Rocket

Why Degree Camshafts


Why degree camshafts and check v-v, p-v, ret-seal, rocker-ret, coil bind, lobe-rocker contact, lobe runout, cam straightness, cam bearing clearance.

Is it really necessary?? Sounds like alot of work to figure out 4 numbers besides the clearances.

Isn't taking a poll on cam gear settings sufficient for the DIY'er needs. Does Blox B = Skunk2 Stage 2 = modified JUN3 = Wicked Industries Stage 2 = CAT Stage 2 = Crespo Stage 2 = BC IV.

Can't you just look at markings on the end of the stick or look on the box and then ask for specs on the internet.

Yay for people who can step up. XXX for people he can't.

Cosworth Engineering as opposed to gansta engineering

pr0honda

if you are running large camshafts it is a must to degree them.. by degreeing them you know exactly where they put your clearances..


shawn

vti444

if your gonna do a job do it properly, if that means being **** about it then i trust that person more so

Rocket

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by pr0honda &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">if you are running large camshafts it is a must to degree them.. by degreeing them you know exactly where they put your clearances..


shawn</TD></TR></TABLE>

Which are the "large" camshafts that we should be careful of?

My new motto is "RPM" doesn't ruin peoples motor - improper installation of cams and timing belts does more damage than any incremental increase in rpm ever will do.

soulpwr

Ultimately you do it to make sure your sh*t wont blow up. And the large cams to beware of are all those rocket motorsports cams

miller

It has nothing to do with the size of the camshaft, this is something i have heard people say you dont need to do and that its over rated in an honda engine becasue you wont gain any power by doing it and yad yada yada. But that is totally false as most people should know. It does not matter the size of the cam in question when degreeing it in, that is all irrevelevant as the degreeing of your Camshaft simply means that you are synching the cams position with the cranks. A few degrees off can affect the engine's operation drastically. It does not matter how big or small the cam is.

Those pimp cam gears everybody buys are just for show

skunked

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Don Lackey &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
My new motto is "RPM" doesn't ruin peoples motor - improper installation of cams and timing belts does more damage than any incremental increase in rpm ever will do.</TD></TR></TABLE>

amen brotha.

Nice thread BTW

Rocket

Actually, another good question is why even degree stock cams on a bone stock motor?

strict 9 ef

CAT stage 2 any info on these?

DonF

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Don Lackey &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Actually, another good question is why even degree stock cams on a bone stock motor?</TD></TR></TABLE> Do not have to. They come from Honda and are perfect. JDM OEM buddie. If it were ment to be done, Honda would have done it. If any of you cam guy's could get indexing right, like Honda we could all use stock cam gears like Honda wanted.

Aquafina

iTrader: (3)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DonF &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">we could all use stock cam gears like Honda wanted. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Hey, I know of some aftermarket cams like that...

Scott_Tucker

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Don Lackey &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Actually, another good question is why even degree stock cams on a bone stock motor?</TD></TR></TABLE>

By advancing the intake cam you will increase the effective compression ratio - the compression ratio that is measured from the point of the intake valve closing, to TDC. Your effective compression ratio is very important to the production of power in an engine. It is the inverse of the expansion ratio. For a 4 Valve aluminum head like a Honda, your effective compression ratio should be around 8 - 8.5:1. The higher the effective compression, the more efficiently the engine makes power. By advancing the intake cam, the intake valve will open earlier. This means it's distance from the top of the piston at the point of intake valve closing thru to TDC, is longer, which increases your effective compression. If you have an older engine that has lost a small amount of compression, advancing the intake cam can help bring back that high effective compression ratio and it will make more power. If you advance the cam too much, though, the engine may detonate and you will need to back the cam off.

ToeJam

Here’s a better question. Why do YOU do it rocket?

I would like to see the tools that you use and hear the method involved when degreeing the camshafts.

Rocket

Who's Rocket? Sounds like some Cali spin doctor.

Anyways, I haven't degreed any cams yet. I will be soon. I have one of these big degree wheels (I've got a blue not red as pictured).

ShaunRR

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by toekneevwj &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Here’s a better question. Why do YOU do it rocket?

I would like to see the tools that you use and hear the method involved when degreeing the camshafts.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

You want some pimp tools for degreeing, talk to Mike Belben:

http://www.newenglandhondarebuilders.com/

Rocket

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DonF &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> Do not have to. They come from Honda and are perfect. JDM OEM buddie. If it were ment to be done, Honda would have done it. If any of you cam guy's could get indexing right, like Honda we could all use stock cam gears like Honda wanted. </TD></TR></TABLE>

What's indexing? We use an index plate made 295 years ago. The person who made the plate died about a year ago so we don't dare take the index plate off of "big red", Van Norman camshaft grinder.

In all seriousness though, it's nice to know what honda put their cams in at. There is a difference in lobe centers of the VTEC and Primary Lobes.

ImportechPerformance

I really want to learn and thats why I try reading these posts but, its like reading a book with half of the sentences taken out.

All in all they scare me...

goforbroke

Wow an informative post. I'm glad someone finally talked about degreeing cams because I had no clue why you needed to do it.

b20vtech

i wish there was a step by step on how to properly degree these skunk pro2 cams that i have...... a video would be perfect

The Destroyer

I always thought it was because aftermarket cams didnt have dead nuts timing? (not sure if that is correct terminology) That among tuning reasons is why you get adj gears, to correct the imperfect settings.

Ill just let the big dogs explain it and learn why.

mx621

can someone please explain why this is so important. when a company sets these specs for degreeing the cams. that was what worked best in their testing on that particular setup. if u have a different exaust/intake/bore,stroke than what they tested it may not yeild the best results for your particular setup.. so i dont see why this is so important, unless it is used as a starting point for tuning the cam gears on the dyno..

The Destroyer

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mx621 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> </TD></TR></TABLE>

I think so. I mean lets say you buy a cam that is +5 degrees(prob a bit excessive ) when the cam gear is saying it is at tdc. Lets say you go to advance it a certain amount and then have valve clearance issues. Im sure the AM big dogs can correct us all, they just enjoy our educated guesses.

revolt_allmotor

Rocket I respect your knowledge but the tone of all your recent posts has become really condescending. It's like you're talking down to everyone, testing them to see if they have the "answer" and only if they do are they considered "cool" or something.

What if you were looking at a contractor's message board for info about remodeling your house, and the people on there started talking down to you like you were a child because you didn't know a lot about the work they did? Wouldn't that kind of **** you off?

I admit there are a few idiots in this forum but a lot of people are here to learn, everyone has to start somewhere.

As far as the question, I don't know a lot but I believe that you need to know when the valve events (ie INT open and close, EX open and close) occur and where the lobe centers are and you won't know that if you don't degree the cams. Of course you would also have to know what to do with that info and I really don't...

So that means I'm probably not "cool" enough to get talked to like a regular person and not a little kid?

The Destroyer

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by revolt_allmotor &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Rocket I respect your knowledge but the tone of all your recent posts has become really condescending. It's like you're talking down to everyone, testing them to see if they have the "answer" and only if they do are they considered "cool" or something.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

I get the same feeling in general. Not condescending but rather seeing who knows the answer. Id much rather prefer a detailed write up, lol.

Anyways, gotta learn the information anyway possible.

Combustion Contraption

For those really interested in learning PM member Mike Belben. I hope he doesnt get like, a thousand messages because of this endorsement, but he's got a real good grasp of the degreeing process, and makes some nifty hardware too. But yeah, PM him, i doubt he'll post in this thread.