*A MUST READ for those who are new to heavily modding your Prelude*
11-19-2003, 10:41 PM
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*A MUST READ for those who are new to heavily modding your Prelude*
First of all, I reserve the right to change my information and contradict myself at any one point in time during this post. Anything stated here, of course, has no direct reflection on any shop (hahahahahaha) that I have done business with. Take everything written with a grain of salt, as most of this is personal opinion mixed with a LOT of personal experience and bad luck. I also invite those with more than 2 years of high performance Prelude driving to contribute/contradict/or submit your own opinions in any way shape or form.
My experience comes from 5 years, God knows how many performance shops and machine shops, and close to $50,000. I’ve probably blown up more engines than a lot of you have ever seen. I use stainless steel valves as paperweights, forged pistons with forged rods as book ends, micropolished and balanced cranks as boat anchors, and used clutches as frisbees. All that stuff is $$$$$$$$ that is now trash. I chalk it up to learning experience, and I’m going to try to pass some of it on to you. My learning was trial and error. An expensive choice, but I've gained a priceless amount of brain goodies.
I guess this post is for those of you who are a little newer to the world of heavily modifying Preludes. Most of the Prelude owners that are modifying their rides will stick to minor bolt on’s, a few electrical toys, and some look good stuff. These things present their own problems, but they’re minor in comparison to what some people will encounter.
Where I’m aiming to hit is the crowd of folks who just bought a Prelude, or have owned one for a while, and have decided that 14 second timeslips and cold air intakes just aren’t enough. I have to say, even those who are simply rebuilding a motor or having it built should read this and take some of it to heart.
A lot of people come in and out of this forum with dreams and ideas. They have grand visions of beating other cars on the track, street, or at a show. This is terrific. I encourage EVERYONE who has a goal or dream to go for it with all you have. HOWEVER, I have to state one thing: BE SMART AND REALISTIC. The following information is collected from years of dreaming, building, blowing stuff up, and dreaming even bigger. I’m here to tell you that it’s not as easy as it looks. It’s not as easy as some of us make it seem. I ran the Gumball and I have a lifetime of memories that only a handful of living people can say they've had... but it cost me dearly. I've sat in a Ferrari F-50,and I've had blue flames spit at me by the fastest car in the world. I've met and partied with some of the coolest rich people alive (and seen some stuff you would never believe), and I've ridden in one of the fastest porsches I've seen or heard of. But it came at a price.
One of the most important things to remember is that Honda’s have very VERY tight clearances. This is how they can run 200,000 miles and still keep going. These motors were built correctly from the factory, and to tinker with it requires someone with more than a basic knowledge of Chevy 350’s.
When you decide to modify your Prelude beyond simple stuff, you’re making a choice that 95% of the time you CAN’T back out of. If you tear down a motor, bore it and sleeve it you have just dedicated yourself to a lifetime of aftermarket stuff. If you port your head, or mill your head, you can’t just say “well, maybe that wasn’t a good idea” and glue that metal back on. Make sure that when you take off on your adventure you are damn well sure of what you’re doing and prepared to take the bad with the good. Your rollercoaster has just begun, and the good times will be great, and the bad times will make you want to put a bullet through your car, then your head.
That out of the way I think it’s time to get to the meat and potatoes of what I’m going to say. Trial and error is a part of this game. Get used to it, and plan for it.
An important step in building your car is choosing the right shop. Whether or not you realize this depends on your studying habits, but ALL SHOPS will have someone who has a complaint against it. EVERY SINGLE ONE. You WILL NOT find a true performance shop with a 100% satisfied customer list. You have to face this fact if you decide to have someone build your motor. You also have to face that when taking steps like you’re about to take you WILL at some point in time have a shop to **** you off. You WILL be “Screwed” at some point in time. You may be overcharged, or have a part messed up that you have to pay for… but rest assured something, sometime, somewhere will happen to you. Every time you hand the keys or drop off something you own to someone else you are rolling the dice. The very same shop that built your friends motor PERFECT may set your ring end gap wrong. That same shop that your brother used for HIS turbo install may have done a flawless job for him, but you may throw engine codes for 6 months.
Each screw up or broken part will have a different scenario to it. Sometimes you may be dealing with a shady shop, other times it may be an innocent simple oversight that cost you $1,000, or $10,000. Nothing, and I mean NOTHING, goes as planned 100% of the time. This is something you have to make allowances for.
My tips for dealing with shops:
#1. GET IT IN WRITING.
-For the love of God, I don’t care if it’s your own damn neighbor, make him write it down. Warranties, estimates, parts and labor… get it all in writing and KEEP IT. If, God forbid, you end up in a situation that goes to court, this will save YOUR ***. If they tell you one thing over the phone, double check it when you get to the shop.
#2. Overconfident owners = BAD NEWS.
-People who say “I can do that with my eyes closed” or “done it 200 times with no complaints” or “I can build it in a day and have it outrun nearly everything” are not to be trusted. They may not be TRYING to lie to you, but dumb luck runs out and it may run out on YOU.
#3. Promises = BAD NEWS
- No performance shop owner will make a promise to you. No one who is out to help YOU will “promise 11’s.” If a shop promises 20,000 miles, make them back it up with a written warranty. Promises are only as good as the person who gives them.
#4. If things go sour, TAKE NOTES and TAKE PICTURES
- When you go to a shop after something goes amiss, bring a witness. Take pictures of what has gone wrong if you can. If you talk to them on the phone, write down what they tell you. Keep a log of everything. Dates and times you’ve talked with someone, who it was, what they said. If you talk in person, leave a pen and paper in the car and write it down when you leave. Like I said above, a paper trail will save your butt. When it comes down to someone’s word against your word, “he with the most evidence wins.” If you suspect that you’re being “had” halfway through the transaction, then start then. If it turns out ok then you can toss what you’ve written. No harm, no foul.
#5. Your best friend who owns the shop isn’t your best friend when something goes wrong.
- Been there, done that. I mean my absolute BEST friend gave me the shaft with no lubrication. I made a bad decision not to sue because I thought he was an OK guy. I was wrong. Just because he’s cool and you think he’ll never do you wrong doesn’t mean when he won’t stiff you when $10,000 is on the line. $10,000 is a lot of change to simple eat, and I don’t care WHO you are.
#6. My ultimate advice is look at my Screen name. TRUST NO ONE
- That may sound harsh, but you’re the only person you can trust. If you can do it, then I suggest you do it. If you can’t, then cover your butt with the suggestions above. Even YOU are gonna screw up. The best mechanics in the world make mistakes. It happens, that’s why they’re called mistakes… if not, they’d be called “on purposes.”
Next on my list are going to be turbos, blowers, and NAWZ. (Power adders)
These bolt-ons carry a heavy responsibility with them. Used properly these little treats will give you some serious fun. One twitch of something bad, and you’re looking at a world of hurt.
First and foremost on my list is TUNING. DYNO DYNO DYNO. I can’t stress it enough. When you use a power adder you’re playing with fire. Your only insurance against burning yourself is making sure that when it’s installed that everything is running like it should be, and the ONLY way to do this correctly and safely is on a dyno. Gauges work wonders and shouldn’t be left out, but dyno time with a professional can never be beat. IN fact, gauges are essential in my book, although they might not be in other peoples top list.
This brings me to my next issue. Try NOT to do it all at once. Some things can’t be avoided. If you do pistons and rods, then do cams too… you know, be sensible. But if you tear down your motor, and buy $12,000 of accessories don’t add them until it’s all broken in! Break the motor in, then add the turbo, then add the electronics, then add the giggle juice. This way when you throw a code or have a glitch (oh, and there are going to be glitches… muahahahaha) you don’t have 200 things to chase around.
My next point is this:
BE SMART. Plan ahead. Always plan your mods ahead of time, this way you don’t have to change parts out later on. If you’re getting a turbo, don’t buy a header. If you’re going to change your H23 to an H22, buy a VAFC not an SAFC. If you add N/A cams, make sure you aren’t planning on running nitrous later on.
Next… take the time to learn as you go. Ask questions, look at pictures or parts, ask how things work. This will all come in handy when you’re talking to a mechanic later on, or you’re on the side of the road trying to figure out what’s going on with your motor. You may not build your own motor, but it sure can’t hurt to know how things jive. Everyone has to start somewhere. I, too, at one point in time didn’t even know how VTEC worked, or had never seen what a lifter looked like. It’s ok to be car dumb to begin with… we ALL were at some point in time. The only ignorance is if you STAY that way.
This is going to be my last point for this evening. It’s late and I need to go to bed, I’ll write more later.
This is an important thing to remember. When you undertake a project things won’t go as planned. They simply won’t. Something will go wrong, or something will change. Something won’t fit right, or something will break and take out another part on it’s way. Sooner or later you’re going to discover that “a sure thing” isn’t a sure thing. This is a big business that moves a lot of volume, parts get mixed up, or specs get turned around… you just have to know ahead of time that you may have to adapt. Plan for it, and you’ll be on top of your game.
At some point in time, if you build a serious performance car, you’ll break something. It’s going to happen, prepare for it. Don’t tell me “but I made sure everything went right to begin with” or “but Todd, you I listened to your advice above, what could go wrong?” Well listen to me now: **** HAPPENS, and it will happen to you. It may be minor, it may be major, it may take 4 miles, it may take 2 years… something will go wrong if you intend to put out some horsepower. Playing it safe will minimize your damages, but you are GOING to have something screw up. Ask Sam, Gude, Satan, 2point6, Knightsport, Lip, hell… anyone who’s raced or built a REAL motor… I’m not lying to you to scare you, I’m preparing you for a fact of high performance cars. I’m preparing you for your life to change every time you leave the driveway.
Never, EVER spend ALL your money on your car at once. Leave a backup fund to at least get something rolling when you break down. It may be as simple as blowing out an oil return line, or you may drop a valve spring, but if your bank account is empty, then so are your options.
OK, I’m off to bed. I may edit this later if I found a little something that doesn’t sound right, or is just confusing. Again, those who have been where I’ve been (you guys know who you are) are more than welcome to add your $0.02 to what I’ve written, either agreeing or not. I just ask that you back up your statements.
Hope this helped out a little for at least someone………..
-Todd
My experience comes from 5 years, God knows how many performance shops and machine shops, and close to $50,000. I’ve probably blown up more engines than a lot of you have ever seen. I use stainless steel valves as paperweights, forged pistons with forged rods as book ends, micropolished and balanced cranks as boat anchors, and used clutches as frisbees. All that stuff is $$$$$$$$ that is now trash. I chalk it up to learning experience, and I’m going to try to pass some of it on to you. My learning was trial and error. An expensive choice, but I've gained a priceless amount of brain goodies.
I guess this post is for those of you who are a little newer to the world of heavily modifying Preludes. Most of the Prelude owners that are modifying their rides will stick to minor bolt on’s, a few electrical toys, and some look good stuff. These things present their own problems, but they’re minor in comparison to what some people will encounter.
Where I’m aiming to hit is the crowd of folks who just bought a Prelude, or have owned one for a while, and have decided that 14 second timeslips and cold air intakes just aren’t enough. I have to say, even those who are simply rebuilding a motor or having it built should read this and take some of it to heart.
A lot of people come in and out of this forum with dreams and ideas. They have grand visions of beating other cars on the track, street, or at a show. This is terrific. I encourage EVERYONE who has a goal or dream to go for it with all you have. HOWEVER, I have to state one thing: BE SMART AND REALISTIC. The following information is collected from years of dreaming, building, blowing stuff up, and dreaming even bigger. I’m here to tell you that it’s not as easy as it looks. It’s not as easy as some of us make it seem. I ran the Gumball and I have a lifetime of memories that only a handful of living people can say they've had... but it cost me dearly. I've sat in a Ferrari F-50,and I've had blue flames spit at me by the fastest car in the world. I've met and partied with some of the coolest rich people alive (and seen some stuff you would never believe), and I've ridden in one of the fastest porsches I've seen or heard of. But it came at a price.
One of the most important things to remember is that Honda’s have very VERY tight clearances. This is how they can run 200,000 miles and still keep going. These motors were built correctly from the factory, and to tinker with it requires someone with more than a basic knowledge of Chevy 350’s.
When you decide to modify your Prelude beyond simple stuff, you’re making a choice that 95% of the time you CAN’T back out of. If you tear down a motor, bore it and sleeve it you have just dedicated yourself to a lifetime of aftermarket stuff. If you port your head, or mill your head, you can’t just say “well, maybe that wasn’t a good idea” and glue that metal back on. Make sure that when you take off on your adventure you are damn well sure of what you’re doing and prepared to take the bad with the good. Your rollercoaster has just begun, and the good times will be great, and the bad times will make you want to put a bullet through your car, then your head.
That out of the way I think it’s time to get to the meat and potatoes of what I’m going to say. Trial and error is a part of this game. Get used to it, and plan for it.
An important step in building your car is choosing the right shop. Whether or not you realize this depends on your studying habits, but ALL SHOPS will have someone who has a complaint against it. EVERY SINGLE ONE. You WILL NOT find a true performance shop with a 100% satisfied customer list. You have to face this fact if you decide to have someone build your motor. You also have to face that when taking steps like you’re about to take you WILL at some point in time have a shop to **** you off. You WILL be “Screwed” at some point in time. You may be overcharged, or have a part messed up that you have to pay for… but rest assured something, sometime, somewhere will happen to you. Every time you hand the keys or drop off something you own to someone else you are rolling the dice. The very same shop that built your friends motor PERFECT may set your ring end gap wrong. That same shop that your brother used for HIS turbo install may have done a flawless job for him, but you may throw engine codes for 6 months.
Each screw up or broken part will have a different scenario to it. Sometimes you may be dealing with a shady shop, other times it may be an innocent simple oversight that cost you $1,000, or $10,000. Nothing, and I mean NOTHING, goes as planned 100% of the time. This is something you have to make allowances for.
My tips for dealing with shops:
#1. GET IT IN WRITING.
-For the love of God, I don’t care if it’s your own damn neighbor, make him write it down. Warranties, estimates, parts and labor… get it all in writing and KEEP IT. If, God forbid, you end up in a situation that goes to court, this will save YOUR ***. If they tell you one thing over the phone, double check it when you get to the shop.
#2. Overconfident owners = BAD NEWS.
-People who say “I can do that with my eyes closed” or “done it 200 times with no complaints” or “I can build it in a day and have it outrun nearly everything” are not to be trusted. They may not be TRYING to lie to you, but dumb luck runs out and it may run out on YOU.
#3. Promises = BAD NEWS
- No performance shop owner will make a promise to you. No one who is out to help YOU will “promise 11’s.” If a shop promises 20,000 miles, make them back it up with a written warranty. Promises are only as good as the person who gives them.
#4. If things go sour, TAKE NOTES and TAKE PICTURES
- When you go to a shop after something goes amiss, bring a witness. Take pictures of what has gone wrong if you can. If you talk to them on the phone, write down what they tell you. Keep a log of everything. Dates and times you’ve talked with someone, who it was, what they said. If you talk in person, leave a pen and paper in the car and write it down when you leave. Like I said above, a paper trail will save your butt. When it comes down to someone’s word against your word, “he with the most evidence wins.” If you suspect that you’re being “had” halfway through the transaction, then start then. If it turns out ok then you can toss what you’ve written. No harm, no foul.
#5. Your best friend who owns the shop isn’t your best friend when something goes wrong.
- Been there, done that. I mean my absolute BEST friend gave me the shaft with no lubrication. I made a bad decision not to sue because I thought he was an OK guy. I was wrong. Just because he’s cool and you think he’ll never do you wrong doesn’t mean when he won’t stiff you when $10,000 is on the line. $10,000 is a lot of change to simple eat, and I don’t care WHO you are.
#6. My ultimate advice is look at my Screen name. TRUST NO ONE
- That may sound harsh, but you’re the only person you can trust. If you can do it, then I suggest you do it. If you can’t, then cover your butt with the suggestions above. Even YOU are gonna screw up. The best mechanics in the world make mistakes. It happens, that’s why they’re called mistakes… if not, they’d be called “on purposes.”
Next on my list are going to be turbos, blowers, and NAWZ. (Power adders)
These bolt-ons carry a heavy responsibility with them. Used properly these little treats will give you some serious fun. One twitch of something bad, and you’re looking at a world of hurt.
First and foremost on my list is TUNING. DYNO DYNO DYNO. I can’t stress it enough. When you use a power adder you’re playing with fire. Your only insurance against burning yourself is making sure that when it’s installed that everything is running like it should be, and the ONLY way to do this correctly and safely is on a dyno. Gauges work wonders and shouldn’t be left out, but dyno time with a professional can never be beat. IN fact, gauges are essential in my book, although they might not be in other peoples top list.
This brings me to my next issue. Try NOT to do it all at once. Some things can’t be avoided. If you do pistons and rods, then do cams too… you know, be sensible. But if you tear down your motor, and buy $12,000 of accessories don’t add them until it’s all broken in! Break the motor in, then add the turbo, then add the electronics, then add the giggle juice. This way when you throw a code or have a glitch (oh, and there are going to be glitches… muahahahaha) you don’t have 200 things to chase around.
My next point is this:
BE SMART. Plan ahead. Always plan your mods ahead of time, this way you don’t have to change parts out later on. If you’re getting a turbo, don’t buy a header. If you’re going to change your H23 to an H22, buy a VAFC not an SAFC. If you add N/A cams, make sure you aren’t planning on running nitrous later on.
Next… take the time to learn as you go. Ask questions, look at pictures or parts, ask how things work. This will all come in handy when you’re talking to a mechanic later on, or you’re on the side of the road trying to figure out what’s going on with your motor. You may not build your own motor, but it sure can’t hurt to know how things jive. Everyone has to start somewhere. I, too, at one point in time didn’t even know how VTEC worked, or had never seen what a lifter looked like. It’s ok to be car dumb to begin with… we ALL were at some point in time. The only ignorance is if you STAY that way.
This is going to be my last point for this evening. It’s late and I need to go to bed, I’ll write more later.
This is an important thing to remember. When you undertake a project things won’t go as planned. They simply won’t. Something will go wrong, or something will change. Something won’t fit right, or something will break and take out another part on it’s way. Sooner or later you’re going to discover that “a sure thing” isn’t a sure thing. This is a big business that moves a lot of volume, parts get mixed up, or specs get turned around… you just have to know ahead of time that you may have to adapt. Plan for it, and you’ll be on top of your game.
At some point in time, if you build a serious performance car, you’ll break something. It’s going to happen, prepare for it. Don’t tell me “but I made sure everything went right to begin with” or “but Todd, you I listened to your advice above, what could go wrong?” Well listen to me now: **** HAPPENS, and it will happen to you. It may be minor, it may be major, it may take 4 miles, it may take 2 years… something will go wrong if you intend to put out some horsepower. Playing it safe will minimize your damages, but you are GOING to have something screw up. Ask Sam, Gude, Satan, 2point6, Knightsport, Lip, hell… anyone who’s raced or built a REAL motor… I’m not lying to you to scare you, I’m preparing you for a fact of high performance cars. I’m preparing you for your life to change every time you leave the driveway.
Never, EVER spend ALL your money on your car at once. Leave a backup fund to at least get something rolling when you break down. It may be as simple as blowing out an oil return line, or you may drop a valve spring, but if your bank account is empty, then so are your options.
OK, I’m off to bed. I may edit this later if I found a little something that doesn’t sound right, or is just confusing. Again, those who have been where I’ve been (you guys know who you are) are more than welcome to add your $0.02 to what I’ve written, either agreeing or not. I just ask that you back up your statements.
Hope this helped out a little for at least someone………..
-Todd
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11-20-2003, 04:45 AM
#3
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Re: *A MUST READ for those who are new to heavily modding your Prelude* (Lone Luder)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Lone Luder »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Never, EVER spend ALL your money on your car at once. Leave a backup fund to at least get something rolling when you break down. It may be as simple as blowing out an oil return line, or you may drop a valve spring, but if your bank account is empty, then so are your options.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
so true....so true......
nice advice!
</TD></TR></TABLE>
so true....so true......
nice advice!
11-20-2003, 06:00 AM
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Re: *A MUST READ for those who are new to heavily modding your Prelude* (LudeyKrus)
my best advice for you all
dont heavily mod a Prelude
Modified by Turbo Sam at 10:45 AM 11/20/2003
dont heavily mod a Prelude
Modified by Turbo Sam at 10:45 AM 11/20/2003
11-20-2003, 06:39 AM
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Re: *A MUST READ for those who are new to heavily modding your Prelude* (Lone Luder)
It is indeed good to see you posting again.
Yes, we will forever carry those memories of the gumball with us.
We are both still paying the price, but we still had fun.
Yes, we will forever carry those memories of the gumball with us.
We are both still paying the price, but we still had fun.
11-20-2003, 06:43 AM
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That is all great info, im lucky that the same shop has done every mod to my car successfully and I fully trust them, but something I beat myself in the head about is, I could already have my full dreams almost accomplished had I just of saved money instead of all the stupid boltons that I Plan on changing.
In my 2+ years of modding the lude, I can truely say save your money and buy the best of parts, they will last longer, and you can sell for more when you do sell them.
"My next point is this:
BE SMART. Plan ahead. Always plan your mods ahead of time, this way you don’t have to change parts out later on. If you’re getting a turbo, don’t buy a header. If you’re going to change your H23 to an H22, buy a VAFC not an SAFC. If you add N/A cams, make sure you aren’t planning on running nitrous later on."
In my 2+ years of modding the lude, I can truely say save your money and buy the best of parts, they will last longer, and you can sell for more when you do sell them.
"My next point is this:
BE SMART. Plan ahead. Always plan your mods ahead of time, this way you don’t have to change parts out later on. If you’re getting a turbo, don’t buy a header. If you’re going to change your H23 to an H22, buy a VAFC not an SAFC. If you add N/A cams, make sure you aren’t planning on running nitrous later on."
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11-20-2003, 08:11 AM
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Re: *A MUST READ for those who are new to heavily modding your Prelude* (Turbo Sam)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Turbo Sam »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">my best advice for you all
dont heavily mod a Prelude
</TD></TR></TABLE>
sammy has a point. But since that'll never happen.......... lol
dont heavily mod a Prelude
</TD></TR></TABLE>
sammy has a point. But since that'll never happen.......... lol
11-20-2003, 04:32 PM
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Re: *A MUST READ for those who are new to heavily modding your Prelude* (kb58)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by kb58 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">This applies to any car not just a Prelude...</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yes, but I care nothing about you if you own an Integra.
Protecting my Prelude people is what it's all about.
And in all honesty, most of this applies to almost all motorsports, but it's more prevelant in import racing. We ran a decently modded 350 in my dad's 65 vette for YEARS without problems. Bored, tanked, b&b, 11:1 compression pistons, a lot of headwork, cam, headers, EB intake mani with a holly 750 double pumper etc etc etc Way faster then any Prelude I've ever ridden in... and that's saying a lot.
It's just easier to get it right when working on a domestic motor... they aren't as picky.
Yes, but I care nothing about you if you own an Integra.
Protecting my Prelude people is what it's all about.
And in all honesty, most of this applies to almost all motorsports, but it's more prevelant in import racing. We ran a decently modded 350 in my dad's 65 vette for YEARS without problems. Bored, tanked, b&b, 11:1 compression pistons, a lot of headwork, cam, headers, EB intake mani with a holly 750 double pumper etc etc etc Way faster then any Prelude I've ever ridden in... and that's saying a lot.
It's just easier to get it right when working on a domestic motor... they aren't as picky.
11-20-2003, 06:14 PM
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Re: *A MUST READ for those who are new to heavily modding your Prelude* (kb58)
another thing to add is patiance. if you dont have it, quit now. i made a 10k doller mistake myself not too long ago. it was about 6 months ago, and im still finding things i broke.this can be split into a few parts.
a. you need to have patiance in the builded. if a part is on back order, but you feel it is the best part, wait on it. If you dont quite have the money save for it, it will cost MUCH more if you buy crap and it breaks. of course we all know to take our time in the assembly...right
b. once its in the car and running, AND YOU HAD IT TUNED, break it in right. what ever way that is, im not starting that arguement right now. yes have it tuned before you break it in. get a real base map. what most people refer to as a base map(what you get from telling the people you bought your standalone from what mods you have, and they make maps sitting home in their underwear), i like to refer to as a start-up map. its for just that, starting the car, and making it so it can go about 25 mi. low rpms, to the dyno. ok now your car is broke in, you nice new turbo engine, but no turbo
. you say ok ill just run some n20 till i get it. make sure you reasearch that too. dont try and run a 80 shot on stock fuel pump beleave me......more to come.
Vinny
a. you need to have patiance in the builded. if a part is on back order, but you feel it is the best part, wait on it. If you dont quite have the money save for it, it will cost MUCH more if you buy crap and it breaks. of course we all know to take our time in the assembly...right
b. once its in the car and running, AND YOU HAD IT TUNED, break it in right. what ever way that is, im not starting that arguement right now. yes have it tuned before you break it in. get a real base map. what most people refer to as a base map(what you get from telling the people you bought your standalone from what mods you have, and they make maps sitting home in their underwear), i like to refer to as a start-up map. its for just that, starting the car, and making it so it can go about 25 mi. low rpms, to the dyno. ok now your car is broke in, you nice new turbo engine, but no turbo
. you say ok ill just run some n20 till i get it. make sure you reasearch that too. dont try and run a 80 shot on stock fuel pump beleave me......more to come.Vinny
11-20-2003, 09:53 PM
#13
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Re: *A MUST READ for those who are new to heavily modding your Prelude* (fastludeh22)
I'll add more when I get the chance
1) Get a beater. I finally got one, thank god if the motor ever went again I'd be screwed.
2) DOWNTIME IS YOUR ENEMY. When the car is busted and you're thinking about what to do, you can BUY A LOT OF **** YOU DON'T NEED. Man I had my engine overbuilt before it was even built. When the car is out of commission try to be conservative in your purchases.
1) Get a beater. I finally got one, thank god if the motor ever went again I'd be screwed.
2) DOWNTIME IS YOUR ENEMY. When the car is busted and you're thinking about what to do, you can BUY A LOT OF **** YOU DON'T NEED. Man I had my engine overbuilt before it was even built. When the car is out of commission try to be conservative in your purchases.
11-20-2003, 10:08 PM
#14
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Re: *A MUST READ for those who are new to heavily modding your Prelude* (satan_srv)
1. After you've spent the big bucks on parts, installed it, and spent hundreds on dyno time, make sure that you maintain your car. Solenoids wear out. If your fuel noid goes before your nitrous noid you are fucked.
11-20-2003, 10:19 PM
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Re: *A MUST READ for those who are new to heavily modding your Prelude* (Lone Luder)
Also, from personal experience. if the work on v8's and say they can work on your four cylinder cause "all motors are the same" RUN, they are not, ask a V8 guy to tune cams with adjustable gears on your 4 cylinder and they will pull out a dial indicator and degree wheel, good luck!!
11-21-2003, 01:10 PM
#17
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Re: *A MUST READ for those who are new to heavily modding your Prelude* (93ludeSi)
Yeah do research on your builder. Get lots of opinions. Talk to people that are running their motors right now.
11-21-2003, 02:11 PM
#18
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Re: *A MUST READ for those who are new to heavily modding your Prelude* (Lone Luder)
even though ive had plans, ive never really been into heavily modifying my car. many kids come to these board with wild dreams for their prelude, 99% of them don't follow through... that is what is known as reality...
an expensive all motor build or a turbo kit may produce a decently fast street car... a thirteen second car will not get very far in the world of drag racing... as far as auto-x's and road races go, builds such as these will either not allow the car to compete, or the car will be placed in a class where it will stand no chance...
ive been racing for almost 6 years, been a car nut for 10, ive realized that dumping thousands of dollars into any car is not what it is about... i can take my prelude and run in dsp at auto-x, the car is perfectly legal to run in H2 (minus the cf hood), and i can slap slicks on the car and run a 13 second passes all night... point being that i have a blast in my prelude, yet i dont have a 10k all motor build or a 15k turbo motor...
so for all of you guys wanting to spend a small fortune on your preludes, make sure it is what you want... five years down the road will you be kicking yourself in the head for spending 15k on your 5k dollar car and not towards a house???
todd, you give some excellent advice in your post... i do want to emphazise a couple things though:
-a second car (even a third) will be invaluable... fast hondas break more often than you'd think, even more often when you're racing...
-learn how to turn your own wrenches... ive saved myself thousands doing my own work. come on people, pulling an axle is easy...
-and finally, build a solid relationship with the shop that is doing your work... if i didnt fully know and trust a particular shop, i would not even consider giving the shop a dime...
as far as my prelude goes, i quit modding the car a while ago, and i have no further plans for it, except stiffer springs and perhaps a race header... the turbo kit will not be going in the prelude, it will go into the 240sx... i need as much power as i can get out of that car to pull those smokey mAd DrIfTs yO!
an expensive all motor build or a turbo kit may produce a decently fast street car... a thirteen second car will not get very far in the world of drag racing... as far as auto-x's and road races go, builds such as these will either not allow the car to compete, or the car will be placed in a class where it will stand no chance...
ive been racing for almost 6 years, been a car nut for 10, ive realized that dumping thousands of dollars into any car is not what it is about... i can take my prelude and run in dsp at auto-x, the car is perfectly legal to run in H2 (minus the cf hood), and i can slap slicks on the car and run a 13 second passes all night... point being that i have a blast in my prelude, yet i dont have a 10k all motor build or a 15k turbo motor...
so for all of you guys wanting to spend a small fortune on your preludes, make sure it is what you want... five years down the road will you be kicking yourself in the head for spending 15k on your 5k dollar car and not towards a house???
todd, you give some excellent advice in your post... i do want to emphazise a couple things though:
-a second car (even a third) will be invaluable... fast hondas break more often than you'd think, even more often when you're racing...
-learn how to turn your own wrenches... ive saved myself thousands doing my own work. come on people, pulling an axle is easy...
-and finally, build a solid relationship with the shop that is doing your work... if i didnt fully know and trust a particular shop, i would not even consider giving the shop a dime...
as far as my prelude goes, i quit modding the car a while ago, and i have no further plans for it, except stiffer springs and perhaps a race header... the turbo kit will not be going in the prelude, it will go into the 240sx... i need as much power as i can get out of that car to pull those smokey mAd DrIfTs yO!
11-21-2003, 05:18 PM
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Thank-you for this post.Very helpful and very informative.
This is going up on the Edmonton Prelude Clubs web forum.
http://www.edmontonpreludeclub.com
Modified by HKSpowers at 6:42 AM 12/11/2003
This is going up on the Edmonton Prelude Clubs web forum.
http://www.edmontonpreludeclub.com
Modified by HKSpowers at 6:42 AM 12/11/2003
11-22-2003, 12:50 PM
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Re: *A MUST READ for those who are new to heavily modding your Prelude* (ALTERED4)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ALTERED4 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
an expensive all motor build or a turbo kit may produce a decently fast street car... a thirteen second car will not get very far in the world of drag racing... as far as auto-x's and road races go, builds such as these will either not allow the car to compete, or the car will be placed in a class where it will stand no chance...
</TD></TR></TABLE>
With that being said. A simple motor build idea is Type S pistons in a stock bottom end, good head work, quality header, 2.5" mandrel bent catback, and a nice mild set of cams. Granted this is probably about a $3k-$4k build, but it'll put down some nice numbers, be very streetable, and retain reliability to some extent.
an expensive all motor build or a turbo kit may produce a decently fast street car... a thirteen second car will not get very far in the world of drag racing... as far as auto-x's and road races go, builds such as these will either not allow the car to compete, or the car will be placed in a class where it will stand no chance...
</TD></TR></TABLE>
With that being said. A simple motor build idea is Type S pistons in a stock bottom end, good head work, quality header, 2.5" mandrel bent catback, and a nice mild set of cams. Granted this is probably about a $3k-$4k build, but it'll put down some nice numbers, be very streetable, and retain reliability to some extent.
11-22-2003, 01:36 PM
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I agree, i spent about 5k on my motor, and that was too much and took to long, if you want to build a race car out of a prelude, do it, just realize that you are going to need to spend a minimun of 5k on the motor and another 5k on a turbo setup, and be prepared for it to break!
11-22-2003, 04:24 PM
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Re: (BTgirl)
What's with all the emphasis on the DYNO? A good TUNER is what you need, I can give a crap if they're using a dyno or not. If you're doing any big power adders, buy a management system and have someone competent tune it. A wideband on the street is the best way to tune.
That's some good advice Todd, but a lot of it is tainted with whatever bitterness you've got towards peeps you've interacted with in the past. I have a shop, and we've never EVER screwed anybody. Biggest complaint is the amount of time it takes us to get stuff done, but that's because we don't rush and we do things right.......
On a side note, don't screw your shop either....this goes with the old "treat others as you'd like to be treated". When people come in, ask for a quote on a $300 part, and then go buy the part online because it's $20 cheaper we take that to heart. You support your shop, they should support you.
Brian
That's some good advice Todd, but a lot of it is tainted with whatever bitterness you've got towards peeps you've interacted with in the past. I have a shop, and we've never EVER screwed anybody. Biggest complaint is the amount of time it takes us to get stuff done, but that's because we don't rush and we do things right.......
On a side note, don't screw your shop either....this goes with the old "treat others as you'd like to be treated". When people come in, ask for a quote on a $300 part, and then go buy the part online because it's $20 cheaper we take that to heart. You support your shop, they should support you.
Brian