FINALLY -- TURBO MANIFOLD TEST (What happens when a log manifold is changed to a Full Race Manifold?
07-13-2004, 08:58 PM
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FINALLY -- TURBO MANIFOLD TEST (What happens when a log manifold is changed to a Full Race Manifold?
RESULTS: SWAPPING MANIFOLD = ~68.3 whp peak gain before tuning, ~48 whp after tuning, ~49.7 ft/lb before tuning, ~44 ft/lb after tuning
We recently conducted a complete test detailing every possible aspect of the manifold experiment. Using a Stock GSR bottom end, with a JG intake manifold and Full Race Stage 3 turbo kit with 10 psi wastegate spring, no boost controller connected.
Full Race fabricated a traditional log manifold which placed the tubine flange and turbo in the EXACT SAME spot as our ProStreet manifolds. The purpose of this is that we were able to swap manifolds without even having to pull the turbo off of the car. As a result, we used EVERYTHING the same, except for the manifold. same turbo, same wastegate, same downpipe, same exhaust, same intercooler, same oil lines, same EVERYTHING.
We videotaped the test for anyone who needs to see it. Time lapse, done by evan (eluder200k). This video is taken for 1 second every 30 seconds. For anyone who doubts us, we will be happy to post the video.
The results were quite astonishing, but do make a lot of sense. The log manifold spooled the turbo about 250-300 rpm SOONER than the equal length. From ~4700 rpm on the log manifold couldnt even come close.
The solid line is the log manifold, the dotted line is the equal length manifold
....now for the scientific explanation -- what exactly happened and why?
pics of the log manifold used:
Pics of the Full Race Stage 3 Turbo Kit
Modified by Full-Race Geoff at 10:59 PM 7/14/2004
Modified by Full-Race Geoff at 2:13 AM 7/16/2004
We recently conducted a complete test detailing every possible aspect of the manifold experiment. Using a Stock GSR bottom end, with a JG intake manifold and Full Race Stage 3 turbo kit with 10 psi wastegate spring, no boost controller connected.
Full Race fabricated a traditional log manifold which placed the tubine flange and turbo in the EXACT SAME spot as our ProStreet manifolds. The purpose of this is that we were able to swap manifolds without even having to pull the turbo off of the car. As a result, we used EVERYTHING the same, except for the manifold. same turbo, same wastegate, same downpipe, same exhaust, same intercooler, same oil lines, same EVERYTHING.
We videotaped the test for anyone who needs to see it. Time lapse, done by evan (eluder200k). This video is taken for 1 second every 30 seconds. For anyone who doubts us, we will be happy to post the video.
The results were quite astonishing, but do make a lot of sense. The log manifold spooled the turbo about 250-300 rpm SOONER than the equal length. From ~4700 rpm on the log manifold couldnt even come close.
The solid line is the log manifold, the dotted line is the equal length manifold
....now for the scientific explanation -- what exactly happened and why?
pics of the log manifold used:
Pics of the Full Race Stage 3 Turbo Kit
Modified by Full-Race Geoff at 10:59 PM 7/14/2004
Modified by Full-Race Geoff at 2:13 AM 7/16/2004
07-13-2004, 09:31 PM
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Re: (Mpir3)
Hope the log mani's not really restrictive ie small piping used or a particulary narrow passage for the gas to flow thorugh... If not this should be very interesting. 
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07-13-2004, 09:36 PM
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Re: (Arturbo)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Arturbo »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Geoff,
do you have pics of both manifolds?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Id like to see these as well. cant wait for the video
do you have pics of both manifolds?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Id like to see these as well. cant wait for the video
07-13-2004, 09:36 PM
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Re: (Arturbo)
ill get some pics tomorrow. the log just looked like a typical log but had a tunnel collector thing of sorts on it.
There was some interesting stuff, and i had been debating whether or not to post all the info becuase all of the idiots, flamers, haters, arguers and internet cowboys that will be calling foul, telling us our test is useless etc. I have no intentions of hiding anything and i hope everyone will draw their own conclusions from this, however please keep the flaming, name calling and other fun stuff to a minimum. just tech, thanks.
if you think we purposely tried to doctor the test, made a purposely shitty manifold or if we actaully spent 3 days to just trick the readers of h-t, please stay out of my thread.
There was some interesting stuff, and i had been debating whether or not to post all the info becuase all of the idiots, flamers, haters, arguers and internet cowboys that will be calling foul, telling us our test is useless etc. I have no intentions of hiding anything and i hope everyone will draw their own conclusions from this, however please keep the flaming, name calling and other fun stuff to a minimum. just tech, thanks.
if you think we purposely tried to doctor the test, made a purposely shitty manifold or if we actaully spent 3 days to just trick the readers of h-t, please stay out of my thread.
07-13-2004, 09:47 PM
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Re: (Full-Race Geoff)
I would say the log spooled sooner b/c the turbo is closer to the exhaust ports so the exhaust is hotter, thus it spools faster.
07-13-2004, 10:01 PM
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Re: (BoostedGSRBubble)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BoostedGSRBubble »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I would say the log spooled sooner b/c the turbo is closer to the exhaust ports so the exhaust is hotter, thus it spools faster.</TD></TR></TABLE>
We have a natural genius on our hands.
Great to see the advantage the equal length is over the log.
We have a natural genius on our hands.
Great to see the advantage the equal length is over the log.
07-13-2004, 10:41 PM
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Re: (jerseykid609)
haha, this brings back flashbacks of the manifold test we were all trying to get together. Now why such different results from the one RPI did? Didn't his make the same hp but a quicker spool? I dont even remember if he had a log at first it was so long ago.
07-13-2004, 11:35 PM
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Re: (sporkcrx)
Wow...
This is something I alwasy wondered about, since you see people making good power on both styles of manifolds, good to see it's not just all hype ont he EL mani's.
Hopefulyl one day when I get some $$$, I'll upgrade my MaxRev.
This is something I alwasy wondered about, since you see people making good power on both styles of manifolds, good to see it's not just all hype ont he EL mani's.
Hopefulyl one day when I get some $$$, I'll upgrade my MaxRev.
07-14-2004, 01:03 AM
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Re: FINALLY -- TURBO MANIFOLD TEST (What happens when a log manifold is changed to a Full Race Manif
I doubt you, so I guess you'll have to post the video
07-14-2004, 04:20 AM
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Re: FINALLY -- TURBO MANIFOLD TEST (What happens when a log manifold is changed to a Full Race Manif
Glad to see this finally come out, this should be a VERY interesting thread
07-14-2004, 04:34 AM
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Re: FINALLY -- TURBO MANIFOLD TEST (What happens when a log manifold is changed to a Full Race Manif
So truely, what is the advantage of the equal length if the only notable difference is the HP? The reason I point this out is because as we all know turbo cars have the convenience of power on demand, you can run 12psi one day and 18psi the next. You could also run 12psi on the said equal length or ~15psi (or something higher representing aprox 50hp) on the log to make up the difference in efficiency.
People always rave about the full-race design giving them this and that. Until recently I had considered selling my life and trading up from a log for the sole reason of a quicker spool-up but it seems that this move would be incorrect. I'm actually kind of disappointed as I had vision's of spooling 500-800rpm's faster :-D
Now I'm wondering how these two manifolds compare to something like the inline pro or the new love-fab mini-me both of which have something resembling a collector. The advantage to the mini-me may be quicker spool ups than the log due to the very short piping like the log yet the existance of a collector unlike the log - kind of like a best-of-both-worlds sort of thing.
Mini-me:
Borrowed from http://www.lovefab.com
I'm not stating any facts about which/what is better, just trying to stimulate some technical discussion. If we all keep an open mind - there exists the potential to create an even better manifold as a honda-tech community
People always rave about the full-race design giving them this and that. Until recently I had considered selling my life and trading up from a log for the sole reason of a quicker spool-up but it seems that this move would be incorrect. I'm actually kind of disappointed as I had vision's of spooling 500-800rpm's faster :-D
Now I'm wondering how these two manifolds compare to something like the inline pro or the new love-fab mini-me both of which have something resembling a collector. The advantage to the mini-me may be quicker spool ups than the log due to the very short piping like the log yet the existance of a collector unlike the log - kind of like a best-of-both-worlds sort of thing.
Mini-me:
Borrowed from http://www.lovefab.com
I'm not stating any facts about which/what is better, just trying to stimulate some technical discussion. If we all keep an open mind - there exists the potential to create an even better manifold as a honda-tech community
07-14-2004, 05:16 AM
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Re: FINALLY -- TURBO MANIFOLD TEST (What happens when a log manifold is changed to a Full Race Manif
Hell I dont doubt you I just wanna see the video! I love time lapse.
07-14-2004, 05:43 AM
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Re: FINALLY -- TURBO MANIFOLD TEST (What happens when a log manifold is changed to a Full Race Manif
But if the log had a " tunnel collector thing of sorts", then the gasses getting to the turbo would be cooler than what you would see in a typical log setup. Wouldn't that make a difference in top end power? Or am I grasping at straws?
07-14-2004, 06:21 AM
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Re: FINALLY -- TURBO MANIFOLD TEST (What happens when a log manifold is changed to a Full Race Manif
any chance on doing a compare with a fr equal lentght and a inline pro log?
good stuff regardless. kudo's to full race to taking the time to do it. just seems liek for the best results inline pro(which seems to be the best) would be the target log mani.
good stuff regardless. kudo's to full race to taking the time to do it. just seems liek for the best results inline pro(which seems to be the best) would be the target log mani.
