JCushing

ok well heres the low down, my old setup is in my sig i added RS cast pistons 84.5mm a jdm P8R head with a fresh valve job, some CC and throat work, slightly milled. same cams same bolt ons ect...

{edit} thought i would add the head CC'd at 47cc's when i got it, and was milled .024 and i belive the block was milled .002 {edit}

more detailed info can be found here http://www.tuneruniversity.com...30760

anyway heres the graph. red line is the old setup tuned 11 months ago but the temp/humidity is almost identical. a/f is 13.3-13.6 touching the timing map in any direction lost power, cams "zeroed" in at 0,+4 and i adjusted them to -1,+6



i had some really high hopes so only makin 10 hp with larger intake valves, all the work done to the head and roughly 2 points in compression is kinda a bummer. basically im lookin for comments from anyone that thinks they can help.. and i mean help, dont jsut say dude thats non vtec....


Modified by JCushing at 9:10 AM 8/1/2006

0mtber

iTrader: (2)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JCushing &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">now my cam gears were set at 0,+4 to start and basically cause i know you guys will ask why i started at 0,+4 ill describe my gettho cam degree process. i set #1 piston at TDC according to the crank pulley and then loosen the cam gear bolts and adjusted them untill the holes in the cams lined up with the cam caps. viola, everythings zeroed. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Why didn't you just install the timing belt at tdc the proper way to begin with ?

JCushing

you mean at 0,0? cause i had the head milled. putting the cams in at 0 on the gear made them way off. 0,+4 centered them in reference to the TDC hole in the cam cap and the TDC hole in the cam. on my previous setup they dynoed in at -2,+2 and since there was .024 milled off the head that would be advancing the cam gears 2 degrees to compensate for the mill gets ya 0,+4

lsintegra9

subscribe!

DC4KiD

iTrader: (4)

nice trq curve!

onepoint6i

awesome

EDIT: how do you like those pistons?, meaning quality/ rings.. etc?


Modified by onepoint6i at 8:13 PM 7/31/2006

los3r eG

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by onepoint6i &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">awesome </TD></TR></TABLE>

Used2beAb16

made more power and tq. throughout the entire curve. It also seems to carry the power longer up top. There should be a noticeable gain in power no?

b19coupe

The gains may not have been what you had hoped, but it looks like a pretty impressive non-vtec graph
Nice gains everywhere.

thehatchninja

those numbers look pretty good to me. More tuning maybe?


EDIT: watched the dyno vid.....sounds funny with no VTAK!

JCushing

theres a lot of reversion down low... sounds funny. yeah maybe more tuning could gain a few ponies up top. still i figured the gains would have been more considering what i changed.

pistons were good, i mean everything speced out fine.. rings are arias so they seem to be decent quality.

this might have me thinking about bigger cams now hmmm

oh yeah and i also want to thank mike belben for doin all the machine work and my other friend mike B helpin pull the motor and lending out the wdieband to get this sucker tuned!

non-VTEC

you might need more fuel. 13.3-13.6:1 AFR might be a little on the lean side depending on how much compression you have now. i remmeber when i had my N/A non-vtec setuo on the dyno it made a little more power richer than 13:1.

with some proper fuel/ignition and cam timing tuning im pretty sure you can make more power....

good stuff.

JCushing

yeah i richened it up the last run and it gained a few hp, i would have richened it up some more but i ran outa time.

as far as ignition like i said if i touched it at all it lost power from stock.

flyrod

Bigger ports/valves and 404's are geared towards high RPM power. If the intake and header are not also up to the flow they could become the limiting factor. That dyno is really not bad though. Thanks for posting.

JCushing

3" intake, i was running a velocity stack for most of the dyno's (it picked up like 1 hp over my filter that has a vstack built in from 7k up) skank2 intake manifold header is a 4-2-1 with 1 3/4 primaries, stepped to 2" and a 2.5" collector. secondaries are kinda short but that should only hurt low end i thought.

i really appreciate all the positive responses im getting guys, thanks for tkaing the time to post up comments..

long shot but do you think a different throttle body would make a difference, its a stock TB off my 98 LS motor. (im pretty sure its 60mm)

ITRacer121

I would say a large TB would help out some. I would check in with max bore. Those guys did a great job with mine.
I would also look into port matching if you have not already.
Good job on the numbers though! it looks to be pretty strong. Plus these dyno numbers dotn really mean jack because they differ so much from dyno to dyno.
good luck!

JCushing

im thinking those profesional products / aebs throttle bodies... then port match the TB, intake mani, and head. i was planning on getting the TB when i rebuilt but i ran outa money.

AMLS4dr200whp

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ITRacer121 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I would say a large TB would help out some. I would check in with max bore. Those guys did a great job with mine.
I would also look into port matching if you have not already.
Good job on the numbers though! it looks to be pretty strong. Plus these dyno numbers dotn really mean jack because they differ so much from dyno to dyno.
good luck!</TD></TR></TABLE>
exactly, it just a number, this is what u told me jcushing, hope to see quarter mile times

mike_belben@yahoo.com

the block was milled .0035"

first thing, you gained torque and horsepower everywhere.. thats a pretty good start and ive seen fellas spend a lot more money for patchier results.

second thing, an 84.25x89 bottom end with 1.54 R/S ratio can move a hell of a lot of air. your P8R head had an intake shape that looked to me as if it would offer high velocity, since the short turn was a good distance from the seat. if you wanted to see what it could pull up top i would retard the intake pretty far, because i think your motor will have a high cylinder filling effect with the late closing valve due to all that inertia. but you said yourself, its non-vtec. youve got one cam to play with so youve gotta decide where it should perform best. if you get 10 more whp out of the top, i'll bet the driveability really pays for it.

the most pronounced changes ive been able to make to an engines powerband were in the intake cam timing and the diameter/length of an induction tube that utilized a short, abrupt expansion chamber to raise pressure right in front of the throttle blade. a vaccuum gauge in the plenum will register ambient or positive pressure if you really get it right. a lot faster/cheaper than a header too. you're welcome to use my **** if you wanna try.

about the power curve, it falls off too fast. since the piston to head clearance was under .050 and the chamber shape was sweet, im gonna say im pretty confident that the fuel getting into it is being burnt quickly.. you tuned on a 94 degree day and its 100 right now, have you ever heard the motor ping?

so that leaves me to think the cylinder is choking for air in higher revs.. when it should be pulling in an extra deep breath, the intake has already closed.

I'd ask donF for his opinion.

flyrod

Oh, I didn't see that you had intake/header mods. Well, I have not seen any builds quite like yours, so it may just take some experimentation. Could you borrow a DC header or a bigger TB from a friend just to try out? Maybe the header is actually too big in this case? As big as 404's are, they are still smaller than even stock VTEC lobes, right? So maybe a milder intake/header would work out... As a side note, if this is still a street car you might not want to go bigger than 404's. I have set VTEC RPM's really low before when tuning and it is not pretty. Also, there are other things that can affect dyno numbers, like tire pressure, wheel weight, etc. so I would not get too hung up on a few HP on a graph. Anyway, good luck.

JCushing

basically to sum up crower 404 cams they have type R lift (11.3mm) with gsr duration (226/224 @ .5"). considering duration plays a pretty big role in maintaining higher rpm power id say theres room for improvement with longer duration cams. keeping the car streetable becomes the challenge though, how high of an idle do i want here. the next step up is a big one, 405a's have slightly greater duration than type R vtec lobes (241/238 @ .5") and 12+mm lift. as you can see thats a pretty big jump for a street motor.

comparing 405a's to aftermarket vtec cams really sheds some light, they are dwarfed by skunk2 stage 2 cams giving up 20degrees duration and .2mm lift.

talking it over with mike i really think that it needs more cam gear tuning and some more thought put into the engine setup as a whole (how the parts will interact with eachother)... well see, 200 whp with these cams is right out but im optimistic to get at least 10 more onto what i got. putting it all down on paper seems to make me happier with the power i am putting out though.



Modified by JCushing at 8:53 PM 8/1/2006

dc-lefty

subscribin !! cant wait to tune my b20z.

JCushing

just want to say i degreed the cams in on a degree wheel and one of mike belbens fixtures (wich worked real nice BTW, plug, plug) and i was basically accurate with my initial cam gear setting of 0,+4

heres the link to the cam fixture

http://angeltowns.com/town/mik....html

untainted

hey jeremy thanks again man... my engine runs good i like the numbers yours made so far

mike keep up the good work

Darkane

Hmm numbers seem ok I think. I would def try a larger throttle body 64MM, maybe a diff header. Also I had a B20 Wth P8R and 404's, stock bottom(stock IM w/ DC4-1) with terrible Compression. I made 124WHP mustang dyno so like 140WHp maybe? It was not to impressive but not bad for like 8.5CR. Problem I had was crankcase pressure. It started leaking out the oil check spout. Maybe add some breathing see what happens. Nice build