TrU-HoNdA-HeAd

Hello all, Im looking into buying the CTR N1 crank pulley from icb but had some questions. The ad says its balanced from factory, but Ive read on other older forums that the pulley is not balanced and i would need to take it to a machine shop to balance it. Has anyone had any problems with this pulley or had to get it balanced? I was also considering buying the pulley plus belt combo, would anyone recomend this or just buying the 90 -91 integra belt seperately? Thanks in advance for the responses.

doing my first swap, b16a from an ef8 into an 89 crx hf.

Janos Lin

Theyre just talking about the lack of harmonic dampening. I had the balance on mine checked when they balanced the bottom end, no problems there. Just a bit of lightening on the flywheel.

Janos

SIred91

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Janos Lin &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Theyre just talking about the lack of harmonic dampening. I had the balance on mine checked when they balanced the bottom end, no problems there. Just a bit of lightening on the flywheel.

Janos</TD></TR></TABLE>

That should work fine, If its not a DD that you expect to last another 100k miles...
No offense, but I just wouldnt, use any pulley that is not an oem damper for a motor that I expect not to work on, on a semi regular basis.

TrU-HoNdA-HeAd

so... at least for now, just use the stock one until im ready to get the bottom end balanced? or using this pulley is gonna cause me to have to do routine pulling and maintinance of the motor?

zrickety

iTrader: (1)

i have this pulley and it works great...the stock b16 pulley was damaged and chewing up my radius rod. it 'feels' really good and if you need the belt size i'll go look, i think i experimented with a few different lengths to get the best fit. i'm unaware of any extra maintenance because of this pulley

Branman

bump for the belt size becuase I am far too lazy to hit the search button rt now. Not that I'm some super car guru but imho I think the lack CTR pulley destroying oil pumps is a myth. I have searched that topic before and for every person that says its destroyed their oil pump another has had it for years with no problems...

sanimalp

examples of why i don't run a ctr n1 pulley..

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1354739
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=2271058



Modified by sanimalp at 10:41 PM 6/29/2008

D16SiHatch

Well i guess instead of making another thread pertaining to this, i'll just inquire here.

My stock ls pulley is rubbing the traction bars on my hatch. should i have a machine shop cut off the a/c and p/s ribs. or should i get one of these ctr pulleys. recently i've been reading about how they supposedly tear engines apart cause they're not balanced. So what should i do?

KevinT707

I've been using the CTR crank pulley for years and have never had problems. Took a few tries to find the right belt size though.

D16SiHatch

So this would work then? or any suggestions where a better place to get it from might be, or for cheaper?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...ZWDVW

edit: maybe from here. plus i'd get the matching belt with it..
http://yhst-1408381693991.stor....html

And do you have any issues with the alternator charging. Since effectively this would be like putting an underdrive on it.


Modified by D16SiHatch at 8:37 PM 6/29/2008

zrickety

iTrader: (1)

i have the 290K4 belt, which i believe fits perfect...allows for good adjustment. i also have been running the CTR/N1 pulley for 2 years, daily driving, no problems.

you'll need this pulley or a good underdrive pulley (check ebay) to clear the traction bars. and no problems with the alternator charging, even at 700 rpm

zrickety

iTrader: (1)

hey i was just wondering if you guys that ran the CTR pulley installed it with some grease on the inner sleeve. i have some instructions that said to do that. it may help with some of the harmonic issues, although i haven't had any before or after i did it.

B18C5-EH2

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sanimalp &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">examples of why i don't run a ctr n1 pulley..

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1354739
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=2271058

Modified by sanimalp at 10:41 PM 6/29/2008</TD></TR></TABLE>

Poor examples IMO.

First is a freaking BOOSTED engine, and the second is a *gasp!* LS/VTEC.

Here's a great reason to run a CTR pulley:



I've ran the CTR pulley for SIX YEARS WITH ZERO ENGINE ISSUES, EVER - and that includes ripping the **** out of the stock B18C5 it's bolted to during numerous auto-X days and instruction sessions.




Modified by B18C5-EH2 at 5:00 PM 8/7/2008

soulpwr

I've never had issues with my ctr pulley on 2 built b20vtecs, 4 years of abuse, street driven, road raced, drag you name it, i've done it.
And honestly, do you think Honda would spend millions of dollars to design and mass produce something without testing it? Or do so only to have some kid with probably no engineering background blow some stuff up and say hey you guys dont know dick about whats going on inside a motor? I doubt it. Engines fail for lots of reasons and if your gonna blame harmonics, explain all the guys that remove or delete the balancer on h series motors. If those are a few teeth off the whole car vibrates like crazy so to remove it all together should.......

sanimalp

the n1 pulley was specifically made for the honda CTR n1 race car. Race cars have a lot different priority regarding engine longevity than those of us daily driving do. It is just a fluke that they sell them through the dealership.

My statement is this: If you were to ask what a Mechanical Engineer had to say about running an undamped crank pulley on a daily driver, what would they say?

My thought is that on a daily driver, or an engine for which longevity is valued, they would say: Don't do it. The harmonics involved in a running IC engine are bad, and cause metal and bearing fatigue.

For an engine who's sole purpose is to win races, or be as fast as possible, then undamped might be the way to go depending on number of cylinders and internal balance, metal fatigue be damned. If it breaks, you rebuild it or buy another one.

The choice at the end of the day is up to you. I can tell you, the day I consider my car a full out race car, I would consider putting an n1 pulley on. Right now though, I still drive my car every day to and from work, and I don't want to walk.

as a bonus question, why is it soooo important not to run a ctr n1 pulley on a boosted engine, but its ok to run on a NA? Times up kids! the answer is that engine harmonics never go away. They just become more or less strong depending on the the output of the engine.

I am surprised i have to repeat this, but "anecdotes to the contrary do not disprove a physical property of a system".

gearhead16

just put one on my crx and still it still runs just as smooth all the way to 9500 been on for 4 months not no problems its a honda product honda isnt gona make something out of balance like aftermarket pulleys

GroundZer0 336

ive never had any kind of problem with mine! dd'd for over a year with about 80 miles every day. its an ls motor w/ a little headwork but still...i rip the **** out of it. anddd its got the stock oil pump, with about 120k miles on it...dont you think that would have gone before you guys with the rebuilt engines and new pumps? im thinking people have other problems and like to blame the small things.

(edit) oh, and when i took my stock one off i cut it in half...to see if there was anything in it that would dampen...did the same with my stock d16a6 pully before, and i saw nothing...just metal. that brings up another point...why would machining a stock pully down to one belt and balance it? wouldnt it be the same?


Modified by GroundZer0 336 at 8:25 PM 8/7/2008

sanimalp

the a6 pulley has a thick rubber band in between the alternater pulley race and the center hub of the pulley. If you get the pulley machined, that rubber belt is still there.

turbo91hatch

I put one on a ls vtec that had 20k miles on the motor prior to the pully. After the pully was installed it took less than 500 miles before the oil pump gear broke into 10 peices. The motor put down 468whp and reved to 8k. It also had eagle h beam rods and arias pistons balanced with the flywheel and crank. Use this info for your own conclusion.

B18C5-EH2

How is it a fluke exactly? It's a factory stock part offered on a limited production vehicle. They also sell the 5 lug steel wheels that come on the CTR race base model too - is that also a "fluke?"

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">My statement is this: If you were to ask what a Mechanical Engineer had to say about running an undamped crank pulley on a daily driver, what would they say?</TD></TR></TABLE>

They'd probably say get a true fluid dampener/harmonic balancer. they'd also say avoid revving to 8000rpm too, because RPM = ruins people's motors.



<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">My thought is that on a daily driver, or an engine for which longevity is valued, they would say: Don't do it. The harmonics involved in a running IC engine are bad, and cause metal and bearing fatigue.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Well my B18C5 was daily driven for 3 years or more, and driven HARD. Don't know what to tell you man.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">For an engine who's sole purpose is to win races, or be as fast as possible, then undamped might be the way to go depending on number of cylinders and internal balance, metal fatigue be damned. If it breaks, you rebuild it or buy another one.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Actually many teams budgets are so awesome that they'd not waste their time with an off the shel CTR pulley when they can have a harmonic balancer/dampener anyways.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The choice at the end of the day is up to you. I can tell you, the day I consider my car a full out race car, I would consider putting an n1 pulley on. Right now though, I still drive my car every day to and from work, and I don't want to walk. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Well I have yet to have to walk anywhere.



<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">as a bonus question, why is it soooo important not to run a ctr n1 pulley on a boosted engine, but its ok to run on a NA? Times up kids! the answer is that engine harmonics never go away. They just become more or less strong depending on the the output of the engine. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Hmmm...I'm not a kid, but I'll play anyways.

Look I don't care if an engine is boosted or not - I was pointing out that your "examples" of why not to use the N1 pulley were poor examples, because one was boosted and the other is a questionable LS/VTEC build to begin with.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I am surprised i have to repeat this, but "anecdotes to the contrary do not disprove a physical property of a system". </TD></TR></TABLE>

...just like your attempts to post "examples" if others' misfortunes doesn't prove that the CTR pulley destroys engines either.



In the end I don't care if you run a CTR pulley or not. Honda isn't paying me to prop the pulley. All I am sayijg is that for those people who think it's instant death for your engine, i can only offer my own personal experience with mine.

sanimalp

I think we are on the same page, just reading from a different line..

My whole point is to simply provide some evidence(just as you are) that there might be more issues with the N1 pulley than what people on H-T will generally tell you about. There are plenty of anecdotes going both ways about the safety/danger of running these pulleys. My point is: if you go deeper into this topic to see what is going on from a physical standpoint, they probably aren't a good idea unless your priority is full out racing. In reality, it really is how much risk you are willing to take with the engine you have. For some of us, the risk is too high, all things considered.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B18C5-EH2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">How is it a fluke exactly? </TD></TR></TABLE>

As far as the N1 pulley being a fluke, the part is not engineered to be put on a street vehicle. All the rest of honda's crank pulleys all have a damper of some sort installed, this one does not.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B18C5-EH2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">All I am saying is that for those people who think it's instant death for your engine, i can only offer my own personal experience with mine. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I don't think it is instant death at all. The risk, for me, is simply too great given the evidence I have observed and given the strange primary and secondary balance of a 4 cylinder engine. You said it first, and I will repeat it: if you want a different pulley or lighter pulley etc, get a fluidamper or similar pulley.

Killa_eK

i keep hearing about this unbalanced ish man i splapped that thing on at my friens shop in like 5 min and started smashing on it right away car runs fine and i was using nitrous on the car

crxsleeper210

ive had the n1 pulley on my 1st gen b16 since the day i installed the motor (about 2 years ago)...ive had zero issues so far reving to 8200 quite a few times..the motor iss stock with the exception of a 98 itr header... I wouldnt use it on a heavily built all motor or turbo car without expecting some kind of issues down the road.......i think it should be fine for a mild street car...I think that installed on a b16 which is the motor it was meant for would be less risky than a b18 or b20. This is just my experience hope it helps

143MYVTECEF

i run the ctr pulley on my ls motor for about 10000 miles and I've had no issues. This issue will never die. Run what you want and trust that someone will always find a reason for it not to work. This part is manufactured and sold by Honda. it will not grenade your motor. Miss shifting or ill tuning will. So make your own decision and be happy.