SubTitle

A buddy of mine recently picked up Type R cams for his 02 RSX-S. It's his 2nd mod, he has a AEM CAI, any info/reviews about these cams, How does the motor respond to these cams (HP estimates...??) can these be dropped in without valve train upgrade? (like R cams into GSRs,b16s ect...). Also are these harder to put in then b-series cams?

k20whitevic

Yes, they "drop in", you'll need an ITR IM, as well as Hondata's K20A reflash or the K-Pro to really utilize them.

Kal

using itr pistons will help too.

SubTitle

what about just droping them in without doing any other mods?

k20whitevic

Tell him to at least get the reflash, because if I remember right without it you will gain a little...but with the reflash, you'll gain a lot. Granted a race header of some kind along with an exhaust wouldn't hurt either.

You could forget about the PRC Pistons and you could use the TODA headgasket instead.

lube

I wouldn't bother with those cams. They aren't much better than stock type s cams.

aznboysrfr

you may want to put some new valve springs in if you go with hondata ...

6SPD_EK

iTrader: (2)

can you take some pictures of the cams... how do they differ in appearance from type-s cams?

dwnshft02

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by lube &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I wouldn't bother with those cams. They aren't much better than stock type s cams.</TD></TR></TABLE>


Yea I'd go with a Toda kit

k20whitevic

http://forums.clubrsx.com/showthread.php?t=163786

Check out that thread and tell me their not worth it.


Modified by k20whitevic at 5:28 PM 6/2/2004

lube

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by k20whitevic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">http://forums.clubrsx.com/showthread.php?t=163786

Check out that thread and tell me their not worth it.


Modified by k20whitevic at 5:28 PM 6/2/2004</TD></TR></TABLE>

Can you not read? That thread shows that most of the power gains are from hondata and the itr manifold.

How about someone I know was running the Mugen ecu(which is supposed to be for a type r) i/h/e put down 196whp w/ type s cams. Then he dropped in itr cams and made 200whp and lost a couple ft.lbs. of torque.

So like I said earlier, they're not worth it.

k20whitevic

Let us add this up....

ITR Cams - 400 to 800, ITR Manifold - 250 to 300, Hondata Reflash - 595. This totals 1470.00 (I took the middle cost for the ones that could vary.)

TODA Engine kit - 2350 without the ITR Manifold which they recommend.

This is a very cost effective mod for someone on a budget that is happy with ~210whp.

Where the hell does that thread say that the "ITR and Hondata" are making all of the power? Hondata is needed to utilitze the cams fully with their longer duration, same with the ITR manifold which actually allows those cams to not run out of breath in the higher rpms...

The Mugen ECU isn't for total gains man...it's for midrange power, road racing kind of thing, not drag racing!

lube

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by k20whitevic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Let us add this up....

ITR Cams - 400 to 800, ITR Manifold - 250 to 300, Hondata Reflash - 595. This totals 1470.00 (I took the middle cost for the ones that could vary.)

TODA Engine kit - 2350 without the ITR Manifold which they recommend.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

What's your point? Where did I say anything about Toda? No one has released a good cam yet, so why compare these sucky ones?

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by k20whitevic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">This is a very cost effective mod for someone on a budget that is happy with ~210whp.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

I shoul break 210 in a couple of weeks with stock cams and manifold. I guy on clubrsx already made over 210 on stock cams as well.

I'm sure you know who edo is, right? Well he only made 215whp with type r cams and he had pulleys, plasma coils, itr tb, itr im, hondata..... Get the point yet?


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by k20whitevic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Where the hell does that thread say that the "ITR and Hondata" are making all of the power? Hondata is needed to utilitze the cams fully with their longer duration, same with the ITR manifold which actually allows those cams to not run out of breath in the higher rpms...

</TD></TR></TABLE>

I guess you don't comprehend what you read too well, do you

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by k20whitevic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The Mugen ECU isn't for total gains man...it's for midrange power, road racing kind of thing, not drag racing! </TD></TR></TABLE>


Is this a joke? Please oh please explain to me how it is tuned for midrange and not for "drag racing".

Oh and do road racing cars not go to redline or am I missing something?

lube

Oh and don't take anything I say personally I'm not trying to start a flame war

k20whitevic

Alright, I don't know how to do the cool *** quote thing you did, so help a brother out.

First point taken, just using it to compare to what's out at the moment.

Not saying 210whp isn't impossible with stock cams and manifold, but you're telling me that at this current point in the game as to where the K20A(2) is at as far as parts that are out there, this is a fairly easy way to do achieve those numbers. Less work, more play.

LOL, I think I understood it well, even read it a couple of times over after you wrote that. If you can teach me something, I'm always willing to listen.

I have not seen one person with the Mugen ECU have very good peak numbers, their mid range has been very good on the other hand. If you were to ask me, peak HP isn't where it's at, everywhere else is. Not saying road racers don't live in the high rpm range, but if their top end lacked some, but it was made up for in the midrange, I'd be happy.

SubTitle

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by k20whitevic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Yes, they "drop in", you'll need an ITR IM, as well as Hondata's K20A reflash or the K-Pro to really utilize them.</TD></TR></TABLE>
any links to get info on these things, main thing is he is on a budget and was gunna see if he can just drop them in for now with no major trouble, and get all that stuff later to bring out the real power of the cams.....

lube

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by k20whitevic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Alright, I don't know how to do the cool *** quote thing you did, so help a brother out.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Just copy and paste and then delete what you don't want in the quote.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by k20whitevic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

LOL, I think I understood it well, even read it a couple of times over after you wrote that. If you can teach me something, I'm always willing to listen.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

In that particular case, the guy had a filter, header, and exhaust. Then he added a cai(that puts you in the 190's), hondata(there's 200 and trust me, as I speak from personal experience), itr mani(are we still counting?) and then cams. I'm telling you they suck not b/c I like to argue(well I guess I do ) but b/c they are truly a waste of money. Plus we know that the lift is the same, supposedly the primary lobes are the same, so all you are getting is a few extra degrees of duration on the vtec lobes. And it seems to be nothing dramatic compared to the type s cams. So why go throught the trouble of installing cams that only make a few more hp and shift the powerband up a few hundred rpm?

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by k20whitevic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I have not seen one person with the Mugen ECU have very good peak numbers, their mid range has been very good on the other hand. If you were to ask me, peak HP isn't where it's at, everywhere else is. Not saying road racers don't live in the high rpm range, but if their top end lacked some, but it was made up for in the midrange, I'd be happy. </TD></TR></TABLE>

The only way I see to tune for more midrange at the expense of top end is cam timing. Now on a b-series w/ a fixed intake cam, you have to decide where you want the power. Not so on the K. You have vtc so there is no need to sacrifice midrange for top end, or vice versa.

Oh and most of the Mugen ECU setups seem to have a much better A/F throughout the power band than the hondata flashed cars.

Justin

k20whitevic

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by lube &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
In that particular case, the guy had a filter, header, and exhaust. Then he added a cai(that puts you in the 190's), hondata(there's 200 and trust me, as I speak from personal experience), itr mani(are we still counting?) and then cams. I'm telling you they suck not b/c I like to argue(well I guess I do ) but b/c they are truly a waste of money. </TD></TR></TABLE>

First off, thanks for enlightening me on how to do this. Second, there are people out there who have dyno'd at 180(+) from just a CAI, then with a race header of some kind, exhaust and hondata at or near 200. If you're just going reflashes I haven't seen anyone hit 210 yet, maybe I haven't looked hard enough, don't know. ITR manifold does very little for actual HP gains, something like 1-2 in the upper RPM's, but getting that air to a camshaft that can utilize the fact that there is more air coming in, then you'll get gains.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by lube &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Plus we know that the lift is the same, supposedly the primary lobes are the same, so all you are getting is a few extra degrees of duration on the vtec lobes. And it seems to be nothing dramatic compared to the type s cams. So why go throught the trouble of installing cams that only make a few more hp and shift the powerband up a few hundred rpm?</TD></TR></TABLE>

I agree with this, but the extra duration is obviously helping out the powerband if they're still making power above the A2 cams. I know that the extra duration isn't always a good thing, but in this case it definately isn't hurting anything.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by lube &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The only way I see to tune for more midrange at the expense of top end is cam timing. Now on a b-series w/ a fixed intake cam, you have to decide where you want the power. Not so on the K. You have vtc so there is no need to sacrifice midrange for top end, or vice versa.

Oh and most of the Mugen ECU setups seem to have a much better A/F throughout the power band than the hondata flashed cars.

Justin</TD></TR></TABLE>

I agree also, especially with the A/F's, but that doesn't explain why the Mugen ECUs top end is lacking where as Hondata's seem to have then same or better numbers, and their midrange has been below or the same. I also thought that Hondata had a Mugen ECU when they were developing their K20A reflash?

Once again, I'm always willing to learn.

lube

Ok last thing I'm gonna say. I know two people in ATL that have type r cams, one has the mugen ecu(jdm 4-2, vision 2-1, don't know about im), one has hondata itr reflash(itr im, toda header). The first guy made 203 and the second one made 204. These were on a dynojet and they were SAE corrected. Don't forget to always see what kind of dyno the numbers were on and what kind of correction factor was used. Lots of people use dynopack numbers or either they go on a dynojet and use STD numbers. I made over 210 STD, but once we changed it to SAE it went down to 204

Type r cams=

SuperTwinz

From Club RSX:

before:
spoon drop in filter
catback
spoon header

after:
ITR CAMS
ITR intake mani
injen CAI
Hondata ITR flash
Hondata gasket




Modified by SuperTwinz at 8:00 PM 6/6/2004

lube

You have to be kidding me. Did you not read this thread?

TheGSRGuy

Until someone posts the specs for Type S and Type R cams, why speculate?

k20whitevic

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by lube &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You have to be kidding me. Did you not read this thread?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Much agreed.

SuperTwinz

K20A type R DC5 Cam profiles :

Cam lift : 6.9mm IN / 6.5mm EX
VTEC cam lift : 12mm IN / 10.5mm EX
VTEC Intake cam profile :
Open : ATDC 12º (VTC max. advance 50º)
Close : ABDC 77º (VTC max advance 50º)
VTEC Exhaust cam profile :
Open : ATDC 15º
Close : BBDC 45º
Primary Intake cam profile :
Open : 25º / 30º ATDC (VTC max advance 50º)
Close : 45º ABDC (VTC max advance 50º)
Primary Exhaust cam profile :
Close : BTDC 45º
Open : BBDC 30 º/25º

lube

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SuperTwinz &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
VTEC Exhaust cam profile :
Open : ATDC 15º
Close : BBDC 45º
</TD></TR></TABLE>

cam timing owns you, huh?