Black R

Ok, I finally played with my new itr on the dyno for an hour with the wideband.....

Some interesting stuff I learned:

I got a baseline for the car when I picked it up, it put out 158whp and 118ft-lb of tq with arospeed intake, dc 4-1 header (2.25" collector), and apex WS catback. (Runs 2 & 3.)

I took all that crap off and put on aem cai, hytech header, and custom 2.5" mandrel bent exhaust with n1 can. The new baseline is 173whp and 124 ft-lb of tq. vafc was zero'd out (vtec @ 5600), so it had no effect..... [run 4]





Some interesting things to note were the 10whp/ 13 ft-lb gain at 4300rpm, 14whp/ 13 ft-lb gain at 5700, and anywhere from 10-15whp gain from there till redline.....

Next, I played with the vafc and did a little leaning of the fuel after vtec since it was so damn rich... got some gains there as well..... got up to 177whp peak and the neat thing was the way the peak whp was flat from 7500-8400 and even slightly climbing.....

Next, I played with the vtec crossover a bit. I knew that lots of people were recommending lowering the crossover a bit, so I dropped it to 5200 and did a pull... got some gains and smoothed out the powerband... then I dropped it to 4800 and got some gains... 4200 got some gains... 3800 got more gains... 3200 lost power... so I left it at 3800... really weird! Obviously, I won't leave it there on the streets, but for dragging/ autox/ road racing I'll leave it there. I gained 8whp at 4500 just by putting vtec at 3800... and no dip or losses b/c of it.....



Well I ended up with 175whp and 122 ft-lb of tq at the end... I didn't touch timing (16 degrees for every plot mentioned here) or cam gears yet, and partial throttle tuning is yet to be done. The car is fun to drive with the ATS final drive, but I still miss my old spec B setup... it absolutely KILLED this car in the power department... by 8whp/ 11 ft-lb at 3200 and always 10-15whp higher ACROSS THE BOARD. I don't know who says spec b's aren't good for stock compression, cause they kick ***!



(red and blue are spec b's, green is stock cams. The rest of the mods are the same.....)

I'm trying to decide whether to swap the b's or c's into this motor since they had such nice gains... (I have a set of each laying around), or just go turbo... or spec a's (or both..... )

And here's the last bit of interesting news..... a local buddy with his itr and aem cai with bypass valve/ jdm 4-1 header, high flow cat and stock exhaust put down 175whp and more tq than me at the same dyno. So for all you bolt-on only guys, the dc jdm 4-1 might not be so bad, eh? Save you some big $.....


Modified by Black R at 9:11 PM 8/11/2003

RTW DC2R

sounds fun I wish I could play with mine on the dyno some more.

Type-Rare#1248

i wish i had a hytech header

StinkyTofu

Nice review black r. However, don't you think your baseline runs were lower than average? I've seen stock ITR's pull better then 158whp. I know there are a bunch of variables when it comes to dynoing a car, so its not really fair to compare dynos as dynos are really only good for tuning purposes. I say put some C's in there. You had B's before, so step up to the C's

Have any good hytech vs toda reviews? I remember reading that you sold the toda header in favor for the hytech.

H-PIMP

Very nice bolt on set up.

98itR484

nice *** review

Cant wait to put wire up my vafc and throw my camgears on and hit the dyno,

I pulled a baseline of 186whp/124tq with stock intake SMS header, carsound cat, and custom 2.5inch exhaust to a spoon n1 (got dynos to prove before you call BS ) I hope i cant hit the 190whp zone with some camgear/vafc tuning.

Arno

RockstarJR

Nice ken...

Throw those cams in there and let us know what you put down then...

pyromaster

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Black R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">And here's the last bit of interesting news..... a local buddy with his itr and aem cai with bypass valve/ jdm 4-1 header, high flow cat and stock exhaust put down 175whp and more tq than me at the same dyno. So for all you bolt-on only guys, the dc jdm 4-1 might not be so bad, eh? Save you some big $.....</TD></TR></TABLE>
you forgot to add P/S was removed here's my plot

-jeff, who'se hijacking kenny's thread

Asahi

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by StinkyTofu &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Nice review black r. However, don't you think your baseline runs were lower than average? I've seen stock ITR's pull better then 158whp. I know there are a bunch of variables when it comes to dynoing a car, so its not really fair to compare dynos as dynos are really only good for tuning purposes. I say put some C's in there. You had B's before, so step up to the C's

Have any good hytech vs toda reviews? I remember reading that you sold the toda header in favor for the hytech. </TD></TR></TABLE>

If Black R was at Dyno lab like Jeff was it is considered reading lower than normal. 158 there is about 162-163 somewhere else. Still low but better.

SMSP

Time to play with the cam gears.

The green line below (164/118) is of George's ITR with stock manifold/cat/cat back and just a CompTech CAI. I believe George said it dyno'd at 158/159 priot to the CAI but at a different dyno.

350

not bad

SiRkid

Philly_NBP_R

nice - thanks for posting up the tuning info...

SergEK

Sounds good......my 00 R motor aem shorty ram(2.5"piping), DC jdm 4-1,. 2.25 catback, vafc toda cam gears(+2 intake, - 4 exhaust).....175/ 129 @5200 (mid range tuned)

Feels good on the street X-over @ 4800 no jumps or loss of torque...gained about 8-10ftlbs in that region when lowering the X-over.

I think with a better intake and header I could see 185+ but the intake was free and the header was $140 (used)...so....gotta wait.

Plans are for JUN 3's, Toda valve springs, standalone, 12:1 comp (CTR pistons if they allow enough clearance), SMS header, 2.5"cat back, 310's and testing different intakes....V2 most likely but still need to test before I can decide.

So far with with just I/H its run a 13.6-7 @ 101 with an EK so the motor is decently strong....your obsevations follow what I have experienced so far although lately I put a CTR ecu in and lost a little power...my guess is timing and low octane (91 vs 95 ron) is to blame but....good review

Austin

Ken...the gears and an ecu will make a huge difference...trust me, I've been there. And the my car tuned on B's vs tuned on stock cams...stock cams kicked it's ***.

Black R

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Austin &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Ken...the gears and an ecu will make a huge difference...trust me, I've been there. And the my car tuned on B's vs tuned on stock cams...stock cams kicked it's ***.</TD></TR></TABLE>


.....I remember, you stock cam plots pretty much look as good or better than my old spec b plots!

I will do hondata and was thinking of trying the mugen intake.

But damn, I want to try spec a's too! LOL

ActiveAero

I think the weirdness of your dyno plot is directly proportional to your fingernail length.

B2FiNiTY

iTrader: (2)

Pryo- you have some MAD VTEC dip right there. Jeez....

Black R

.....a vafc will fix that.

pyromaster

LOl- you brought this thread back to say that?

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Black R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">.....a vafc will fix that. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Michael Delaney

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Black R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I don't know who says spec b's aren't good for stock compression, cause they kick ***!


</TD></TR></TABLE>

nice work.

I think the comment was that these cams make more power synergistically with a 12: 1 CR setup.

re: definition of synergy: an increase that is greater than the mathematical sum of the individual increases attributed to each individual component.

The longer the ABDC intake cam spec and cam overlap, the more cylinder pressure you will lose. Less cylinder pressure means less force to turn the crank as long as the piston top is being pushed at the right rod to crankshaft angle at the right time (i.e. when does peak cylinder pressure occur in terms of crankshaft degrees? ). To recapture the loss of cylinder pressure, you use a higher CR.


The fact that Toda doesn't make OTS 11.0:1 or 11.5:1 pistons for the B16a should tell you something. It's not a happenstance or co-incidence that their pistons range from 12-12.5:1 CR.

no disrespect to your stock ITR gains which are great but those spec B cams are meant to support over 200 whp engines in the right combination.

NA gs-R 05 C

good #'s.

HYREV2NR

Sounds good man! You've given me some ideas about my VAFC. Thanks!

fredtoast

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PacMan ITR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I pulled a baseline of 186whp/124tq with stock intake SMS header, carsound cat, and custom 2.5inch exhaust to a spoon n1 (got dynos to prove before you call BS ) I hope i cant hit the 190whp zone with some camgear/vafc tuning.

Arno</TD></TR></TABLE>

What was your stock baseline.

Spoond TEG

Average Stock Baseline of a USDM ITR has been around 168 or there about. Ofcourse there are other factors involved. Perhaps that Dyno was off But they are just a gauge as to what is going on. Even if it is Lower than Average and 10hp gain is still a 10 hp gain