RaVAGE00

I just wanted some info on possible disadvantages to an ATS FD. I have done the searches and basically only read of advantages to this mod. However, I know the ATS must present itself with disadvantages.... The application - daily driver with mild track use. Other mods that will be installed along with the ATS FD, TODA FW and Exedy Sport Clutch kit....

I originally wanted the JDM FD, however, since it seems nobody has them in stock I decided on the ATS... Should I just wait for the JDM unit?

Thanks in advance.

Rodney

sure there are disadvantages to the ATS 4.929 final. the are 12% reduced fuel economy (blah!, it's about performance anyway...), a little buzzier on the highway (500 rpm higher @ 80mph), and on certain roadrace courses, on certain corners without a higher redline, it will make you caught between gears (99% of the time, not.) and it will make you wallet a little lighter. advantages? simple. more pulling power in each gear all the time. best bang for the buck mod, plain and simple. oh, i had both the jdm final (4.78) and the 4.929, so speak of experience, not hearsay. ATS=

Misfit

My opinion is gas mileage. But if you are worried about that. get yourself an insight.

DarthLuder

Slower 1/4 miles times. (cough who give a ****)

fowler!

I thought they were a tad quicker?

edit: quicker, not higher


[Modified by Greg Flower, 9:34 AM 7/28/2002]

migs

I cant tell from your sarcasm but wouldnt the ATS give you faster 1/4 times?

nEoMuGen

All I know is that 1st gear traction would be horrible with the ATS. Maybe bad 60'ft.

Asahi

Would be? Have you driven one? ANyone with an ATS have traction problems? All about clutch slipping . . .

1GreyTeg

Untrue, ESPECIALLY if the car is close to stock. Now with some aggressive cams or serious motor work you may have more issues with traction but, you would have those issues anyway and traction can be dealt with in a myriad of ways;

1) learning how to launch or launch differently
2) tire pressures
3) stickier tires or specific R compuonds for specific applications IE slicks for 1/4 mile if thats your game
4) harder motor mount bushings
5) traction bars
4) ultimately a better LSD down the road If the power is just too much

So, there are several a ways to increase traction if Need be.

But, the statement that the ATS/FD limits traction to the point of being uncontrollable or in a negative fashion is just untrue. Nothin personal Ray, just want to keep things very clear.

The main argument about the ATS 4.93 is that the time spent in each gear is shortened and your top speed in each gear is lower, So one drag racer may say: "I don't want to have to shift that early." This is debatable depending on the level of power mods done to the car.

The Real point to this Drag/Course debate Is, that the ATS/FD wasn't created with the sole purpose of accelerating in a straight line. It better benefits the ITR through the corners and twisties by allowing more TQ to be put to the ground in the low, middle and high end of the cars gearing.

If need be I'm sure Rodney could provide mor einsight into the 1/4 mile debate. Not trying to put you on the spot R.

Good luck,

A.

PS glad to see someone wanted a topic for the negatives, this is a good idea if you are trying to mod and shop objectively.

PPS the only negative I can forsee is just what everyone else already stated, lower top speed in each gear But, IMHO the provided power far outweighs the negative that can be overcome in a few other different ways.

uNF$@#!

Like GreyTeg said, completely false. I have had the opportunity to drive a ITR with ATS installed and it was definately great. Never a 1/4 timed, but the first gear presented no problem with traction...no more than a stock ITR 1st would present, even with a launch.

As far as negatives, higher RPM during highway driving, but its very minimal. Asides that, worse mile/gallon, and more frequency of switching gears.

I'd like to hear from ITR GURU why he mentioned a slow 1/4 time. I wasnt given the opporunity to redline 4th...but I thought it would be still above the 100 mph mark...




[Modified by Soup ****, 12:54 PM 7/28/2002]

Rodney

well, it is not that bad with 194 whp. i got a 1.907 60' on slicks, and 2.2 on street tires, street pressure. when i build the motor, i will install the ATS 2.9 first, but that's not for a long time....

edit... this is all with -3 degrees negative camber. maybe i just have a better feel, i dunno....


[Modified by rodney, 12:53 PM 7/28/2002]

RagingAngel

The ATS 2.9 is no longer available....

hail the new 3.077.... only 1st gear on the counter must be changed....

significant value over the old 2.9.....

I would do any final drive (unless it is lower than stock 4.4) with a longer 1st gear...

So the ONLY disadvantage I see would be cost.... if you can't afford to buy both gears and or you can't afford to pay for labor (if you are not mechanically inclined) then this can get quite expensive.....

Rodney

lol, for you it isn't..........i have one though, jst waiting to go in.

JohnnyBoy

Not sure how it would make the 1/4 slower....You have to just shift into 4th anyways stock.....might as well be deeper into 4th to take advantage of the gearing.

RagingAngel

DOH!! You musta picked it up for a good price too.....!!

RaVAGE00

So, the disadvanges are:

1. Bad gas consumption (not really worried about this)
2. More frequent shifting of gears (I knew this going in)
3. Expensive (tell me about it)
4. Worse 1/4 times (I actually thought a FD would improve this)
5. Wheel spin (Well, I can combat this in a number of ways)

These are the disadvantages I have read about, please verfiy if they are true or just plain old horse ****.

1. Higher RPMs will eventually damage engine. (???)
2. Slower light to light and 1/4 times (YO, U knowz I have To repreZent, YO )
3. If installing ATS FD, really should install a taller first gear (TOO much money to consider )
4. Humming noise when driving (apparently this noise presents itself when installing any FD, but is more noticable with the ATS unit)

Asahi

Just want to say thatr my lightly modded R goes to fourth for an annoyingly short time in the 1/4 to run 14.6's at 90 degrees. I can't wait for the ATS to get here so that the shift to fourth won't seem so wasted.

Although drag racing isn't my scene I do it from time to time and do see the benefit.

I have done a LOT of calculating and self debating and I think the BIGGEST negative for me is the rpms in 5th. I have what we might tearm a "heavy" foot. I cruis at about 85mph - 90 mph and that puts me at about 5470 rpms. A little higher than I care for. A lot of the guys will make fun but GSR 5th gear pouts you at 5070 so you can see a benefit plus better gas mileage which I really coudl care less about.

Dr Pooface

According to Mike K the ATS is good for .1 on the 1/4.

I've had the ATS FD for about 6 months. I drive in the city and highway, but not every day. I've drivin to California and back (5500 kms). I've been to three track events.

When I first installed it I had traction problems in first, but that was on old stock tires. Azenis cured that.

On the local road course I run out of 3rd down the second straight, and I run out of second comming out of turn 7 (have to shift in the last third of the corner, while heading for a wall).

I think the worst disadvantage of the ATD FD is how stupid you look when you run it for the first time and you have that HUGE grin all over your face. Worth every penny IMO.

Dr Pooface

Everything eventually breaks

Not true

Why bother? Traction isn't that bad.

Not that noticable, and fades with time.



[Modified by Ddub, 10:31 AM 7/28/2002]

ITR18

It seems to me that having to shift too early into 2nd and 3rd might create some time loss because you wouldent spend as much time in the main power bands and would waste time shifting...but this is just based on reasonable logic and experiance in GT3

Asahi

more like you get to the power band faster and can stay in it in each gera.

RagingAngel

JDM FD OwnZ you!!! Hell you'd own me on the track....I haven't even been to the local track except to do hillbilly style racing.....



to track days!

Dr Pooface

You stay in the powerband regardless of your FD.

Dr Pooface

There is one left in October, you should come. Check out http://performancedriversclub.org/ for more info.

Asahi

True, was more illustarting that you were getting to the powerband faster and still able to stay in that band.