b17integra

huumm i saw this on e bay what does every one think of this thing.. it's intresting. will it work.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...46098

nickgmiller04

looks like it would work...i dont know tho. get one, try it, then come back and tell us what its like

b16supertuner

interesting!!

therealpoorboy

anyone ever heard of a windage tray? honda cranks dont ride through enough oil to worry about.

StyleTEG

It still would work. Its the same idea as why micropolishing your crank can show gains.

I bought one, but havn't had a chance to install it as I would like to do a before/after dyno.

Its and older trick, but it still has plenty of use on cars today.

civicguy

srt-4 comes with them from factory

CRX_VTEC

the scraper should work. I emailed this seller last year when they were selling them a bit cheaper. the seemed pretty cool and was willing to cut me a deal on 3 of them. They make them for B16's and B18c1 as well as b18b blocks. I'll email them again if you guys want to start a group buy. I'm sure they can cut some type of deal since they offered me a deal for only 3.

therealpoorboy

if it made a difference every honda drag racer would have one. even if it free'd up 1 hp but it dosnt. if you want less oil splashing around try to pull some vacuum in the motor. that will make power.

StyleTEG

No one up until this point has offered a kit for our cars. Which probably explains the lack of anyone using them.

You are refering to two seperate things. Vacuum in the crankcase helps remove blowby vapors and improves ring seal, basicly improving the PCV system.

This removes excess oil drapping the crank which creates windage.

There is no reason it wouldn't work, physics supports it. Why make guesses saying it wouldn't just because it has been "discovered" yet?

Muckman

iTrader: (2)

Wouldn't a windage tray do the same thing if you already have one? If you look at their website it just stops the oil cloud from circulating which is exactly what a windage tray does. If the crank scraper sits between the block and oil pan then the windage tray still sits between the scraper and crank preventing the scraper from being effective.

hondaboyB18C1

most honda come with a factory windage tray , seems to work okay.

LSVTEC 91 Civic

Intresting. Buy it and tell us how well it works

StyleTEG

The windage tray doesn't sit as close as a crank scraper. They may have the same purpose, but that doesn't mean the OEM windage tray is effective.

non

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by therealpoorboy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">if it made a difference every honda drag racer would have one. even if it free'd up 1 hp but it dosnt. if you want less oil splashing around try to pull some vacuum in the motor. that will make power.</TD></TR></TABLE>

every honda drag racer used to not run electric water pumps, no honda drag racer has valveless heads yet even though they can increase power as much as 30% or more

forced00si

a crank scraper only fights oil roping effect. the windage tray controls splash. crank scrapers free up 10-15hp on small block chevy's that only rev to 6500rpm. the potential is there for the honda to free up more because of the high operating range of the engines.

Stock@$$GSR

free up more than 10-15 hp?!?! that sounds a bit too good to be true

forced00si

they got a big crank and it sits in oil so some one has to try it on a honda and see. it sounds good to me too. just dont know if it will work that good on a honda

R-Toyz.com

We can't really tell if this product adds the claimed 10-15 HP (maybe if you're running molasses for engine oil)....

My question would be if that this can cause any bad effect on the motor?

For the price and how easy it is to put in it I don't see any reasons not to have one...given that it wont hurt the motor. Is this a near effective alternative to knife-edging the stock crank too?

Kevin Johnson

A Honda race team got back to us and reported 1.5% to 3% hp gains with the D16 depending on rpm. That is in line with the dyno pulls with the Suzuki G10 engine ~3% increase in hp -- power started improving at ~2750 rpm to max output for that cam (5300 rpm). The Suzuki already had a full windage tray and power improved. The D16 has a massive girdle structure that many people thought would minimize windage losses. Remember that these percentages are for engines in cars strapped to roller dynos. Moving cars lose a higher percentage of their power to windage so the % returns would improve.

Kevin


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rtzcom &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">We can't really tell if this product adds the claimed 10-15 HP (maybe if you're running molasses for engine oil)....

My question would be if that this can cause any bad effect on the motor?

For the price and how easy it is to put in it I don't see any reasons not to have one...given that it wont hurt the motor. Is this a near effective alternative to knife-edging the stock crank too?</TD></TR></TABLE>

hybrid_vtec

I posted a question about this a few monthes ago! I know they have used on domestics engines for years and they proved effective, so I dont see why they wouldnt work on one of our cars!

R-Toyz.com

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Kevin Johnson &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">A Honda race team got back to us and reported 1.5% to 3% hp gains with the D16 depending on rpm. That is in line with the dyno pulls with the Suzuki G10 engine ~3% increase in hp -- power started improving at ~2750 rpm to max output for that cam (5300 rpm). The Suzuki already had a full windage tray and power improved. The D16 has a massive girdle structure that many people thought would minimize windage losses. Remember that these percentages are for engines in cars strapped to roller dynos. Moving cars lose a higher percentage of their power to windage so the % returns would improve.

Kevin


</TD></TR></TABLE>

Excellent, but how about gains on a B series motor?

Used2beAb16

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hybrid_vtec &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I posted a question about this a few monthes ago! I know they have used on domestics engines for years and they proved effective, so I dont see why they wouldnt work on one of our cars!</TD></TR></TABLE>

Honda setups dont place the crank in the oil as much as the domestic v8-s.

Kevin Johnson

I honestly cannot say -- we did give B scrapers to race teams saying they would dyno them but we have not heard anything back. There have been engine building shops giving multiple repeat business on the B-series, however.

If you know of someone serious that will run back to back dyno pulls with and without a scraper we would be happy to send one out. As an aside, I sent out a Ford Zetec sump with the zero-clearance teflon scraper array to a racer but have not had feedback on that yet either. I could make one up for a b-series but I would need to borrow a stock windage tray.


"Excellent, but how about gains on a B series motor?"

Kevin Johnson

The Suzuki engine we dynoed has a full windage tray that virtually isolates the sump reservoir from the rotating assembly -- more so than the Honda, I'd guess. The oil level lies completely beneath it even if you include the oil that would normally be in the filter.

It is important to remember that a windage cloud will form even without the rotating assembly physically contacting the sump reservoir. In a moving vehicle the sump oil will, most likely, be contacting the spinning bottom end making a much worse windage cloud.


"Honda setups dont place the crank in the oil as much as the domestic v8-s."

WrongWD

iTrader: (1)

this would also be very helpful for roadracing, in the same way that a trap door would, by keeping oil in the pickup area