RS_H22

Ok, from a purely mathematic point of view it seems like it could work...

K20 Block height: 8.351
H22 crank: 3.571
H22 rods: 5.636

If you do the math...

8.351 - (3.571/2) -5.636 = .930 - .018 (deck clearance)

.912 would be the compression height needed for the custom K piston necessary for this set up...

Displacement would be 2156cc/2.2 with a 1.58 r/s ratio...


Ive been told the K and H series blocks and internals are pretty similar, keep in mind I said "Ive been told"... I havent had the opertunity to crack open a K motor to find out for myself so Im just going by things Ive heard from others...

Questions are...

What are the mains sizes on the K20 cranks? I know the 97+ H22's have 55mm mains so I was curious to see if the K20's were the same???

Also, is the center to center the same from H to K? Ive been told its exactly the same but I have not personally verified it...

I should have more questions later but for now this is all Ive been left wondering about...

So far it looks to be an inexpensive and very benificial set up if all adds up...

Edit: to further add to this...

An 04 S2000 90.7mm crank is an option as well... A little pricey though but IMO a little better in design than the H22 crank...

just some ideas




Modified by RS_H22 at 9:29 PM 11/11/2003

satan_srv

well the k20 has a 139mm rod and an 86mm stroke 1.62 RS/R

I don't really see any benefit in putting H series parts in there, if you want to stroke why not use K24 parts.

Besides an H22a crank is 90.7mm + 143mm rod that's already 7ishmm higher at TDC than the K20 setup...even if it fits.

I don't see what you would accomplish though..the K20 is a great motor

RS_H22

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by satan_srv &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I don't see what you would accomplish though..the K20 is a great motor</TD></TR></TABLE>

It would be a bigger torquier motor capable of more power and of course torque... A 1.58 r/s ratio wouldnt hurt rev capability either... Not really much of a downside to going 2.2...

As I calculated in my previous post the 143mm rod and 90.7mm stroke can in fact work in the K20 block from a mathematical stand point with the use of a custom piston with a .912 compression height... not to sure if it will physically work yet due to the lack of K20 main diameters and specs of that nature...

THe K series blocks are pretty similar to H and F20C blocks in the sense that they can be sleeved and bored as the H22... Meaning, With sleeves it is possible to achieve a 90mm bore...

This motor has endless potential possibilities, the days of a 300+HP NA street car are near...

I just need some K20 specs as I asked for in my previous post... So if anyone can contribute I would greatly appreciate it...

Thanks,
Rick

RS_H22

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by satan_srv &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Besides an H22a crank is 90.7mm + 143mm rod that's already 7ishmm higher at TDC than the K20 setup...even if it fits.</TD></TR></TABLE>

You dont calculate height of the piston at TDC using the entire stroke, its calculated by deviding stroke in half... Ill show you using mm instead of inches to try and show you what I mean...

Block height 212mm
Stroke 90.7mm
Rod length 143mm

212 - (90.7/2) -143

So basicly...

212.1 - 45.35 - 143.1 = 23.65

Convert that into inches...

23.65/25.4 = .931

.931 is the compression height needed for the custom piston if your going run 0 deck clearance...

.018 deck is recomended by Wiseco so Ill factor that in...

.930 - .018 = .912

Final compression height needed for the custom piston with .018 deck clearance is .912...

K, now my head hurts...

I need one of these

RS_H22

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SuperTwinz &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I like this setup better</TD></TR></TABLE>

The only potential problem I see with the K24 blocks is going to be the 99mm stroke, the rod angle and piston speeds... No matter how long of a rod you use its not going to do much in terms of slowing down piston speed with that big of a stroke... The rod angle is going to be pretty bad as well either way...

My recomendation for that set up would be to go slightly smaller with the stroke, maybe 95mm to help increase the geometry of the motor...

Im speaking from a mathematic point of view and lack any real world experience with the K24 block so I could in fact be very wrong about this...

stevel

use the K24 block with the 86mm K20 crank.

By using the K24A block and the same stock 86mm crank but using a 6.250 inch
[158.75mm] rod we get a 1.85:1 rod / stroke ratio which will make
substantially more power, especially at higher RPM.

This yields about 2.2L of displacement.

You can use the H crank in the K20, but again the K24 block is the better choice. The K24A comes stock with a 99mm stroke, so we have plenty of room for a nice long rod if we use a reworked H22A crank. This configuration will be 90mm X 90.7 mm and displace 2308cc. With this combination we'll have a 1.74:1 rod / stroke ratio using a 6.2 inch [157.5mm] rod. Still substantially better than the standard K20A, and better than anything in the B-series lineup other than the B16B, which is just about the same.

With what IB does and your connections, I wouldn't think custom length rods would be a big deal and of course I'm sure you already have the pistons you need.

Hope that helps. By the way, this is not info I came up with. This is from a K series guru who has done tons of work already so as we speak I bet he's already done the K24 block, K20 crank.

s

brian g

I'd be willing to bet you could bolt the new S2000's crank in for the perfect compromise. I would think the only thing you would ned to do would be machine the nose of the crank to match that of the K20/24 profile.

The new S2000 is a 2.2 liter and would probably yield a good rod/stroke ratio.

As to the original question, the late model H22 crank will go in but will need modifying.

brian g

RS_H22

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by brian g &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The new S2000 is a 2.2 liter and would probably yield a good rod/stroke ratio.</TD></TR></TABLE>

The 04 90.7mm S2000 crank just about drops in... The r/s ratio would be 1.58 using H22 rods and a custom piston with a .912 compression height

brian g

I don't think the H22 rods would work without turning down the F22(C?) crank's rod journals. If you did that, you could probably do it off center so that you might be able to use a stock piston of your choice.

Even if the F22(C?) crank drops in the nose is probably different. You'd need to address that.

brian g

RS_H22

The rod journals are the same... The BE bore is 2.008 for both the H22 rods and the S2000 rods...

Going with a shorter rod and a factory or off the shelf piston would hurt the motors ability to rev... In this case, with the H22 rods the r/s ratio will be 1.58 which is a rev friendly r/s raatio making cam selection a much easier task...

JDogg

im not sure if the h22 crank would work. the timing belt side would have to have alot done, the k-series/f22c/f20c have a timing chain instead of a belt. if you could get a 04 s2k crank it would prolly work.

brian g

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RS_H22 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">In this case, with the H22 rods the r/s ratio will be 1.58 which is a rev friendly r/s raatio making cam selection a much easier task...</TD></TR></TABLE>

What would the R/S ratio in a K24 block be with F22 S2000 crank be? That's what I'm interested in.


brian g

RS_H22

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by brian g &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What would the R/S ratio in a K24 block be with F22 S2000 crank be?</TD></TR></TABLE>

9.094 - (3.570/2) - 1.181 = 6.128

6.128 x 25.4= 155.65mm

155.6/90.7 = 1.71

So there ya go... The r/s ratio would be 1.71

MrTodd

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RS_H22 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

9.094 - (3.570/2) - 1.181 = 6.128

6.128 x 25.4= 155.65mm

155.6/90.7 = 1.71

So there ya go... The r/s ratio would be 1.71</TD></TR></TABLE>

You're supposed to say either "sucka", or "y0" at the end of your statement to emphasize your point/information.

RS_H22

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MrTodd &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You're supposed to say either "sucka", or "y0" at the end of your statement to emphasize your point/information. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Thank you for the pointer... ummm... err... uhhh... SUCKAYO!

Austin

I know of somebody that's already working on one of the above projects, it should be done within the month...

Austin

RS_H22

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Austin &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I know of somebody that's already working on one of the above projects, it should be done within the month...Austin</TD></TR></TABLE>

Could that be Ron "edo" Acevedo?

You might wanna click on the K series link in my sig ...

Austin

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RS_H22 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Could that be Ron "edo" Acevedo?

You might wanna click on the K series link in my sig ...</TD></TR></TABLE>

Nope...but could you tell me the Rod-to-Stroke ratio for the 2.4L that he's planning on building?

RS_H22

Its going to be a fully documented build up/project... We are putting up a flash site to cover our K series, B series and H series projects coming up in the near future...

His RSX and 96 Coupe will have K20 set ups... They will be alot less displacement built for street and H1 NASA Honda challenge Competition...


Modified by RS_H22 at 4:33 AM 11/18/2003

brian g

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Austin &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I know of somebody that's already working on one of the above projects, it should be done within the month...</TD></TR></TABLE>

We were going to build an H22 cranked K20 or 24 or H1 in NASA, but instead we asked NASA to allow the K24 in H1. They said OK.

I do ned a high revver for my landspeed car though, thats why I'm interested in the S2000 crank in a K24 block. The great rod stroke ratio would allow me to make more runs on less rebuilds.

Austin

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by brian g &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

We were going to build an H22 cranked K20 or 24 or H1 in NASA, but instead we asked NASA to allow the K24 in H1. They said OK.

I do ned a high revver for my landspeed car though, thats why I'm interested in the S2000 crank in a K24 block. The great rod stroke ratio would allow me to make more runs on less rebuilds.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

Very nice Brian, I'm sure that it'll work out, and I'm sure that you've done your research.

Austin

Suprdave

Uhm wouldnt you have to flip the keyway on the H22 crank?

miller

so whats the deal ? does the new s2000 (90.7mm) crank bolt into the k series or not?? does anyone know??

brian g

Most likely it will but I'd guess the nose is different. I won't know for sure for a while. I'm sure someone will determine it before me.

brian g


Modified by brian g at 3:45 PM 1/14/2004

GreenR

I think Hytech is researching using a H22 crank to destroke the K24 to a 2.3L. Do a search on CLubrsx.