Phantom Grip LSD for solo2
11-11-2003, 01:32 AM
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Phantom Grip LSD for solo2
Just wondering if anyone has ACTUAL experience with the PG for autox or maybe even some road racing? I've done a search and it seems like the consensus is that the PG is not a "real lsd" and it "sucks b/c it destorys trannies."
I also read that the PG is not good for autox b/c it forces both wheels to spin and not actually distributing the power between the two wheels. However, I want ppl with actual experience using this setup to confirm this.
Thank you in advance.
I also read that the PG is not good for autox b/c it forces both wheels to spin and not actually distributing the power between the two wheels. However, I want ppl with actual experience using this setup to confirm this.
Thank you in advance.
11-11-2003, 05:01 AM
#2
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Re: Phantom Grip LSD for solo2 (SuperRice)
I want the same info. Gotta open the tranny soon for a clutch job and figured "While I'm in here and my OE vlsd is pretty much toasted after 38 track weekends...."
I did drive "the Captain's" Civic hatch earlier this year at an autocross with one (I think it was installed by then) and thought it was just dandy.
I did drive "the Captain's" Civic hatch earlier this year at an autocross with one (I think it was installed by then) and thought it was just dandy.
11-11-2003, 06:22 AM
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Re: Phantom Grip LSD for solo2 (MaddMatt)
11-11-2003, 06:41 AM
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Re: Phantom Grip LSD for solo2 (SuperRice)
<---- someone with experiance....
My Phantom slip doesn't do SQUAT!!!!!!! A stock out of the box Phantom grip wont do anything for you, although I've been told you can get some tighter springs and it will work better then. but still, there is metal to metal friction going on in your tranny, which can't be good any way you look at it.
When I put mine in, I had a bunch of people tell me that they cause the Honda Diffs to explode, but after further reasearch, I found that it was mostly drag racers that had this problem and that they were having problems with stock diffs as well. Considering the PG is added to the stock diff, and doesn't accually replace it, I wrote it off as problems with a weak diff, not a bad product.
I plan to remove my PG over the winter since I'm going into STS next season and it's not allowed, I'll let everyone know what 1 year of use has done to an otherwise brand new (well, rebuilt) tranny.
My Phantom slip doesn't do SQUAT!!!!!!! A stock out of the box Phantom grip wont do anything for you, although I've been told you can get some tighter springs and it will work better then. but still, there is metal to metal friction going on in your tranny, which can't be good any way you look at it.
When I put mine in, I had a bunch of people tell me that they cause the Honda Diffs to explode, but after further reasearch, I found that it was mostly drag racers that had this problem and that they were having problems with stock diffs as well. Considering the PG is added to the stock diff, and doesn't accually replace it, I wrote it off as problems with a weak diff, not a bad product.
I plan to remove my PG over the winter since I'm going into STS next season and it's not allowed, I'll let everyone know what 1 year of use has done to an otherwise brand new (well, rebuilt) tranny.
11-11-2003, 06:45 AM
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Re: Phantom Grip LSD for solo2 (thumpu77)
That's another thing to consider. What will it cost to be installed... then later having to replace it (two installs?) So add the price of the PG + install + install = not so cheap $$$ for something that many say doesn't work...
Passing on hearsay as I admit not to own one. But I know how they work, and metal-on-metal is a really bad idea.
Passing on hearsay as I admit not to own one. But I know how they work, and metal-on-metal is a really bad idea.
11-11-2003, 06:55 AM
#7
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Re: Phantom Grip LSD for solo2 (MaddMatt)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MaddMatt »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Gotta open the tranny soon for a clutch job</TD></TR></TABLE>
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11-11-2003, 08:47 AM
#8
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Re: Phantom Grip LSD for solo2 (Greyout)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">? ?
</TD></TR></TABLE>
108Kmiles, 38 track weekends, hundreds of auto-x launches, OE clutch.
It gave me grief at Summit so it's time for it to go. Actually, Karl busted it
Matt<gingerly driving to/from work....
</TD></TR></TABLE>
108Kmiles, 38 track weekends, hundreds of auto-x launches, OE clutch.
It gave me grief at Summit so it's time for it to go. Actually, Karl busted it
Matt<gingerly driving to/from work....
11-11-2003, 10:40 AM
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Re: Phantom Grip LSD for solo2 (MaddMatt)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MaddMatt »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
108Kmiles, 38 track weekends, hundreds of auto-x launches, OE clutch.
It gave me grief at Summit so it's time for it to go. Actually, Karl busted it
Matt<gingerly driving to/from work....</TD></TR></TABLE>
I think he's wondering why you have to open the tranny for a clutch job, as in open the casing. If that's what you meant, rather than just dropping the tranny, I'm wondering the same thing.
108Kmiles, 38 track weekends, hundreds of auto-x launches, OE clutch.
It gave me grief at Summit so it's time for it to go. Actually, Karl busted it
Matt<gingerly driving to/from work....</TD></TR></TABLE>
I think he's wondering why you have to open the tranny for a clutch job, as in open the casing. If that's what you meant, rather than just dropping the tranny, I'm wondering the same thing.
11-11-2003, 12:29 PM
#10
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Re: Phantom Grip LSD for solo2 (manveer)
OK, sorry.
"I'll be needing to replace the clutch soon, so I figured while I was at it, I might as well put in something better than a worn out OE viscous lsd."
Better?!?!
"I'll be needing to replace the clutch soon, so I figured while I was at it, I might as well put in something better than a worn out OE viscous lsd."
Better?!?!
11-11-2003, 05:25 PM
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Re: Phantom Grip LSD for solo2 (MaddMatt)
Yeah, I figured that that was what you meant, but I was just trying to elucidate what Greyout said.
No big deal, it doesn't matter to me. Enough thread hijacking.
No big deal, it doesn't matter to me. Enough thread hijacking.
11-11-2003, 05:44 PM
#12
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Re: Phantom Grip LSD for solo2 (SuperRice)
I have had a PG in my street car for about 25,000 miles. It hasn't blown up my tranny and it does nothing anymore. When I first installed it, I ran my lapping day at Putnam Park and could tell that it definatley helped with the putting power down in some corners and pulled the car through however it wore out extremely quickly to the point that I can safely say it has 0-10% function remaining. Sitting at a traffic light on rain slick roads means wheel spin even with careful throttle. It's gone.
When I bought it for only $250, I knew it was a risk but I honestly didn't expect much either and I was already opening the tranny. I would never put a PG in a racecar, the OPM unit has served me well there and I have a Mugen unit on the shelf waiting for the next tranny.
If you go into it with basically no expectations, you won't be disappointed because that is about what it will deliver in the long run. I was disappointed in the Rivergate folks that I bought it from. They had the right answers to my questions until they ran my credit card. After the purchase, "elusive" would be a good word to the point of ducking direct face-to-face questions.
When I bought it for only $250, I knew it was a risk but I honestly didn't expect much either and I was already opening the tranny. I would never put a PG in a racecar, the OPM unit has served me well there and I have a Mugen unit on the shelf waiting for the next tranny.
If you go into it with basically no expectations, you won't be disappointed because that is about what it will deliver in the long run. I was disappointed in the Rivergate folks that I bought it from. They had the right answers to my questions until they ran my credit card. After the purchase, "elusive" would be a good word to the point of ducking direct face-to-face questions.
11-11-2003, 06:33 PM
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one doesn't necessarily need firsthand experience to recognize a faulty design concept...
if you can drop a tranny, take it apart, install the PG and put it back together, and don't have to take time off work, the $250 price tag is a bargain.
if you are going to pay someone to install the unit, and pay them to replace it or remove it, it'll cost as much or more than a quaife+install, because labor rates ain't cheap. and most shops i know charge 3 hrs of work everytime they drop or reinstall a tranny. add to that tearing one apart, well you get the picture.
cheap can be great, but only when the **** works.
if you can drop a tranny, take it apart, install the PG and put it back together, and don't have to take time off work, the $250 price tag is a bargain.
if you are going to pay someone to install the unit, and pay them to replace it or remove it, it'll cost as much or more than a quaife+install, because labor rates ain't cheap. and most shops i know charge 3 hrs of work everytime they drop or reinstall a tranny. add to that tearing one apart, well you get the picture.
cheap can be great, but only when the **** works.
11-11-2003, 06:59 PM
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Re: Phantom Grip LSD for solo2 (SuperRice)
From my experience with student cars that were equipped with PG and those comments of my customers....
Phantom Grip = Random Grip
Phantom Grip = Random Grip
11-12-2003, 03:48 AM
#15
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Re: Phantom Grip LSD for solo2 (MaddMatt)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MaddMatt »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">OK, sorry.
"I'll be needing to replace the clutch soon, so I figured while I was at it, I might as well put in something better than a worn out OE viscous lsd."
Better?!?!</TD></TR></TABLE>
hi matt!
why not rebuild the LSD? my Cobra has the old Ford Traction-Lok in it; it works fairly well, but is known to wear out prematurely if used extensively (read: the way Reid likes to drive!).
the good thing is, the cost for replacement clutches and parts for a complete rebuild is less than $85.....
is there not a rebuild kit for your SE-R that will bring it back to factory fresh???
"I'll be needing to replace the clutch soon, so I figured while I was at it, I might as well put in something better than a worn out OE viscous lsd."
Better?!?!</TD></TR></TABLE>
hi matt!
why not rebuild the LSD? my Cobra has the old Ford Traction-Lok in it; it works fairly well, but is known to wear out prematurely if used extensively (read: the way Reid likes to drive!).
the good thing is, the cost for replacement clutches and parts for a complete rebuild is less than $85.....
is there not a rebuild kit for your SE-R that will bring it back to factory fresh???
11-12-2003, 04:00 AM
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Re: Phantom Grip LSD for solo2 (Todd Reid)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">is there not a rebuild kit for your SE-R that will bring it back to factory fresh???
</TD></TR></TABLE>
It is my understanding that the OE lsd is a sealed piece that cannot be opened. I have not actually seen this myself, just going off the words/experience of others who've tried. To my knowledge there is no rebuild kit for the SE-R lsd.
I'll ask though.
I do have an offer for a lightly used OE one for not much (like ~$80). That's certainly an option, just wondered if that $80 would be better spent toward a better lsd.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
It is my understanding that the OE lsd is a sealed piece that cannot be opened. I have not actually seen this myself, just going off the words/experience of others who've tried. To my knowledge there is no rebuild kit for the SE-R lsd.
I'll ask though.
I do have an offer for a lightly used OE one for not much (like ~$80). That's certainly an option, just wondered if that $80 would be better spent toward a better lsd.
11-12-2003, 05:48 AM
#17
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Re: Phantom Grip LSD for solo2 (MaddMatt)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MaddMatt »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
It is my understanding that the OE lsd is a sealed piece that cannot be opened. I have not actually seen this myself, just going off the words/experience of others who've tried. To my knowledge there is no rebuild kit for the SE-R lsd.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
We have basically the same OE Nissan LSD in my wife's Infiniti I30t 5 speed and I have been told that it is not serviceable too so likely we are both out of luck. Bummer.
It is my understanding that the OE lsd is a sealed piece that cannot be opened. I have not actually seen this myself, just going off the words/experience of others who've tried. To my knowledge there is no rebuild kit for the SE-R lsd.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
We have basically the same OE Nissan LSD in my wife's Infiniti I30t 5 speed and I have been told that it is not serviceable too so likely we are both out of luck. Bummer.
11-12-2003, 06:24 AM
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Re: Phantom Grip LSD for solo2 (MaddMatt)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MaddMatt »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">"I'll be needing to replace the clutch soon, so I figured while I was at it, I might as well put in something better than a worn out OE viscous lsd."</TD></TR></TABLE>
If you have a factory LSD, you will need to purchace an open diff in which to install the PG into, don't forget to add that cost to the total price tag.
If you have a factory LSD, you will need to purchace an open diff in which to install the PG into, don't forget to add that cost to the total price tag.
11-12-2003, 09:16 AM
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Re: (Adrift)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If you have a factory LSD, you will need to purchace an open diff in which to install the PG into, don't forget to add that cost to the total price tag.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Looks like for my car (SE-R) they have a specific model for that transmission. Non-lsd trannys have a different model number. So I am assuming that it works with my existing lsd (the quaiffe does this as well).
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Looks like for my car (SE-R) they have a specific model for that transmission. Non-lsd trannys have a different model number. So I am assuming that it works with my existing lsd (the quaiffe does this as well).
11-12-2003, 11:24 AM
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Re: (MaddMatt)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MaddMatt »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Looks like for my car (SE-R) they have a specific model for that transmission. Non-lsd trannys have a different model number. So I am assuming that it works with my existing lsd (the quaiffe does this as well).</TD></TR></TABLE>
Actually a Phantom Grip will be LESS effective in the SE-R's tranny than in an open diff... because it works in concert with the worn-out OE LSD. It doesn't replace anything it ADDS. The Quaife replaces the OE LSD.
I have also been told (and can see) that the LSD is sealed... but there has to be a way to replace the fluid and re-seal it... right? Even if it involves welding?
BTW, a new OE LSD from the dealer is... umm... the same price as a Quaife would be if Quaife still sold them. Nismo?
I put a used 50,000 mile OE LSD when I cracked my tranny.
Andy - who hopes Matt doesn't break off a bolthead in the tranny that supposed to be torqued to 12-15 ft-lbs WHILE he has a torque wrench on it...
Looks like for my car (SE-R) they have a specific model for that transmission. Non-lsd trannys have a different model number. So I am assuming that it works with my existing lsd (the quaiffe does this as well).</TD></TR></TABLE>
Actually a Phantom Grip will be LESS effective in the SE-R's tranny than in an open diff... because it works in concert with the worn-out OE LSD. It doesn't replace anything it ADDS. The Quaife replaces the OE LSD.
I have also been told (and can see) that the LSD is sealed... but there has to be a way to replace the fluid and re-seal it... right? Even if it involves welding?
BTW, a new OE LSD from the dealer is... umm... the same price as a Quaife would be if Quaife still sold them. Nismo?
I put a used 50,000 mile OE LSD when I cracked my tranny.
Andy - who hopes Matt doesn't break off a bolthead in the tranny that supposed to be torqued to 12-15 ft-lbs WHILE he has a torque wrench on it...
11-12-2003, 11:42 AM
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Re: (maxQ)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I have also been told (and can see) that the LSD is sealed... but there has to be a way to replace the fluid and re-seal it... right? Even if it involves welding?
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yes it can. Someone over on the SR20 board even posted a place in England that'll do it. And after you include the shipping back/forth you might as well just buy a Nismo or Quaiffe unit.
Sounds like I need to just get a lightly used OE one and go another 108,000 miles....
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yes it can. Someone over on the SR20 board even posted a place in England that'll do it. And after you include the shipping back/forth you might as well just buy a Nismo or Quaiffe unit.
Sounds like I need to just get a lightly used OE one and go another 108,000 miles....
11-12-2003, 11:47 AM
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Re: (MaddMatt)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MaddMatt »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Yes it can. Someone over on the SR20 board even posted a place in England that'll do it. And after you include the shipping back/forth you might as well just buy a Nismo or Quaiffe unit.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Unless you need to stay legal...
Yes it can. Someone over on the SR20 board even posted a place in England that'll do it. And after you include the shipping back/forth you might as well just buy a Nismo or Quaiffe unit.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Unless you need to stay legal...
11-12-2003, 12:52 PM
#24
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Re: (maxQ)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Unless you need to stay legal... </TD></TR></TABLE>
STX baby. Pax is virtually identicle to STS (like, .003 difference) and I can do some cooler crap to the car for track (eg: a better LSD, motor mounts, stupid big brakes if I wanna)
STX baby. Pax is virtually identicle to STS (like, .003 difference) and I can do some cooler crap to the car for track (eg: a better LSD, motor mounts, stupid big brakes if I wanna)
11-12-2003, 02:31 PM
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Re: (MaddMatt)
i had one in my gsr tranny. now i have a gsr tranny without it and i cant tell the difference at all. wheels slip around corners the same exact way. they are a complete waste of time and money in my opinion. however i did have the street springs and ive heard that the race springs make it a little better. i still will never put one in one of my vehicles ever again.