honda_andy

yes i searched this and the other "ss vs. gc+koni" thread helped a bit but i still have some questions. this is for a 5th gen SH.

so the spring rates for the tein ss i read were roughly 450F 225R, if i wanted to order the gc rates at about the same, which setup would ride smoother on a bumpy road?

and how come i never ran across anyone running spring rates that are the same in front and rear, its always either stiffer in the front or stiffer in the rear to help kick it out a bit? what if you get spring rates at 400F and 400R?

AsiAnVenOm

I'm currently running 550f/550r...you'll get a bit of oversteer with this setting...bet depends on the person..everyone thinks different...i personally think 400/400 is a bit soft especially for the front....go 470f/400r will be nice...

petern101

its cause we drive fwd cars. it helps with handling if you have a little higher in the front than back (unless you have a very specific setup which requires otherwise)

and tein ss's can't really compare to gc/koni's. the shock dyno's show a vast difference. now whether you will notice / utilize it is a different story

Ludasaurus

What exactly does springrate mean? I'm looking into get a set of Ground Control Coil-overs w/500#/650# 8" Eibachs for my 3rd Gen. Would like to know what the numbers mean before I make my purchase.

petern101

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Ludasaurus &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What exactly does springrate mean? I'm looking into get a set of Ground Control Coil-overs w/500#/650# 8" Eibachs for my 3rd Gen. Would like to know what the numbers mean before I make my purchase.</TD></TR></TABLE>

the amount of force necessary to compress the spring, usually measured in one inch increments. A straight rate spring will take the same amount of force for the entire travel of the spring. A 500 lb rated spring will take 500 lbs of force to compress it one inch, another 500 lbs (total 1000) to compress it the second inch, and so on until the end of the spring travel. Now a progressive rate spring changes the force requirement as the spring is compressed. ...
http://www.desertrides.com/reference/terms.php

small search my friend. thats really high numbers, i hope you realize that will be pretty stiff (if thats what you are going for then fine)

Ludasaurus

Thanks, appreciate the info and the dictionary! I'm assuming a stiffer spring is more effective on the track (ie: tighter cornering, less roll, etc.)?

honda_andy

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by AsiAnVenOm &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'm currently running 550f/550r...you'll get a bit of oversteer with this setting...bet depends on the person..everyone thinks different...i personally think 400/400 is a bit soft especially for the front....go 470f/400r will be nice...</TD></TR></TABLE>

do you think 470F would be too stiff for daily driving?

so does anyone know which setup is smoother if they were the same spring rates?

HxClude

Konis are only made to handle 450lb on the factory valving. you'll get poorer performance and faster wear if you go higher than that without getting them revalved.

I have 430F/430R and I wouldn't want to go much stiffer on the street. and it's not all about comfort either. you're more likely to have the car jump/skip over bumps with high spring rates. if you like having your rear end catch air when you drive in the city, high rates are no problem

I'd go 425/425 or 450/450 for starters and you can always upgrade later if you really need more oversteer.

also, you really should be running an upgraded rear swaybar (like stiffer rear springs, this will help decrease understeer but not hurt your ride quality as much). Progress 27mm adjustable is the best one made for the Prelude right now.

honda_andy

i was thinking maybe 425F 400R or 375R, would that stil outperform the tein ss? and the preludes rear sway is like 22mm already would the extra 5mm actually make a difference and worth the money?

and someone PLEASE answer the "so does anyone know which setup is smoother if they were the same spring rates?" question before i LOSE it? lol

AndyD

iTrader: (1)

Uh oh, I sense another ricer thread, but let me test.

What kind of driving do you do? AutoX? Track? Street ricing?

Since I am 99.85% sure you only street rice, I'll offer this advice. Don't worry about your spring rates. They aren't going to help you get to the grocery store of Hot Imports Nights any faster. If you get a TEIN SS coilover, you are going to just waste a nice suspension (waste as in never use it for what it was designed for) Just get a basic setup so you don't ruin the driveability of the car.

For street ricing, just get KYB AGX shocks and GC coilovers. That's all you need. Cheap, simple, and will still allow you to act like a racecar driver on the streetZ.......yO!!! Hell, this setup is great for autoX and tracking too anyway.

honda_andy

lol, dont act like you know me. why the hell would i even be interested in spring rates and the technicalities of a modified suspension if i was planinng to see how fast i can get to your moms house.

thanks to the previous posters who actually helped me out, and if you can help me post, if you cant dont post.

AndyD

iTrader: (1)

LOL So which is it? AutoX? Track? Getting home before your curfew?

You asked which suspension handles better LOL What the hell does that mean? Peoples' driving styles differ. There is no way of determining which suspension is "better". I don't see one reference to which you prefer or which type of driving you do, even after I point-blank asked you. hahahaha

Just like I thought. You have no idea what you are looking for. HAHAHAHA Stick with my advice. Seriously! KYB AGX shocks and GC coilovers. It should knock off 0.1 of a second off your commute to Giant.

I'll stop now. It just makes me hate Honda owners more and more.

GtechPro

I had both on a 4th gen.
Koni yellows + GC all the way

HxClude

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by AndyD &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> If you get a TEIN SS coilover, you are going to just waste a nice suspension (waste as in never use it for what it was designed for) Just get a basic setup so you don't ruin the driveability of the car. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Tein Basics have the rebound set pretty high and are non-adjustable so the ride is ok but not what I'd call comfortable. the SS at setting 8-9 are much more comfortable for daily driving in my experience. and the SS are designed for daily driving from the start so I'm not seeing how they're a waste . . . or how they ruin drivability . . . I mean, 230lb rear springs on a Prelude are not part of a specialized track setup (not that they don't work on a track - a stock Prelude can be fun to Auto-X ) if he were to daily drive the Tein SS, he'd be using them for exactly what they were "designed for"

anyways, back to the Koni/GC . . .

it's a tired subject and I can see how you're a little pissed seeing one of these threads pop up almost every day but at least the man knows what's good. He's not trying to buy some fancy $1500 JDM coilover because it's looks cool or it was featured in some ricer mag - he's going straight for the time-tested setup that Honda, Toyota, BMW, Porsche, etc. guys have used for a long time on both street and race cars.


Modified by HxClude at 12:05 AM 8/29/2006


Modified by HxClude at 12:06 AM 8/29/2006

A Blue Lude

SS rears are only 230lb?

That's suprising, honestly.

mikesta21

well howcome nobody recommended the tein on my prelude suspension thread? i heard a lot of the tein ss, is it very adjustable? is it more of a track setup or a street/track comprimise. im loooking for something i can adjust so i can not only try to alter the handling characteristics to match my driving, but also have soemthing that wont crack my teeth on the street.

honda_andy

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by AndyD &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">LOL So which is it? AutoX? Track? Getting home before your curfew?

You asked which suspension handles better LOL What the hell does that mean? Peoples' driving styles differ. There is no way of determining which suspension is "better". I don't see one reference to which you prefer or which type of driving you do, even after I point-blank asked you. hahahaha

Just like I thought. You have no idea what you are looking for. HAHAHAHA Stick with my advice. Seriously! KYB AGX shocks and GC coilovers. It should knock off 0.1 of a second off your commute to Giant.

I'll stop now. It just makes me hate Honda owners more and more. </TD></TR></TABLE>

actually i never once typed "which one HANDLES better", if you can find where i asked that, then go quote it. i simply asked which one would be smoother on a bumpy road due to the spring rate, and to answer your question, its to auto-x and they are in the works of building a track near where i live and ill be going there too so hopefully you are literate enough to read this instead of saying things ive never said. enough with this clown, if you dont reply, i can understand your too embarrassed that you couldnt find where i asked "which one HANDLES better", maybe the sylvan learning center can help you out.

honda_andy

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by HxClude &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Tein Basics have the rebound set pretty high and are non-adjustable so the ride is ok but not what I'd call comfortable. the SS at setting 8-9 are much more comfortable for daily driving in my experience. and the SS are designed for daily driving from the start so I'm not seeing how they're a waste . . . or how they ruin drivability . . . I mean, 230lb rear springs on a Prelude are not part of a specialized track setup (not that they don't work on a track - a stock Prelude can be fun to Auto-X ) if he were to daily drive the Tein SS, he'd be using them for exactly what they were "designed for"

anyways, back to the Koni/GC . . .

it's a tired subject and I can see how you're a little pissed seeing one of these threads pop up almost every day but at least the man knows what's good. He's not trying to buy some fancy $1500 JDM coilover because it's looks cool or it was featured in some ricer mag - he's going straight for the time-tested setup that Honda, Toyota, BMW, Porsche, etc. guys have used for a long time on both street and race cars.


Modified by HxClude at 12:05 AM 8/29/2006


Modified by HxClude at 12:06 AM 8/29/2006</TD></TR></TABLE>

thank you sir, i also heard that the only difference between the basics and the ss is adjustability and that the spring rates are very similar.

GtechPro

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mikesta21 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">well howcome nobody recommended the tein on my prelude suspension thread? i heard a lot of the tein ss, is it very adjustable? is it more of a track setup or a street/track comprimise. im loooking for something i can adjust so i can not only try to alter the handling characteristics to match my driving, but also have soemthing that wont crack my teeth on the street.</TD></TR></TABLE>

That's exactly what I was looking for in a suspension. I spend more time stuck in traffic then at the track. And I drive a lot... Had Tein SS before, had Tanabe Sustec Pro set-up, had Tokicos and Neuspeed springs back in the day, had Eibach Pro springs on Tokicos, had KYB AGX, had skunk2, and some others I can't even remember... But Koni and GC is one combination that I found most suitable for street. Alignment and corner weight on top of that, and I'm set. At the middle setting on Koni's (so not the softest) and a 2.25 - 2.5" drop, it was very comfortable. In fact, it was a bit too comfortable for me so I had to re-adjust it
Harsh streets of LA are a challenge for any suspension, and I found this set-up to be comfortable enough without sacrifizing too much in the cornering dept. Besides, the adjustability is there and it's plenty for street use as well as the track.
You can't go wrong with Koni+GC.
And it's up to you to decide what kind of spring rate would be right for you and your driving style.

honda_andy

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GtechPro &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

That's exactly what I was looking for in a suspension. I spend more time stuck in traffic then at the track. And I drive a lot... Had Tein SS before, had Tanabe Sustec Pro set-up, had Tokicos and Neuspeed springs back in the day, had Eibach Pro springs on Tokicos, had KYB AGX, had skunk2, and some others I can't even remember... But Koni and GC is one combination that I found most suitable for street. Alignment and corner weight on top of that, and I'm set. At the middle setting on Koni's (so not the softest) and a 2.25 - 2.5" drop, it was very comfortable. In fact, it was a bit too comfortable for me so I had to re-adjust it
Harsh streets of LA are a challenge for any suspension, and I found this set-up to be comfortable enough without sacrifizing too much in the cornering dept. Besides, the adjustability is there and it's plenty for street use as well as the track.
You can't go wrong with Koni+GC.
And it's up to you to decide what kind of spring rate would be right for you and your driving style. </TD></TR></TABLE>

out of curiousity, what spring rates did you have yours at.

bad-monkey

As far as the components themselves are concerned, there's no comparison b/w GC/Koni and Tein SS. The GC/Koni setup is immeasurably superior to the SS in performance, durability, and imo, comfort. There's a wider range of spring rates you can use with the konis (upper range of the SP3 valving which is the OTS spec is more like 600#/in), a better warranty, and way more REAL adjustability (which is NOT, contrary to popular opinion, measured with "clicks"). The GC collars and ERS springs are superior to the SS springs, as well as the fact that they are also covered under a superior warranty and use a more common spring dimension (2.5" ID vs. 60mm iirc for the teins) which means you can easily try a variety of spring rates from any # of springmakers (though i'd only trust Eibach and Hyperco anyway) if your priorities should ever change. Lastly, the shock that Tein packages in the SS kit is widely known as utter crap, with shock dyno plots that make it hard to tell the difference b/w them and say, dropzone...

As far as what's smoother on the street, It depends on what spring rates you're using. The SS is fairly comfortable, but i think 350/250 springs on konis are just as/more comfy. I used to be on 450/550 on the same set of yellows when i was autocrossing the lude, and while it was harsher than my current setup it still wasn't that bad for daily driving.

As far as running 400/400, you can do it, it won't be that bad. The prelude will still understeer w/ 400/400 and a big sway bar, but it's infinitely better than 450/200 from a performance standpoint. Getting our nose-heavy pig cars to rotate is always the first battle when trying to get a prelude to handle, having stiffer springs in the rear is one of the better ways to attack that problem.

LudemanDan

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by bad-monkey &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">...you can easily try a variety of spring rates from any # of springmakers (though i'd only trust Eibach and Hyperco anyway) if your priorities should ever change. </TD></TR></TABLE>
I like this about GCs. Especially since I'm close enought to Ground Control to get new springs overnight via UPS ground. For a little over $100 you can get another pair of springs to drop in and then have different rates to play around with. All you need is an afternoon for the installation.

Chuckles99SH

Last time I ran Koni's the valves blew out in 6 months so there goes my rebound adjustability that I paid extra for.. as for their warranty that doesnt cover the time it takes me to pull them out to be refurbished, nor does it cover the downtime while Koni rebuilds and sends them back (my guess 4-6 weeks).. So i'm without a car for 6 weeks what shall I do... I know search for a setup that wont go belly up after 6 months... Mind you 6 months of California driving is rough on any car but Koni just couldn't cut it. I'm getting ready to pull my 99SH suspension now and ill be giving another company a chance.. probably Tokio Illumina's + GC and pray that they dont take a dump on me like the Konis.

bad-monkey

Why your konis blew out in 6 months depends on a lot of factors incl. ride height, spring rate, road conditions, etc. Granted, they could have failed just because they failed, but your story is the exception and not the rule.

I've run these shocks for almost 3 years now without a hiccup, w/ high spring rates, low spring rates, low ride heights, not as low ride heights and crappy roads.

As far as covering your "time", it shouldn't take you more than an hour and a half to pull 4 shocks, and that's working incredibly slowly. Downtime sucks, but it's better than having to buy new shocks. Have a pair of stockers on hand as backups.

Good luck with tokico or KYB.

honda_andy

thanks bad-monkey, you answered 100% of my questions.


Modified by honda_andy at 4:21 PM 8/29/2006