sauceman

For all you experts and/or guys who have tried this mod before, I need your advise.
I have a 95 ex accord with an automatic tranny, stock engine and tranny (f22b1, i think) I got 575,000 kms or something like 360,000 miles on it (that's because I use it for work, travelling is a big part of it). The actual engine has 125,000 miles on it, as I had it replaced. As I have quite a big budget for fuel and maintenance, I can't afford any kind of mods on the car. I've only done a few of the basic bolt-ons like the dc headers, tanabe cat-back exhaust, and a cold air intake, where the engine compartment is concerned.

The next logical step for me would be to put on some underdrive pulleys, which I have started buying already for the accessories. They are unorthodox pulleys (supposedly good ones). Now I go for the crankshaft damper pulley, and I want to buy the unorthodox pulley so I can install the whole package at once.

And here's where my questions start: The guy I buy them from tells me that I must also work on the other side of the crankshaft in order to reduce the same amount of rotationnal masses equally on both sides of the engine, because if I don't, I might soon notice that one or two main bearings get a severe beating with unequal vibrations on the crankshaft (hope I'm not getting lost there).

Is this true? Any of you with experience with this mod have noticed anything after 20, 40, 80, or even 120k or even more? Or does it look just like a way to make me spend more money than I can afford for a fake peace of mind?

Thanks for the insight on this.

Gennady

He's BSing you. Only the crank pully spins the crank.

sauceman

what do you mean exctly by the crank pully spinning the crank

Gennady

From what I read, the guy said you need a second crank pully on the other side of the crank to keep it balanced. You dont need a second pully.

sauceman

No, that's not exactly what the guy told me.
What he meant was, if I lighten the pully by, say 10 pounds, I also have to lighten either the flywheel or the torque converter or both by 10 pounds also, to make the damping equal on both sides of the engine.


Modified by sauceman at 3:48 PM 4/9/2005

Mr Ben

What he is saying is with those underdrive crank pulleys, you lose your harmonic balancer. This will wear out your front main bearings pretty quick, usually within 40K miles. I think what he is trying to say is to get a lighter flywheel? I'm not sure, I've never heard that. Either way you will eat bearings with those. THe AEM set doesn't have the crank pulley. They won't give you as much HP but, hey, your bearings won't get eaten.

GimpyAccord

I have UR underdrive crank pulley and:

Okay, first of all dont do this mod.

Second of all dont do this mod.

Third of all if you wanna lighten something lighten your flywheel.

sauceman

why not do this mod, and why more the flywheel?

iam7head

Just dont mess with pulley kit...not even a big gain..like what? 3-5 whp? not even.
and you talking about shortening your engine life(not alot but still).
Get some nice clutch or flywheel instead.

GimpyAccord

3-5hp? hehe thats being optimistic

basically i cracked a crank once (i attribute the loss of the harmonic balancer to that), and on both engines i've had in this car i have nothing but OIL LEAKS from the front main seal because of this thing.

If i still had the stock pulley it would have been back on in a heartbeat

niedejb

If anyone wants a new UR crank pulley...black...I've got one.

I also have the stock F22b1 pulley if you want.

GimpyAccord

i'd like to do business on that stocker... err i'll pm you

after i get that i have a pretty red/purplish on UR i'll sell cheap


[Modified by GimpyAccord, 1:48 AM 10/30/2002]

3700 Vtec

GimpyAccord how long did you have your ur pulley on before you stared haveing trouble?

I've had mine on for about 4k mi. My 2000 accord only has about 25,000 miles on it now.

GimpyAccord

I've had it on 3.5 years and prolly about 150,000 miles.




ahh nothing like a leaky front main seal every 10k miles.. i dont even replace them anymore.

gringo7718

damn!! this was an interesting topic, thanks for the advice gimpyaccord i appreciate it.

GimpyAccord

heh, well i mean 'your milage will vary' i hear lots of people have no bad luck... but the majority of what i hear isnt so good.

every engines different.. especially on a super-mass-produced vehicle like the Accord.

sauceman

Ok thanks Gimpy for the accurate experience on this question. Niedejb also seems to have really weel built his engine too, and without having touched the underdrive crank pulley, though he did change the accesories' pulleys, and the crankshaft, for which he feels rather strongly.
I understand there is a harmonic balancer you would lose in the crank pulley by replacing it for an UR. But on the other hand, isn't the original flywheel heavier than a UR (10lbs vs 20lbs for the stock flywheel). So wouldn't it have an even greater influence in damping the vibrations coming in from the engine internals?
And Niedejb, I saw on your site you have changed your flywheel in stage2 of your mods, along with the turbo kit. If you knew about the difference it made, would you have done it earlier?

SOHCArchangel

inline makes 2-pc lighter crank pulleys with the dampener/balancer just like the stock unit, but uses silicone in stead of rubber for the dampener last i heard

GimpyAccord

that sounds kinda interesting.....

looking back if i was going to worry about the small HP gain i got (if any to be honest) i would have done the AEM accessory pulleys. Im dumping PS anyway (the biggest draw IMO) so its all moot now anyway.

sauceman

Inline? I don't know of this company. Maybe not available in cda. Do they have a website? How much would the pulley be worth? Any guarantees concerning the side effects on the crank, seals, etc?

dvp95

Here is what Joe wrote from UR. I was asking about the crank pullies and the stories that ive been hearing about the oil pump and bearings.

People are getting the pulleys confused with the harmonic dampers found on 90 degree V8 and V6 engines. The pulleys on most of the new import engines have a rubber ring incorporated into them like the dampers which is there for noise suppression from the A/C compressor, P/S pump and the alternator, What the manufacturers call NVH (Noise Vibration & Harshness) when referring to passenger compartment noticeable noise and vibration. If you look at some of the pulleys on older imports there is no rubber to be found. I have samples of mostly Honda, An Altima, 1.8L Eclipse, 2.3L Ford, Chrysler 2.2L, 1.8L VW and a few others all with no rubber. The purpose of a traditional harmonic damper is to keep the crank from cracking which is not necessary on your engine. The pulleys have been out there running for over 5 years and there have been no complaints to us. There is a lot of internet hearsay about the pulleys, anyone saying anything bad has not actually tried the parts. You really have nothing to worry about. If you would
like to read more info on the subject, visit the FAQ section on our web site or you
can
contact me directly at
(631)-586-9525 Ext. 12

Joe ///M

The engine he is referring to is a 98 h22a

GimpyAccord

reply to him: people who DO own their products are complaining, have complained, and i was told i was an idiot.

its a shame i threw away that crack that developed a crank.

when he speaks of V8's: most V8's have an imbalance on the flywheel/flexplate and is countered by the harmonic balancer on the front of the crank. For example SBF 302 uses 50oz imbalance. when you goto UDP's on a car like my Ford you just swap the pulley thats attached to the harmonic balancer.

something tells me honda put rubber rings on its crank pullies on most of its engines for more than just accessory noise. that noise would transmit through the crankshaft and over time who knows what could happen without a study.


[Modified by GimpyAccord, 10:16 AM 10/31/2002]

sauceman

This sounds quite logical. Noise is a vibration, so it must have long term effects

SOHCArchangel

yes it was a rubber piece that gets hardened as the years pass by,

http://www.inlinepro.com/

GimpyAccord

On machines like say an jet airplane they do all sorts of metal studys on how the constant vibration will effect engine mounts to the wings etc. A prime example of metalurgy failures due to vibrations are Lockheed Electra aircraft that in the 1950's experienced engines seperating from them and essentially killing all aboard

I realize that was a REALLY off the wall comparison, but how does someone who peddles 100 dollar pullies know what the long term effects really are?


[Modified by GimpyAccord, 1:21 AM 11/1/2002]