U>
Common Questions and Answers:</U>Question #1: For a D series. What Diameter Tubing do you think should be used in creating such a manifold?
Answer: 1.5" I/D should easily do the job. When you get larger the manifold is just going to weigh more.

Question #2: Do you think a DIY job could be sufficient and useful for a turbo setup. Provided the collected flange inside was smooth and not Shady like SSautochrome units.
Answer: Yes, a DIY manifold has been used to produce over 200whp easily. Look around HT, HMT, Turbod16, etc and you will find good examples of these.

Question #3: Would you think I would need a prefab'd collector or make one using a box type Shape?
Answer: A collector is most effecient in the 4 into 1 style. Although having the tubes merge into a box like collector could also work but the flow wouldn't be as good as the tube collector.

Question #4: How do I make this so called Collector?
Answer: The collector is made using a large peice of tubing and a jig. What is a Jig you ask? Think of a Jig as a mold in which you place your metal to cut it. The Jig allows you to perform the same cuts on each peice of metal consistently. Jig design is one of the most secret parts of collector making I find. Unfortunately.

<U>COLLECTOR FLANGE PICTURES</U>
Burns - Stainless



Legendboy






B18C1CYA



2point2 (Good Example of how collector should meet the turbo flange)

[img]https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v485/2point2/Picture022.jpg[img]

<u>HOW TO MAKE A COLLECTOR:</u>
After seeing a couple of post asking how to do so and end up with replies such as "It's a secret how to make them things, but we can sell you one" replies from a guy representing Burnstainlesssteel, I felt intrigued to do this. I'm fairly new to CAD but manage to whip this up. I'm sure lot of you guys already know this but this is just for **** and giggles.

Here is your tube to start with.


Simply cut it like this


Here is what it looks like from the front


Then make the same cut on the front side, if the tube was square, this two cut would be perpendicular to each other in a way.


It should look like this after all the cutting.



Top View

Bottom View

Roughly put together. Now you see don't you?

<U>DIY MANIFOLD PICTURES</U>
The One





B18C1CYA

Beater

Legendboy


98Ctr





Modified by Terrabomb at 4:18 PM 11/14/2004


Modified by Terrabomb at 4:36 PM 11/14/2004


Modified by Terrabomb at 4:40 PM 11/14/2004


Modified by Terrabomb at 7:03 PM 11/15/2004

B18C1CYA

you are on the right track with the 90 degree bends from mcmaster car, now for the flanges get in touch with sam at http://www.bmcrace.com/ his flanges are sick, your colletor is where it might get tricky for you. what kinda welding are you going to do on your mani?

Terrabomb

As far as I know. I can get basically any type of welding done. He can do aluminum welding for sure, so I'm sure other kinds of welds he can pull off. Is there a certain type of weld that I should be looking for when its welded?

B18C1CYA

tig is the best for a manifold it will be the best choice for strength, you can mig it though i would use stainless mig wire also,

BROOD

It is not as easy as it looks to build that manifold, but you will learn ALOT after some trial runs and mistakes. I suggest doing it or at least giving it a try. I would rather build my own manifold than buy one.....oh wait I do that anyways.
If your having someone weld it for you I suggest TIG welding over MIG.

At least be involved with fitting the tubes, it will teach you alot of trial and error patience. I find with SS you want the tightest possible fit (air tight if you could). It helps reduce movement when welding. Green zirc-alum grinding disks make removing hard SS material a quick job.

How much HP are you shooting for? The smaller 1 1/4" tube may be fine for your Dseries shooting for street HP levels. What turbo?

Personally, I'm glad to see more and more people thinking of building their own manifolds.....I'm a DIY supporter all the way

Bailhatch

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Terrabomb &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

<u>So far my list is as follows:</u>
1 - D16z6 Exhaust Manifold Flange
1 - T25 Adapter Plate or Flange
12 - 1.5"ID 90 Degree Elbows. 304L 40 Schedule MCMaster-Carr Part #45605K515
1 - A bit of Same ID/OD/Type of metal as the bends for extending the outer tubes to clear the inner ones

What I am aiming for is something of this shape/look:
</TD></TR></TABLE>

for this one you'll need one more 90* to make the two 45*s that come from the headflange on runners 2 and 3.

Pikachu

I'm thinking of doing the same thing, cept I believe the collector is quite hard to do. I'll have to research this some more.

Ekasey

THat why you call us for the collector duh LOL

As far as your materials i wouldn't used 90's most accomplished experienced header builders use U-bends for the great versatility they offer.

As far as thick material 16 ga. 321 is the ideal turbo manifold material.

YOu should also be bracing this manifold properly even though you are using a smaller lighter weight turbo then most

Terrabomb

Thanks to everyone so far that posted about this project.

So I'm going to have to order 14 90's instead of 12

The 304 90's are around $5.30 USD per elbow/buttweld
The 321 90's are around ???? THese are not on the Mcmaster website.

COLLECTORS!!

Elusive EK4 and B18C1CYA.. How much can you guys do collectors for? It doesn't gotta be pretty. My car is total function over form. PM Me with prices if you guys do not want to post prices in the thread specifically.

Thanks in Advance for any more useful Information or discussion.

Terra


Modified by Terrabomb at 6:30 PM 8/12/2004

Pikachu

Yea me too, I wanna know how much you'd charge for a collector.

Sikocivic

I made this one from 2" 90s from MacMaster. Its sort of equal length.


http://www.we-todd-did-racing....D.jpg

mattssi

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Sikocivic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I made this one from 2" 90s from MacMaster. Its sort of equal length.


</TD></TR></TABLE>
hows that working for you. Does it perform decently?

Rocks

Does anyone have a pic of the turbo flange on this. this manfiold looks easy to do

Ekasey

A Merge collector from us (Burns Stainless) would cost near 420.00 with a customer provided flange shaped and welded to the outlet

B18C1CYA

i sell them welded for 130 bucks +shiping any where in the us


Modified by B18C1CYA at 10:05 PM 9/23/2004


Modified by B18C1CYA at 3:40 PM 11/26/2004

Ekasey

Not to try and compete but do yours look like......?






Or if for some reason you have turbo dodge viper or tractor puller etc.





This is a case where you pay for what you get for mroe information on merge colectors and header design please visit our website


http://www.burnsstainless.com

Thanks Casey

B18C1CYA

they are a merge collector, just look up the page aways for the pics, but i think around 400 bucks for a collector it a little out of control if you know what i mean, mine are geard for the diy, and are more afordable for most people

Ekasey

400 bucks is not out of control if you knew what went into them you wouldn't question the price.

Yes yours aren't bad for the price and i understand your target

B18C1CYA

burns stainless is top stuff and , your right there is alot that gos into the collector not to mention desing and tooling,

2point2

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by eLusive ek4 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Not to try and compete but do yours look like......?


</TD></TR></TABLE>

Very nice!.. out of my budget but i was curious as to how thick the stainless is on that?

Ekasey

16 ga. or .065 wall is the thickest we use unless it's for like 6000+hp tractor trailer


but in otherwords 16 is the thickest needed for any race application as long as it is fabricated properly

Terrabomb

Alright. Well I talked to both of you guys, and your both geared for different markets of engine builders. Both offer great products considering the people they are intended for.

Anyone else have some comments on how to do this? I think I can get it mig'd, but I'm suppose to ask for Tig? correct?

Ekasey

Correct

FWDrag

I saw this custom turbo manifold on http://www.Urbanracer.com today. Very clean looking. It looks like it would have great flow and doesnt seem to complex. Im sure any respectable welding shop could make that with no problems.

http://www.urbanracer.com/arti...0&z=3

Thats the style im going for. No need for $260 dollar Burns collectors, although they do make some really nice stuff and i would use them in a heart beat if i had the budget.
Good Luck!

FWDrag

Sorry i forgot to mention i was talking about the manifold on the civic not the miata.