mentality

guys i just got a 92 accord ex 2dr, the problem is the crank shaft is not turning, when u try to start i can see the stater spinning the fly wheel but not turning the crank shaft, funny thing is if i turn the crank shaft by hand i can c the fly wheel turning this doesnt make sense too me, for those who thinks timing belt borken i have the timing covers off so its not, if u guys know this engine there is a rectangual hole close to the start that u can see the starter spinning the fly wheel. any ideas would be help full .

Eddiebx

if the flywheel is spinning but not the crankshaft, then that means the crankshaft must have broke at the flywheel end.

it is physically impossible for the crankshaft to slip, because its bolted on to the flywheel with many bolts.

have u tried to see if u can spin the crankshaft, while holding the flywhelel still, with a big pry bar or something, through the rectangular hole?

if u can do that, then the crank shaft is probably borken.

mentality

no i havent tried that yet, i'll do it first thing 2morrow, im thinking u might be rite that the fly wheel is broken, i can tell u that # 1 and 3 piston are pumping if i move the crank as for the other 2 cylinders i didnt check so it's nearly impossible for the crankshaft to be broken, im thinking it's broken in a way that even if i turn the crank shaft with my hands its still hooking partially on the flywheel but when the starter gives the flywheel it full throttle its slipping. if this is the case whats the ezist way to replace this fly wheel (no hoist) and what can cause a fly wheel to brake like this?

mentality

guys it's the flange of the crankshaft that's broken off, i stuck a pry bar into the hole and brance the flange while turning the crank shaft and the flange is not turning, so the stater is spinning a flex plate with a broken crank shaft flange on it, now i was going to pull the engine to replace the flex plate but since its the crankshaft how much difficult is it with the engine out. it's a auto trans

mentality

bump

Hammer99ex

you have to take the trans out no matter what... after that, changing the crank is a matter of dropping the oil pan. you dont need to take the motor out. it will also be easier to move the pistons around if you take the spark plugs out, and relieve the compression in the cylinders. after you blast of the crank pulley nut, i believe its easiest to use a 3 jaw puller on that bad boy

Eddiebx

yep, drop the tranny, then u can get the crank out after u drop the oil pan.

personally i would pull out all the spark plugs and take a peek in and make sure all the pistons are moving up and down properly. god knows where else that crank is snapped. if u see some are not moving. i wouldnt waste time dropping the crank, it would be time for a new motor.

mentality

i would assume all piston are pumping because #1 is closest to the flange and thats pumping but i will still check, what can cause a crank shaft to brake like this, isnt the flex plate much weaker than the crank, how hard is it to replace once i have the tranny and oil pan out. the car is in good shape im an apprentice at chrysler i'll definately have to use the hoist at the shop for this job is it wroth it?

Eddiebx

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mentality &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i would assume all piston are pumping because #1 is closest to the flange and thats pumping but i will still check, what can cause a crank shaft to brake like this, isnt the flex plate much weaker than the crank, how hard is it to replace once i have the tranny and oil pan out. the car is in good shape im an apprentice at chrysler i'll definately have to use the hoist at the shop for this job is it wroth it?</TD></TR></TABLE>

oh if #1 is kicking then yeah sounds like all of them are moving, unless u have some freakky luck,

once u get the oil pan down, u will have to unbolt the windage tray and waht not, then unbolt the main bolts, and drop the girdle and main cap. but before u do that u ahve to unbolt the connecting rods too. i forget what u have to remvoe to get enough room to get to the connecting rod bolts. its been ages since i tore down a bottom end. but i;m sure u can figure it out

JimBlake

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mentality &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i would assume all piston are pumping because #1 is closest to the flange and thats pumping...</TD></TR></TABLE>#1 is closest to the pulleys. #4 is closest to the transmission. What's really moving? How do you know any of the pistons are actually moving? What about the camshaft?

Is it possible you simply have a broken crankshaft pulley at the front end?

mentality

i was reading the instructions on autozone for removing the crankshaft, it says u have to remove the engine, remove oil pump and front and rare balance shafts, is this correct. to me it would of been more ez to just remove the tranny and pull the crank shaft from the bottom, another thing is when looking through that hole on the engine i can see the flex plate to the left but theres also another part there thats a little smaller than the flex plate there, and i doubt it to be the crankshaft flange, on these engines does the crank flange bolt directly to the flex plate or is there another part between.

JimBlake

The oil pump has to come off the front of the engine too. I've never done it, but it seems like you can get that off with the engine in place.

Maybe they figure pulling the entire power package is about as easy as pulling the tranny & leaving the engine.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JimBlake &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Is it possible you simply have a broken crankshaft pulley at the front end?</TD></TR></TABLE>So... have you ruled out the easy stuff?

tsiah

it'll be a hundred times easier to install a used engine than to replace the crankshaft...

ujhonda

buy a good used motor, I install one in my accord 30K(used - from Junkyard) $900.00 CDN

mentality

im really getting confuse here, first off all the plate with the teeth that the starter spins is called the fly wheel rite? plus there's a flexplate between the flywheel and the crank flange? i wish i had a pic of what this accord flywheel looks like because from looking through the hole i can see the teeth or the fly wheel to the left and attach to it on the right is a round shape pully looking like wheel just a little smaller than the flywheel, i was thinking that was the flange of the crank shaft but a crank flange isnt that big so im guessing what im seeing is part of this flywheel, then this flywheel is not flat so so the the flexplate is after this then it could be a good chance the flex plate is broken and not the crank.

JimBlake

How's this... ?

Flywheel(#3) & clutch(#4&5) from manual tranny in the bottom half of the picture.

Your automatic is like the top picture. Number 7 is the flex plate, but Honda apparently calls it a drive plate. The gear teeth for the starter are actually on the torque converter itself (#6).

In both cases the engine is off the left of the picture. Imagine you're standing at the right-side door...

mentality

dude u feel like i owe u, thanks so much, that's exactly what im seeing now im pretty sure it's not the crankshaft thats broken, where did u get that pic from? i have mitchell but they dont have those pics, im going to be pulling the tranny saturday i'll keep u update.

JimBlake

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mentality &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">... where did u get that pic from?...</TD></TR></TABLE>
hondaautomotiveparts.com

But there's several dealer-type places that do internet mailorder business & they all seem to have exactly the same pictures.. I think the pictures come from Honda's Electronic Parts Catalog.

mentality

guys im going to have the car on a hoist when droping out the tranny, do i need to support the engine or would there still be enough engine mounts to hold, also i cannot leave the car on the hoist can i just put back the front wheels on the hub and roll it out the shop, my co worker told me leave the drive shafts in and and let them flop around other wise i can damage my wheel barings without them on.

ujhonda

yes you do...you must support the engine

JimBlake

Like uj says, you have to figure out a way to support the engine.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mentality &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">... can i just put back the front wheels on the hub and roll it out the shop, my co worker told me leave the drive shafts in and and let them flop around other wise i can damage my wheel barings without them on.</TD></TR></TABLE>
That might damage the wheel bearings. They need the preload of being clamped by the big axle nut. They probably won't come apart right away, but it'll kill their future lifespan.

Best is to have the outboard ends of scrap axles. Next best is go to a hardware store & get big BIG nuts bolts & washers to substitute for the end of the axle. The bearing should be clamped tightly together before it takes the weight of the car.

Honda-Master

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ujhonda &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">yes you do...you must support the engine</TD></TR></TABLE>

No you don't..
just make sure to install a bolt for the rear mount through the block and put a nut loosely on the other side so it does not come out ,, once you look at it you will know what i am talking about ,,

also,, take the axles totally out of the car, they slide out easily through the fork , reconnect the lower ball joint to control arm, attach the 17 mm castle nut , no need to tighten it up fully, put the wheels on and roll the car out
I have done it this way dozens and dozens of times with no damage to anything ( bearings ) now or in the future ..

mentality

that's what i thought thanks alot for clearyfiying that honda master.

F23Coupe

Crankshaft is one of the strongest parts in the engine. I doubt that you broke it, even if just the flange part of it. Do check the pulley like JimBlake says. But then hey, there's always a first time for everything. Update after you find out, will you?

JDM_DC4_Fanatic

I just want to make a few things clear for you, since you dont seem to be very knowledgeable on the subject.

1) Standard cars have a flywheel, it is weighted and has a friction surface for the clutch disc to grip on. Automatic cars have a flex plate, which is only used to mate the torque converter to the crankshaft to drive the transmission pump.

2) you can remove the trans from the car, with the engine still installed and it will support itself if you re-install the rear engine mount bolt.

3) you can not see the crankshaft flange from the timing mark hole.

4) it is nearly impossible to brake the crankshaft in the spot, and it is also next to impossible to snap all 8 hardened grade 8 bolts that secure the flywheel/flex plate to the crank.

In an attempt to solve your problem, please clarify some things for me.

1) is your car automatic or manual?
2) Are the pistons moving up and down when you turn the crankshaft bolt?
3) How are you checking to see if the pistons are moving?