Catch 22

Has anyone had difficulty breaking the front lower control arm loose from the lower ball joint on a Civic or Integra?
So far, I've bent a puller and got a fork separator (aka: "picklefork") stuck in there and the thing hasn't budged.
I even stopped at Sears on the way home today and picked up the super heavy duty Craftsman puller from hell. I tightened it as hard as I could with an 18" breaker bar and the damned thing STILL won't break loose.

I'm beginning to believe the evil thing has welded itself. It is pretty close to the brake rotor, which gets hot enough to melt the boot.

All I wanted to do was change the damned boot. The ball joint is fine. At least it was before I started hammering on it .

Is there a special tool I'm missing? A Honda "mega leverage" puller of some sort?

Scott, continuing his maddening tradition of always having issues with the "simple" stuff.

Back in Black

There is a "ball-joint remover" in the Helms manual, but...

I jack the rotor up just enough to get a breaker bar in between the top of the joint and the arm. With the leverage, you should be able to pop it apart...

Jason-
who thinks damaging the boot with those "fork separators" sucks


[Modified by Jason Franza, 7:36 PM 6/18/2002]

Tyson

had the same problem. i had tightened it too much before which made it impossible to loosen. i tried everything as well (BFH, various sized pickleforks, pitman arm puller), the guys are autozone were wondering what i was working on after coming in every day renting a different tool. since i knew i was going to replace the ball joint anyway, i ended up taking the suspension apart and sawing it off. and even AFTER i separate the lower control arm, what was left of the threads was still stuck in there and that alone was near impossible to push out, even using a bigass clamp from a bearing press. so, what i finally did was drill it out, the goal being to take out the inside of the balljoint thread so that its nearly thin wall and not exerting any more force. that finally did it, but it was a big pain. there really wasnt another way, taught me not to OVER tighten that castle nut. (but dont under tighten it as your suspension will bounce as it unloosens)

Catch 22

The leverage thing didn't work. Neither did smacking the lower control arm with a hammer.

The ball joints were replaced a couple of years back by a mechanic that I no longer use because he kept messing things up.
I'm very afraid that this issue might keep me from Hyperfest. I don't have time to pull everything apart as Tyson mentioned and I don't think I have time to take it anywhere (ie: load it up and trailer it).

Any thoughts on the "ball joint removal" tool mentioned in the manual?

Scott, who is scheduled to work 12 hour shifts every single day (even the weekend) between now and Hyperfest.

Tyson

http://www.jcwhitney.com/item.jhtml?...=19652&BQ=jcw2

never used it so i cant comment. however helms illustrates this only for the tierod end and UBJ. the LBJ illustration shows a bigger gear puller type tool.






[Modified by Tyson, 5:14 PM 6/18/2002]

kenji

The ball joint remover tool is a real nice idea. But, it just takes too much time.

A 3 lb. sledge hammer works just fine.

Here is how you do it:

1. Take the 17mm castle nut off.

2. Rethread the castle nut back on about 4-5 threads. This will prevent you messing up the threads if you miss with the BFH (big farking hammer)

3. Turn the steering wheel all the way to either side (depending on if you need to do the passenger or driver side)

4. If you don't have a lift lay down on your side and line up the little 'tab' on the control arm with the hammer.

5. Give it a couple of good hits. If you are a man it will come off in about 1-3 hits.

That is all it takes. I have been doing it this way for years and have had no problems.

Good luck.

-kenji

Catch 22

The puller I'm using is just like the one illustrated, except its a more bad-*** model. I've put as much torque on it as I can with a breaker bar... no dice.

Oh yeah... about 1/2 can of WD-40 has gone into battle so far as well.

My current plan is to leave the puller on there as tight as I can get it, coat it with more WD-40, and leave it until I get home from work tomorrow. If that doesn't work, I guess I have to load it up and take it to OPM. They have neat stuff like impact wrenches and cutting torches.

Scott, who has given up for the evening.

Catch 22

Please clarify the "little tab." part.

Maybe I'm not done for the evening.

krshultz

Tyson you kick *** for posting a scan of the FSM

Scott, I do seem to remember one of the several times I had to disassemble the front end last year having a hard time, probably the first time. I ended up making a decision to just ruin the boot (since I was replacing the whole knuckle anyway) and just WAILED on the end of the pickle fork with a big *** hammer. A **REALLY** big hammer. Standing up and swinging downwards.

If that doesn't work...an air hammer might. Continuous, high powered shots with the air hammer can solve a lot of problems. Wear earplugs though (seriously).

The bad news here is that you're at risk of damaging the ball joint itself I'm afraid. But, if your experience is anything like mine was...that joint is toast anyway given your mileage and the conditions under which those miles were driven.

If I were you I might punt and deal with it after Hyperfest and/or after your work schedule calms down. I doubt the lack of a boot is going to hurt you for one weekend. But the joint might be toast when you get home.

Wish I could be of more help...

Warren

Beg, borrow, or steal a Honda ball joint seperator, or the 32mm Facom one. I keep having to beg Sebastian to use his.

If you're really nice, you can ask him to loan it to you for Hyperfest, and we can knock out that little boot on Friday.

If you're good enough, you can use a pickle fork (a really tall one) and split the sucker. SGT just take a big *** hammer and it usually pops right off. I am not nearly as accurate, or brave, and I just beg for the Facom from SJR

Warren

Wide Open Throttle

yep just beat on it with a hammer and it should come apart. the balljoint separators autozone loans will destroy the boot.

oh, and if you're thinking of replacing the factory boots with the boots that energy suspension sells, do not. my tierod balljoints are ruined because of them! use the factory honda boot.

Willard

Yes... Honda suspension spring force...

tools needed:
-floor jack
-1/2" ratchet

-while supported on jack stands.... jack the side in question up by the rotor (careful)
-insert handle end of the ratchet in just beside the dust boot (do not pinch), above the lower control arm, and below the suspension arm
-lower jack carefully and BAM! it will pop loose.

Kinda hard to explain.. but you are using the weight of the suspension and the downward force of the spring to push the assembly down. When it is in the down position... the wrench will not fit... when it is jacked up... the wrench will slide right in place. It will take some tricky placement to keep the boot safe and generate the correct force.. but it works.


I will try to get a pic...
Will

Catch 22

Thanks for all of the ideas.
Get that pic up if you can Will.

And saving the boot is not an issue. The fact that the boots are melted goo on the brake rotor side was the motivation for this ugly mess in the first place.

I'd still like to know what "tabs" you hit with the BFH (B.F. Hammer).

JeffS

I bought this thing... I'm not sure how to describe why it doesn't work, but it just doesn't.

Willard

the flat casting marks on the lower section of the joint.
(front and rear sides have them)

~1" wide
~1/2" tall

see the scanned image above.... the circular inset section has the tab drawn on the arm

Will
-who has taken the less abusive approach


[Modified by Willard, 10:08 PM 6/18/2002]

Willard

no picture yet... but this may help



look at the #7/#8 area of the arm...

insert the 1/2" ratchet handle just up and to the right of the ball joint hole.
use the same "entry path" as the #24 bolt is taking...(just a little bit closer to the joint)
The flat section of the arm where the ball joint/dust boot touches is not where the wrench touches the arm.. it is just a little bit inboard (towards #14 bushing) of the flat section...

Crosser

I had a hell of a time with the driver side of my CRX...I broke one of the ball joint remover tools I torqued it so hard. I finally used a propane torch and heated the LCA some not right at the ball joint, but a couple inches up. I came off pretty much no problem then. Good luck.

Johnny Tran

kenji is correct......this is the only method i have ever used.

although jack/D/ and the rest of the florida boys swear by the ratchet idea......you decide.

nick, who says if a three pound sledge isnt big enough, get a bigger hammer

TodaSi

When you rethread the castle nut on, invert it (screw it back on upside down) so you don't bend the castle tabs, plus it gives you a bigger target to hit.

il8apex

Toda-knows!

I've never actually separated the ball joints either. Just unbolt 'em and smack 'em through. Of course, it helps to have air tools... A quality impact wrench is SOOOO worth it!

-T

Black R

.....I use a pickle fork in a different manner. I wedge it in there, but not near the boot... then I use a 3' long bar and stand on it. POP and out it comes.

Let me dig up the link for you...

ugh, search still sucks... I'll keep looking and post the link tomorrow...

Honda318dx

DO NOT HAMMER THEM!! Even with the Nut upside down, I did this on my right rear control arm on the prelude, and bent the balljoint.. and I had a seperator right by my side... use the weight of the car like Will said....

Warren

Yo Willard. I don't think that will work when you're running 800 lbs springs up front I'm betting it won't work with a short stroke suspension either, but maybe Yack can chime in and answer that.

Warren

Black R

.....found one of my old threads:

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=106172

here's the quote:

Honda318dx

oh yea, PB BLASTER is your best friend!