Spring Test - BVTEC
11-07-2006, 01:20 AM
#1
Spring Test - BVTEC
BVTEC Spring Test
Cliff Notes for the Spring Chart
1. The 0.00 Lift Column is Closed Pressure aka Seat Pressure, pressure when the valve is closed.
2. Look at the 0.500 lift column to see the Open Pressure. OE B16/GSR springs cannot reach this lift so look at the 0.400 lift column for Open Pressure for these springs.
Quick Notes
1. Lift at Coil Bind means the spring is solid at this lift. General rule of thumb for BVTEC is that there should be at least 1.5mm travel over maximum valve lift. This means if you have 12.00mm valve lift then you need at least 13.50mm travel before coil bind.
2. B16 dual spring coil binds at 12.2mm. You cannot safely use this spring with 12mm camshafts without over stressing the spring or binding the spring.
3. Supertech H1002D spring pressure and lift capabilities match all manufacturer specs except for seat pressue. Seat pressure from test is only 60lbs vs. 70lbs as specified by Supertech. It is common to have some variance between spring testers in the lower pressures.
4. ITR springs allow for use of 12mm camshafts but this would be an extreme limit for lift capabilities. The relatively low pressure does not allow for any extended rpm usage without increasing risk of valve float and resulting engine damage from same.
5. B16 Single spring lacks pressure to run any performance camshaft safely.
Springs are tested with RM Retainer and OE spring seat.
From Left to Right: ITR Yellow, RM SL, RM G2, Supertech H1002D
Rimac 500lbs Capacity Spring Tester
Verifying Dial Indicator for Travel Measurement using 1.500" Standard
ITR Spring Ready to Be Tested
Close up of measuring ITR Spring at 1.320"
Preessure of ITR Spring at 1.320"
Test Notes
Modified by Don's Lackey at 6:13 PM 11/8/2006
Cliff Notes for the Spring Chart
1. The 0.00 Lift Column is Closed Pressure aka Seat Pressure, pressure when the valve is closed.
2. Look at the 0.500 lift column to see the Open Pressure. OE B16/GSR springs cannot reach this lift so look at the 0.400 lift column for Open Pressure for these springs.
Quick Notes
1. Lift at Coil Bind means the spring is solid at this lift. General rule of thumb for BVTEC is that there should be at least 1.5mm travel over maximum valve lift. This means if you have 12.00mm valve lift then you need at least 13.50mm travel before coil bind.
2. B16 dual spring coil binds at 12.2mm. You cannot safely use this spring with 12mm camshafts without over stressing the spring or binding the spring.
3. Supertech H1002D spring pressure and lift capabilities match all manufacturer specs except for seat pressue. Seat pressure from test is only 60lbs vs. 70lbs as specified by Supertech. It is common to have some variance between spring testers in the lower pressures.
4. ITR springs allow for use of 12mm camshafts but this would be an extreme limit for lift capabilities. The relatively low pressure does not allow for any extended rpm usage without increasing risk of valve float and resulting engine damage from same.
5. B16 Single spring lacks pressure to run any performance camshaft safely.
Springs are tested with RM Retainer and OE spring seat.
From Left to Right: ITR Yellow, RM SL, RM G2, Supertech H1002D
Rimac 500lbs Capacity Spring Tester
Verifying Dial Indicator for Travel Measurement using 1.500" Standard
ITR Spring Ready to Be Tested
Close up of measuring ITR Spring at 1.320"
Preessure of ITR Spring at 1.320"
Test Notes
Modified by Don's Lackey at 6:13 PM 11/8/2006
11-07-2006, 01:43 AM
#2
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Re: Spring Test - BVTEC (Don's Lackey)
i'm no expert, so does this mean that itr springs can be used with cams that have 13.1 lift? or are there other variables involved?
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11-07-2006, 07:13 AM
#12
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Re: Spring Test - BVTEC (Don's Lackey)
in response to you 1.5mm rule.
if the ITR binds at 13.1mm, then why wold portflow say you can run their springs to 12.7mm lift? (they use ITR outers with their inners)
and wouldnt you only need 13.5 capable lift for a 12mm valve lift? and not 14.5?
if the ITR binds at 13.1mm, then why wold portflow say you can run their springs to 12.7mm lift? (they use ITR outers with their inners)
and wouldnt you only need 13.5 capable lift for a 12mm valve lift? and not 14.5?
11-07-2006, 09:09 AM
#13
Re: (salman)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by salman »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i dont understand it, but ill try to read it in free time </TD></TR></TABLE>
Cliff Notes for the Spring Chart.
1. The 0.00 Lift Column is Close Pressure aka Seat Pressure, pressure when the valve is closed.
2. Look at the 0.500 lift column to see the Open Pressure. OE B16/GSR springs cannot reach this lift so look at the 0.400 lift column for these springs.
Cliff Notes for the Spring Chart.
1. The 0.00 Lift Column is Close Pressure aka Seat Pressure, pressure when the valve is closed.
2. Look at the 0.500 lift column to see the Open Pressure. OE B16/GSR springs cannot reach this lift so look at the 0.400 lift column for these springs.
11-07-2006, 09:24 AM
#14
Re: Spring Test - BVTEC (GSRCRXsi)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GSRCRXsi »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">in response to you 1.5mm rule.
if the ITR binds at 13.1mm, then why wold portflow say you can run their springs to 12.7mm lift? (they use ITR outers with their inners)
and wouldnt you only need 13.5 capable lift for a 12mm valve lift? and not 14.5?</TD></TR></TABLE>
1. Most cams including "12.7mm" lift cams don't achieve their advertised lift. All the 12.7mm cams I've seen come in at 12.5mm lift or less. And then when you add lash of about 0.007 that takes away another 0.3mm lift. So for a "12.7mm" cam with lash the motor would see about 12.2mm lift. A good quality spring can be ran with as little as 0.7mm clearance from binding but I don't recommend this for maximum longevity in motors where valve train replacement is not on the maintenance schedule.
2. Thanks for the correction. My arithmetic was incorrect. Should be needs 13.5mm total travel before bind for 12mm cam. Title post has been corrected.
Modified by Don's Lackey at 8:00 PM 11/7/2006
if the ITR binds at 13.1mm, then why wold portflow say you can run their springs to 12.7mm lift? (they use ITR outers with their inners)
and wouldnt you only need 13.5 capable lift for a 12mm valve lift? and not 14.5?</TD></TR></TABLE>
1. Most cams including "12.7mm" lift cams don't achieve their advertised lift. All the 12.7mm cams I've seen come in at 12.5mm lift or less. And then when you add lash of about 0.007 that takes away another 0.3mm lift. So for a "12.7mm" cam with lash the motor would see about 12.2mm lift. A good quality spring can be ran with as little as 0.7mm clearance from binding but I don't recommend this for maximum longevity in motors where valve train replacement is not on the maintenance schedule.
2. Thanks for the correction. My arithmetic was incorrect. Should be needs 13.5mm total travel before bind for 12mm cam. Title post has been corrected.
Modified by Don's Lackey at 8:00 PM 11/7/2006
11-07-2006, 09:27 AM
#15
Honda-Tech Member
Re: (Furyof4)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Furyof4 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Great info 
</TD></TR></TABLE>
</TD></TR></TABLE>
11-07-2006, 09:30 AM
#16
Re: Spring Test - BVTEC (b19coupe)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by b19coupe »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Nice test Rocket
I would love to see the data for other common manufacturers too (Toda, Skunk, Portflow, etc.)
</TD></TR></TABLE>
I have some other springs like JUN, higher pressure Supertechs, and UGR. When I get in the mood again I'll add these springs to the test.
I don't have the Toda, S2, Ferrera, etc. If people are interested pm me and we can make arrangements for these to be added to the test.
I would love to see the data for other common manufacturers too (Toda, Skunk, Portflow, etc.)
</TD></TR></TABLE>I have some other springs like JUN, higher pressure Supertechs, and UGR. When I get in the mood again I'll add these springs to the test.
I don't have the Toda, S2, Ferrera, etc. If people are interested pm me and we can make arrangements for these to be added to the test.
11-07-2006, 10:28 AM
#17
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Re: Spring Test - BVTEC (Don's Lackey)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Don’s Lackey »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">1. Most cams including "12.7mm" lift cams don't have achieve the advertised lift. All the 12.7mm cams I've seen come in at 12.5mm lift or less. And then when you add lash of about 0.007 that takes away another 0.3mm lift. So for a "12.7mm" cam with lash the motor would see about 12.2mm lift. A good quality spring can be ran with as little as 0.7mm clearance from binding but I don't recommend this for maximum longevity in motors where valve train replacement is not on the maintenance schedule.
2. Thanks for the correction. My arithmetic was incorrect. Should be needs 13.5mm total travel before bind for 12mm cam. Title post has been corrected.
Modified by Don's Lackey at 6:54 PM 11/7/2006</TD></TR></TABLE>
forgot about lash. so i guess most (or all) advertised lift of a cam is with 0.000 lash?
2. Thanks for the correction. My arithmetic was incorrect. Should be needs 13.5mm total travel before bind for 12mm cam. Title post has been corrected.
Modified by Don's Lackey at 6:54 PM 11/7/2006</TD></TR></TABLE>
forgot about lash. so i guess most (or all) advertised lift of a cam is with 0.000 lash?
11-07-2006, 11:02 AM
#18
Honda-Tech Member
Re: Spring Test - BVTEC (Don's Lackey)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Don’s Lackey »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I have some other springs like JUN, higher pressure Supertechs, and UGR. When I get in the mood again I'll add these springs to the test.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Have you ever tested heavily used springs, and seen any strange or reoccuring results. Just curious what happens over time, heat cycling etc.
I have some other springs like JUN, higher pressure Supertechs, and UGR. When I get in the mood again I'll add these springs to the test.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Have you ever tested heavily used springs, and seen any strange or reoccuring results. Just curious what happens over time, heat cycling etc.
11-07-2006, 11:10 AM
#19
moderator emeritus
Re: (bluedlude)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by bluedlude »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">would you mind doing that test on the GEN1 springs for the H22? i think my girlfreind just got me those for my birthday.</TD></TR></TABLE>
11-07-2006, 11:14 AM
#20
moderator emeritus
Re: Spring Test - BVTEC (an2ny888)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by an2ny888 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i'm no expert, so does this mean that itr springs can be used with cams that have 13.1 lift? or are there other variables involved?</TD></TR></TABLE>
well, its binds at 13.1 so anything under 13.1 wouldnt bind. But say you had a 12.5mm lift cam and your using ITR springs....if you miss shift and overrev, you run the risk of binding. So IMO just because they bind at 13.1mm doesnt mean you could run a 12.9mm lift cam without worry.
well, its binds at 13.1 so anything under 13.1 wouldnt bind. But say you had a 12.5mm lift cam and your using ITR springs....if you miss shift and overrev, you run the risk of binding. So IMO just because they bind at 13.1mm doesnt mean you could run a 12.9mm lift cam without worry.
11-07-2006, 11:22 AM
#21
Re: Spring Test - BVTEC (Runnerdown)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Runnerdown »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Have you ever tested heavily used springs, and seen any strange or reoccuring results. Just curious what happens over time, heat cycling etc.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Most springs will lose some pressure initally and then stabilize. This is caused by heat setting. Some springs are heat set at the factory which minimizes pressure loss.
If spring harmonics are bad, the spring can overheat due to the level of energy the spring the spring has to absorb. The biggest benefit from going to an aftermarket spring is that some are designed very well and fit both the retainer and spring tightly. Loose fitment is the #1 design aspect that needs to be addressed to minimize wear. On motors with Ti retainers the spring can wear the retainer and on motors with stock retainers the retainer can wear down the spring.
Most springs will lose some pressure initally and then stabilize. This is caused by heat setting. Some springs are heat set at the factory which minimizes pressure loss.
If spring harmonics are bad, the spring can overheat due to the level of energy the spring the spring has to absorb. The biggest benefit from going to an aftermarket spring is that some are designed very well and fit both the retainer and spring tightly. Loose fitment is the #1 design aspect that needs to be addressed to minimize wear. On motors with Ti retainers the spring can wear the retainer and on motors with stock retainers the retainer can wear down the spring.
11-07-2006, 02:52 PM
#25
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Re: (Don's Lackey)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 98vtec »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">well, its binds at 13.1 so anything under 13.1 wouldnt bind. But say you had a 12.5mm lift cam and your using ITR springs....if you miss shift and overrev, you run the risk of binding. So IMO just because they bind at 13.1mm doesnt mean you could run a 12.9mm lift cam without worry.</TD></TR></TABLE>
could you elaborate on that?
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Don’s Lackey »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">There's a machine for that.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
that bears a striking resemblance to this.... which is used for....
youre a weird guy rocket. stay hydrated while you test those valvesprings.
could you elaborate on that?
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Don’s Lackey »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">There's a machine for that.
</TD></TR></TABLE>that bears a striking resemblance to this.... which is used for....
youre a weird guy rocket. stay hydrated while you test those valvesprings.