My95SlvrBlt

I have something in mind that is partially designed, which I am going to be having a professional fabrication shop complete, and manufacture.

This is a bolt on affair, and utilizes OEM pan.

It would be between 115-130(possibly less)

availability would be tentatively within 3-5 weeks.

Any questions I would be glad to answer, but want to gauge interest before committing to the investment on my end.

Only currently planning for k20a2, but could in fact design others if there was enough interest.

artifex

Probably generate more interest if there were some pictures or some explanation of the design.

My95SlvrBlt

Well, hard to get pictures till I actually have it produced.

Picture a baffled oilpan, but the baffle a part of the block girdle. Due to the design of the pump/pickup, its hard to have a complete, and well designed baffle and be able to install the pan still.

Picture the best designed k20a baffled pan, but bolt the baffle to the block to sit in the pan, and you have what I have in mind.

Sorry if I cannot clarify anymore, but this is the only way I can explain it without pictures. Hope it helped, and feel free to ask anymore questions.

artifex

It was more of a suggestion than a question. You're asking people to commit to parting with a precious chunk of a racing budget for what amounts to an imaginary item right now.

I like the mounting idea.

My95SlvrBlt

I know what you mean. Its going to be produced one way or the other, I was hoping to throw some feelers out.

FWIW I believe the pans offered currently are 300++ and this will serve the SAME purpose, at nearly 1/3 of the cost.

Stinkycheezmonky

for Kenny If there's any question about whether or not this guy is a flake, I can assure you he is not. I'd be willing to pay anyone back that he stiffed. I'm just that sure it won't happen.

Andrie Hartanto

It is a bit tricky on designing a baffle on the K20. Let me give you a hint, it lost pressure on left turn, not right turn where intuitively we would guess so.

We've made our own with a few revision. Our data logger showed we still lost pressure after our initial design. Our final ones work much better, which Jason Franza saw at Tech at Nationals when we had to take our oil pan off.

I was planning to sell it and actually sold the design to a manufacturer. However, the last I heard, the manufacturer couldn't make it with the price range he expected he can sell.

HapaHaole

I may be kicking myself in the pants to post this but I am not in the market to make money in baffles so I say Screw the baffles and work on the actual pick up! Hello!!!! Build a new bickup and baffle system all together instead of building around the stock pickup.

Todd Reid

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Andrie Hartanto &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It is a bit tricky on designing a baffle on the K20. Let me give you a hint, it lost pressure on left turn, not right turn where intuitively we would guess so.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

hi andrie!

my car exhibits the same as you! i generally don't see major oil problems when racing at most tracks (i always run mine about 1/2 qt over full).

but, at Mid O, i was seeing serious fluctuations on T1 (for those that dont know mid o; T1 is a very high speed, long left hander).

i ended up running the rest of the weekend 1 full qt over full. dont like running that high, but it kept the oil surging down to a reasonable amount (never dropped lower than 60 psi).

interesting to see andrie was dealing with the same thing!

later guys!

Andrie Hartanto

Todd,

I've seen some pressure drop of 45 psi!! Usually the K20 sees 85 to 90 psi at operating temperature. At certain left corner, my data logger showed it gets as low as 40psi. Pretty scary. That's why I put an accusump. Even then, I still see big drops. That's why I designed a oil pan baffle. The design based on japanese magazine I saw.

The first design wasn't successful. I had to make about 5 revision before I see minimal drop, 5psi.

However, mine consist of lots of item and lots of labor with welding and so forth. If I would ot sell it, with installation it will cost at least $300.

I see if I ccan take picture of the motor that is apart. It will be a while since the motor is at Comptech, and I was just there last Monday and don't plan to go there for at least couple more weeks

My95SlvrBlt

I would like to thank everyone for the suggestions, and constructive criticism. All things said are being noted, and I would like for them to keep coming!

KIWI

We have been using the Hi Tech Baffles in the Oil pan of our #65 K-20 Powered DC Integra.
It's now about to start in its 4th season of racing with absolutely no Oil Surge or Oil Pressure problems whatsoever. This motor is still making 253HP And is still in one piece since 2004 with no Mechanical DNF's.
We do use an Accusump, we run an external oil line to the Valve train and we check the bottom end after every event.
The rest of the secret is...
1/ Driver Dicipline.
2/ Set your Rev.Limit and stick to it.
3/ Change Oil and Filter regularly
4/ Check the bottom end regularly.
5/ Use Torco SR1 Synthetic oil

We will be fitting the same baffles and oiling system to my 11,000 RPM K-24 Engine soon to be fitted to my #66 JDM Type R.
We will be using a modified S2000 Oil pump.
Good Luck
Kiwi

Stinkycheezmonky

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by KIWI &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
We will be fitting the same baffles and oiling system to my 11,000 RPM K-24 Engine soon </TD></TR></TABLE>

My95SlvrBlt

How much do the high tech baffles sell for?

KIWI

I believe the Hi Tech Baffle is about $250.00? I know it was quite expensive, but it does work very well.
It does bolt in, and from memory I think you drill 3 small holes in the bottom of the Alloy pan to bolt the baffle in. Of course you seal the bolt holes.
If you can manufacture something that works as well as this does, for less money... I'll buy three.

Kiwi

KIWI

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by HapaHaole &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I may be kicking myself in the pants to post this but I am not in the market to make money in baffles so I say Screw the baffles and work on the actual pick up! Hello!!!! Build a new bickup and baffle system all together instead of building around the stock pickup.</TD></TR></TABLE>

This is actually well worth thinking about...
K-20's suffer from severe Oil cavitation at around 85000 RPM. I don't know whether the baffles actually help this or not? I believe It is a pick up / pump problem rather than supply around the pick up.
The remedy is probably a better pick up system, or use a S2000 Oil pump as we are.

Kiwi

Andrie Hartanto

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by KIWI &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

This is actually well worth thinking about...
K-20's suffer from severe Oil cavitation at around 85000 RPM. I don't know whether the baffles actually help this or not? I believe It is a pick up / pump problem rather than supply around the pick up.
The remedy is probably a better pick up system, or use a S2000 Oil pump as we are.

Kiwi
</TD></TR></TABLE>

85000rpm??? ****, you have nothing to worry about.
I don't agree on oil cavitation number. We tested several over 9500 rpm with no problem.

DR

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Todd Reid &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
dont like running that high, but it kept the oil surging down to a reasonable amount (never dropped lower than 60 psi).</TD></TR></TABLE>

Why don't you like running it high? Even at a quart over the crank still isn’t sitting in the oil. I'm just curious because I've heard people say that before but I never understood the reasoning.

KIWI

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Andrie Hartanto &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
85000rpm??? ****, you have nothing to worry about.
I don't agree on oil cavitation number. We tested several over 9500 rpm with no problem. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Andrie, you may have tested over 9500 rpm... So have we, that does not mean that the problem does not exist... Now you are not going to tell us that none of your k-20 motors have ever "blown up" are you???

We went through enough before we got reliablity.
If you are running your K-20 to 9500 RPM consistantly with stock stock internals? ... Well done
Why not come and run Honda Cup, then you can use your World Challenge motor.

Kiwi

Andrie Hartanto

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by KIWI &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Andrie, you may have tested over 9500 rpm... So have we, that does not mean that the problem does not exist... Now you are not going to tell us that none of your k-20 motors have ever "blown up" are you???

We went through enough before we got reliablity.
If you are running your K-20 to 9500 RPM consistantly with stock stock internals? ... Well done
Why not come and run Honda Cup, then you can use your World Challenge motor.

Kiwi</TD></TR></TABLE>

Sure some blew up, but not because of oiling issue.

My stock K20a was run consistently to 8500rpm for two season with no problem. And my two season is probably as many if not more than most people two season.

Not even a world challenge motor can run 9500rpm.

I did came to Honda Cup at Laguna last year. Where were you?

Ekasey

I think it's funny that people are using all these funny baffles and trick oil pumps. When more then one grand am cup team I know has been running k20's succesfully to 8500 rpm all endurance season long with a mugen pan, and an accusump.......

KIWI

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Ekasey &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I think it's funny that people are using all these funny baffles and trick oil pumps. When more then one grand am cup team I know has been running k20's succesfully to 8500 rpm all endurance season long with a mugen pan, and an accusump.......</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yes Kasey it's only funny until they Blow up!
You hav'nt got to that stage yet, but I'll bet you any amount of money that when the time comes... and it will!
Then all the research, development,and cost that some of us have gone to will make all these baffles and trick oil pumps not look so funny.

And I believe that Grand AM have probably restricted the Acura's so much that they will probably run for ever?

Kiwi

KIWI

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by My95SlvrBlt &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">How much do the high tech baffles sell for?</TD></TR></TABLE>


I just found that the price is $279.00
Sounds expensive, but as we have never suffered from surge since fitting the baffle... Perhaps it is not so expensive after all?

Kiwi

blackdc5

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Andrie Hartanto &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Todd,

I've seen some pressure drop of 45 psi!! Usually the K20 sees 85 to 90 psi at operating temperature. At certain left corner, my data logger showed it gets as low as 40psi. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Where are you guys mounting the sender for psi? (or are you running mechanical? )
I am running a sandwich adaptor w/ the holes for the senders (psi and temp) at 12 oclock position.

When first installed I was getting 85-90psi, but after an oil change, it hits 80psi MAX.
When at the track w/ oil temps at 240F (operating track temp for me), it was at 75psi max.
I was thinking if I mount the senders at a 9 oclock or even 6 oclock position to get a better reading,
since when I'm at idle both psi and temp needles drop from actual numbers.

Also I agree w/ Andrie about it losing psi on L turns.

Has anyone raced at Willow Springs recently? T9 was supposed to be infamous for psi drops, and I even witnessed a B18C blow after that turn.
But my PSI barely drops to on that corner (drops to 60psi, my normal is 75psi)
but my PSI drops on the uphill T3 for some reason.

I am not overfilling either, it's at the top dot, though an instructor/friend
told me I should fill it up with 1 quart

KIWI

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Andrie Hartanto &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I did came to Honda Cup at Laguna last year. Where were you? </TD></TR></TABLE>

I was moving to a new house that weekend... Even for me, Having a place to live was slightly more important than Racing.
But I'll be back this season...

Kiwi