Catch 22

So this Drifing stuff is on Speed and I'm watching it.

I really really really don't get it.
I look at everything they do and think "uhhhhh... OK."
[shrug]

Scott, who can call it a "show," but can't manage to call it "motorsport."

racerjon1

Scott,

here is a quandry for you...

You are talking to a sponsor about roadracing efforts, and in discussions they say....

"What about this drifting stuff, its really popular, could you go and do some of that too?"

Jon K
http://www.seat-time.com

CRX Lee

It doesn't flip any switches for me either and I think it is all a subversive plot by tire companies to sell more rubber .

On the otherhand, 30+ years ago roadracers looked down their noses at people who wanted to drive in parking lots around pylons. Now autocross is it's own established realm of recognized motorsport so time will tell. If people enjoy it and keep the right perspective, it is another way for folks to have fun with their cars and it certainly helps impact the economics of the motorsports industry and makes more parts available for the rest of us who don't get it and play with our cars elsewhere. To each his own, I don't have to get it or accept it.

As a side note, my 5 year old got a Tyco "Drift King" Nissan Silvia AWD RC car for Xmas that has rubber tires for "road racing" and hard plastic tires for drifting. The grip is laughable on the drift tires but it is rather fun slewing the car around at high slip angles trying to sling it around without spinning and doing doughnuts. I am having fun with it in the cul de sac finessing it while my son has rediscovered my nearly 20 year old 4x4, full suspension RC car that he plays with jumping, driving and crashing. The important part is we are each having fun and doing it together.

racerjon1

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CRX Lee &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">it is rather fun slewing the car around at high slip angles trying to sling it around without spinning and doing doughnuts.</TD></TR></TABLE> Actually it kinda looks like you DO get it.... j/k

You should have just wrapped the old 4x4 for him, and the drift car for you.

So how many "What shock valving do I need for drifting?" PMs do you get a day now?

Jon K
http://www.seat-time.com

speedracer33

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Catch 22 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">So this Drifing stuff is on Speed and I'm watching it.

I really really really don't get it.
I look at everything they do and think "uhhhhh... OK."
[shrug]

Scott, who can call it a "show," but can't manage to call it "motorsport."</TD></TR></TABLE>

Scott, it loses a lot on TV, and personally, I like the amateur drifting much more. It's more fun watching them going into the carousel at Summit, and wondering if they are going to be able to get the *** around without losing it. The ones we have a Hyperfest are actually a lot of fun to watch!

kb58

I wonder if their cars are covered under "normal" insurance since it's not a timed event...

Speaking of timed events, that's the trouble I have with it, how do you "win"? I guess it's like a surfing or skateboard competition... or WWF where it's 100% show. So how is it scored? Or, is first place assigned by how loud the crowd chears?

It all reminds me of when the Jet Skis came out. There were really cool to watch, for about 5 minutes, then after that it all looked the same. Of course I 'spose people could say that about cars going around in a circle, drifting or otherwise...


Modified by kb58 at 1:45 PM 1/14/2006

Greg Amy

iTrader: (1)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by speedracer33 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The ones we have a Hyperfest are actually a lot of fun to watch!</TD></TR></TABLE>
Unfortunately, I have to admit that as well. I watched them at Hyperfest '04. Had the evening free, didn't know or care what it was about, but we were bored. We spent the hour or so switching between "that guy sucks" to "wow, that looks like fun" to "did you see that chikc over there" to "that looks like fun" to "man, look at that crowd eat this stuff up!" 'Specially that last one.

I have no idea what the scoring system is, but in general the guy that left it hang out the longest and best won the schmozzle. Yup, seems goofy, but folks love to watch it.

Personally, I'd have preferred to enter the rollover contest, but my crew chief wouldn't let me...

Catch 22

This thing that was on today (D1 Championship I think) was far more like some sort of State Fair Stunt Show than a motor"sport" event.

And Jon,
Honestly, if a sponsor tried to throw money at me to go drifting I'd say "no thanks."
That "Jackass" atmosphere would drive me completely insane. Plus, I have zero interest in the whole thing. I think its just silly.
I promise if someone calls me I'll forward them to you.

94accordsedan

I like doritos... with nacho cheese dipping.

CRX Lee

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by racerjon1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> Actually it kinda looks like you DO get it.... j/k
You should have just wrapped the old 4x4 for him, and the drift car for you.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
I don't "get it" as a full sized, full budget motorsport, especially with scoring on style points. Playing around with my 5 year old in the street or driveway for 15 minutes until the battery drains is enough drifting for me.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by racerjon1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> So how many "What shock valving do I need for drifting?" PMs do you get a day now?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Not daily but it happens. I do get a fair number of sponsorship requests from drifters though.

We are approaching it like early import drag racing. We would certainly be interested to work with someone who has a clue and a real testing procedure that could prove what valving characteristics really do help in drifting. We don't see it as a long-term marketable situation that we can really go after but another short and maybe long term automotive fascination that we would be interested in knowing the technical requirements of in case some of our customers want to do it. Exactly like import drag in it's infancy, we have not yet found and worked with anyone who could give any real feedback. Too much scattered focus on too many things to have any actual gain. I met some people with real potential I think at SEMA but have been too busy with daily business to follow up.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by speedracer33 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> I like the amateur drifting much more. It's more fun watching them going into the carousel at Summit, and wondering if they are going to be able to get the *** around without losing it. The ones we have a Hyperfest are actually a lot of fun to watch!</TD></TR></TABLE>
I saw that event but honestly I seem to recall more laughing at them than laughing with them. Although a few of them had a bit of a clue and control, most of it was like watching the proverbial "monkey f#*&ing a football"

Hracer

Scott, forward your phone calls this way too. If someone would pay money so I could burn rubber and go sideways, I'd be all for it. lol It’s fun. And as someone else said it, what I too get out of watching a D1 event is just seeing cool cars go by smoking their tires. That's all and I couldn't care less who wins. The downside of this is that once you get over the initial curiosity, it probably gets boring quickly. Plus if I had a favorite driver it would probably be frustrating having a person dictate who wins an event as opposed to a stopwatch.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CRX Lee &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I think it is all a subversive plot by tire companies to sell more rubber .</TD></TR></TABLE>
I always wondered about this. If you see brand X all over a winning racecar it's obvious what is implied - this tire is good, period. However if you see brand Y all over a drift car, what does it really mean? That you'll have good quality smoke on these tires? Or that these tires don't really grip that well? lol Other than having a tire brand name be paraded on a moving/smoking billboard as opposed to a traditional stationary one, someone please tell me what are the positive aspects associated with this.

.RJ

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Hracer &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">And as someone else said it, what I too get out of watching a D1 event is just seeing cool cars go by smoking their tires. That's all and I couldn't care less who wins.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Same here I had a blast watching the D1 'show' at JGTC last year, the crowd loved it, and it was a good time

HandCommand

I'd rather wear out tires and wheel bearings from lots of road racing, than drifting, but I may be biased because most of the imports I own and race are FWD.

A couple of years ago I saw some guy use a CRX on on the drift course ( http://www.aarrf.com ) and thought to myself, " Why the heck would anyone want to do that?"

I have video footage of him trying to "drift a FWD" with the front wheels turned full Lock, full throttle, smoking the INNER tire ( probably no LSD ) to try to get the *** end to swing around. Pointless for a CRX if you ask me.

I think if my CRX could talk, it would thank me for not doing that to it........hehehehe.


Now if I owned a 240 or something, I may find myself out there on the drift pad, but I would be more into road racing with it.

When http://www.aarrf.com was in full swing, I saw many 240's emerge from Minnesota garages onto the drift pad.

CRX LEE is right, the tire companies love it. DRIFTERS and people who slam their Hondas/Acuras with excessive TOE-OUT are their favorites.

Yes, its the TOE-OUT that eats your tires more than the NEG Camber when you SLAM your ride without proper alignment. Most cars tend to TOE OUT when the ride height is lowered.

I see so many owners go through front tires like crazy and they say "yeah, I need to get a camber kit", when really they just need their TOE aligned at least.

Remember, rolling your front tires at an angle doesnt wear it out as much as having them SCRUB against the street "TRYING" to drive away from each other.

Well, at least the drifters have brought me many tire mount / dismount business.

vtecvoodoo

The events are fun. I enjoy watching drifting if I am actually at the event.

Two of our guys at Eibach (new employees haha) are going for their drift license today in the rain at Irwindale. I guess they will be able to try and qualify for D1 and such events now.

I think its pretty cool that they giveway the tires after each session. I couldn`t figure out why tons of spectators were walking around with 2-3 tires at the first event I attended.

Accord94DX

i rode shotgun in this thing


(guess which one I am)

It does require skill, and a lot of it, but I guess I really couldn't see myself willing to throw the car into a slide at 100mph on purpose without anticipating some sort of catastrophic result.

Kamin

oh no here comes the drifter to try and explain it

Disclaimer: I am not an e-drifter. I am not a 17 year old stunna. I respect road racing, and HPDE just as much as drifting (as do most people who know what they are doing when drifting). I run HPDE and Drift about 50/50 throughout the year. I used to be like alot of you guys "bah that ***** not racing! its like a rolling car show!" and while its not racing, it takes an IMMENSE amount of skill to do properley. throughout the year we get a few racers who go out there and try it with us, they usually come to our downloads afterwords saying something along the lines of "wow i had no idea how hard that is to do, my outlook is totally changed on drifting." what turned me onto it was when i took a ride with a buddy who is very close to going pro. i was amazed. he went sideways going straight. GOING STRAIGHT! from that point i was hooked.

firstly: its not racing, anyone who says it IS racing is a retard. its judged on style speed and consistencey.


whats the point?: hmm..well to me its fun. a lot of it. its a huge rush to link a set of corners and appear to be competley out of control. anyone who has run a nasa event in phoenix when the drifters are out there can attest to this one: the crowd. there is no greater high than comming around a corner at 80mph+ totally sideways and seeing 200+ people on the wall 45 feet from you all of them snapping pictures. its a HUGE adrenaline rush. and this is just the little amatuer stuff we do, i cant even imagine what its like with a real crowd of 10,000+ people. drifting has also helped me to become a better grip driver, and vice versa. drifting has taught me the absolute ragged edge of control, how to recover, what the car does when its gone past the point of no return, etc. HPDE/Racing has taught me the line, control under grip, how to be fast, etc. they are not as opposite as you may think, watch the GOOD drifters they are on the racing line nearly 100% of the time. you dont learn that without experience. the best drifters in the world have a very seasoned racing background.

Why is it so popular? excitment. seriously, watching road racing is boring if you dont know whats going on. you dont have to have the slightest clue about cars, racing or technique to appreciate whats going on in drifting. loud noises, smoke, carnage and destruction. whats the main reason people watch nascar? the driving? haha no. the wrecks.

Fad? Dobutfull. Drifting will ALWAYS be popular from a spectator standpoint. sure drivers will come and go, espically the posers who think they are 'madd tiitee jdm drifters' then they wreck doing something they didnt know how, in an unsafe area and we have another 240sx parts car, but now that its finally become popular here i think we will continue to see it grow for several years before it "peaks". nothing like import drag racing that went from nothing to popular back to nothing in a VERY short period of time. lets be realistic here, drag racing is boring to watch. and companies dont pump tens of thousands of dollars into R&D and sponsorships for something that people dont like to watch.

i hope that helped a little bit.


Modified by Kamin at 6:42 PM 1/14/2006

Knestis

I would do it in a minute if I had an appropriate tool for the job. Of course, I'd race a short track stock car, too...

K

Catch 22

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Knestis &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Of course, I'd race a short track stock car, too...

K</TD></TR></TABLE>

Oh, I'd do that in a short minute.
IF someone else was paying the bills.

We just THINK we are crazy. Some of those guys pay $20K for a motor.

CRX Lee

Last Spring Koni had a media and worldwide distributor meeting to introduce FSD at the Zandvoort racetrack and as a sideshow they brought in four drift cars for demonstrations and giving rides. They had the Dutch, English and Irish drift teams with a pair of Skylines, a Silvia and a BMW E36 wagon with M3 driveline.

I took a ride in each of the Skylines and the BMW. Once you got over the odd feeling of the serious slip angle and cars sliding in very close proximity to each other, I started really watching driver technique and honestly it didn't look that difficult. Lots of steering lock, tossing, releasing, then grabbing the wheel when changing sides, high angle throttle modulation and left foot braking for balance- basic good car control skills and nothing really outside the realm of a seasoned racer with a great deal of practice. What it did require was simply a lot of seat time to get comfortable with the feel of the edge and confidence that the car was going to do as planned. Good skills very honed by lots of seat time but what form of motorsports isn't? Luckily Koni made a deal with the local Falken importer as they roasted away a lot of tires in two days.

Kamin

Lee it definatley isnt outside the grasp of a seasoned racer, its all seat time. its just a different way of controling a car that anyone who has a few seasons racing (hell a few regular HPDE' will help immensley) should pick up quickly.

CRX Lee

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Knestis &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I would do it in a minute if I had an appropriate tool for the job. Of course, I'd race a short track stock car, too...
K</TD></TR></TABLE>
I agree. I've always said that I'd love to drive anything, even a riding lawnmower. Got the riding lawnmower last Fall ... watch out weeds!

steverife

I seriously considered loading up the Mustang with some junk tires and participating in a semi-local event back in the fall. Seat time and car control, right?

The primary reason I decided to stay at home was that I feared spending my day stuck around a bunch of dorifto fanboys saying stuff like "I can't wait to put a Strawberry Face on my Kouki." and "So, you are usually a grip driver?"

kb58

While I don't care for it, a friend brought up a good point about drift drivers (and road racers.)

He said, "Who would you rather be next to on the freeway, someone who knows all about the limits of their car at the edge of control, or some clueless driver who has no idea what their car will do if they suddenly hit the brakes with the wheel turned (that would be the other 99.9%)

Fair enough, and a valid point I think. As dumb as most of us think it is, they do in fact know car control!

ewaugh

I'd like to see someone come out of dirt, espically late models or evenopen wheels, and hop in. I mean, most of those guys drive right rear anyway, which is the same thing that the drifter guys are doing, just on a different surface.

Most late model motors (700-800 hp) run between 10-15K, al least the ones that i've seen.

Kamin

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by steverife &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I seriously considered loading up the Mustang with some junk tires and participating in a semi-local event back in the fall. Seat time and car control, right?

The primary reason I decided to stay at home was that I feared spending my day stuck around a bunch of dorifto fanboys saying stuff like "I can't wait to put a Strawberry Face on my Kouki." and "So, you are usually a grip driver?"</TD></TR></TABLE>

theres 2 types of drifters

1) drifters.

2) e-drifters.

dont confuse us.

we dont get along very well amd we also do not hang out together much. at an event there is little to none of that conversation. dont hesitate to go to an event. youll be pleasently surprised at the intelligence of the people there. the yo yo jdm fanboys dont drive at events. they always have excuses. some of my personal favorites:

i need more power

i need a LSD

real drifters do it on the street/mountians

i need tires

i need money

those are prime examples of how to spot a poser from a driver

i invite anyone local to us in AZ to come to an event. ask for a ride. its fun