teggsr925

I am about to buy a AEM short ram for my gsr and wanted to know if i should spend the extra cash for a Cold Air intake

wats ur thoughts

if there is a intake that i should get add it to the list


Modified by teggsr925 at 9:58 AM 10/25/2006

Missing Gears

go w/ the cold air, short ram

aem is great choice!

mx621

rockin the 3" shorty with the velocity stack, cost about 50 bucks to assemble

Formula1

short ram all the way, when revving about 8k you'll start to see more gains with the short ram.

b18cDA

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Skunk2VTEC &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">short ram all the way, when revving about 8k you'll start to see more gains with the short ram.</TD></TR></TABLE>
this is true...check the threads on t-i about this. The shorter length of the sri makes more power up top 8k rpm plus. The cai makes more mid-range power in what is know as the "aem hump." Depending on your car choose accordingly.

WhoisDan

Comptech Icebox

biassj

Supposely the J's aka Whale ***** is the king of the shortties. I think in the end it's up to setup, but colder air will always generate more power.

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1194241&page=1

Missing Gears

cold air always makes more horsepower. short ram intakes can actually cause power loss over stock airbox! only reason a shorter intake might make more power at high rpm is if your comparing it to a cold air w/ a dirty filter because the motor needs more air, quiker at higher rpms, thats it. run a cold air w/ a good free flowing filter, it will always make more power at any rpm!

dasher

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Missing Gears &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">cold air always makes more horsepower. short ram intakes can actually cause power loss over stock airbox! only reason a shorter intake might make more power at high rpm is if your comparing it to a cold air w/ a dirty filter because the motor needs more air, quiker at higher rpms, thats it. run a cold air w/ a good free flowing filter, it will always make more power at any rpm! </TD></TR></TABLE>

Horrible misinformation!

Have you actually data-logged the temperatures near the filter of a short ram vs CAI at any moving speed above 20 mph?

*Hint* The term CAI is merely a marketing ploy and the different power bands are a direct result of the tubing diameter and length and not because the CAI ingests colder air!

Toadfart

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dasher &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Horrible misinformation!

Have you actually data-logged the temperatures near the filter of a short ram vs CAI at any moving speed above 20 mph?

*Hint* The term CAI is merely a marketing ploy and the different power bands are a direct result of the tubing diameter and length and not because the CAI ingests colder air!</TD></TR></TABLE>


Ding Ding Ding!

jerkwrenchEM1

good info

teggsr925

so the cold air intake puts the same temp air as the short ram does to the engine?

teggsr925

will i have a power loss at midrange rpms w/ a short ram

Missing Gears

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dasher &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Horrible misinformation!

Have you actually data-logged the temperatures near the filter of a short ram vs CAI at any moving speed above 20 mph?

*Hint* The term CAI is merely a marketing ploy and the different power bands are a direct result of the tubing diameter and length and not because the CAI ingests colder air!</TD></TR></TABLE>

are you trying to tell me that warm air ingested from the engine bay makes more hp than cold air ingested from outside the engine bay? boy, what are all of us racers thinking using ram air setups, pulling in cold air? maybe i should go back to my stock airbox, then i could run 10s

Missing Gears

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by teggsr925 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">so the cold air intake puts the same temp air as the short ram does to the engine?</TD></TR></TABLE>

no, it does not. it is not just a " marketing ploy".

heel_touge

i was under the impression that the shorter piping creates more throttle response and low end power, but as one gets into the higher RPM range, the air starts moving faster, and becomes more turbulant. with a longer pipe the air takes longer to travel through thus making it less turbulant. is this a legitamate theory?

i would imagine the best setup would be a longer "short ram" with a velocity stack to direct higher speed airflow.

this is what im working on putting together.



Modified by 1slowcivic at 9:09 PM 1/5/2006

BryanPendleton

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Missing Gears &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">are you trying to tell me that warm air ingested from the engine bay makes more hp than cold air ingested from outside the engine bay? boy, what are all of us racers thinking using ram air setups, pulling in cold air? maybe i should go back to my stock airbox, then i could run 10s </TD></TR></TABLE>

Cold Air Intake would be great on dyno or if the air in your engine bay were static, but its not, while moving, turbulent air is constantly flowing through the engine bay helping to keep engine bay temperatures relatively close to ambient. While it may be warmer than if drawn from outside the bay the temp difference is not as signficant as the manufacturers would have you believe

SiNiStEr Dc2

well from what i know the short ram with a bigger diameter piping will make more power that a cold air and if i could find my dyno plot i can prove this plus like dasher said after about 20mph there is really no "engine heat" being sucked in its all basically the same deal

BryanPendleton

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 1slowcivic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i was under the impression that the shorter piping creates more throttle response and low end power, but as one gets into the higher RPM range, the air starts moving faster, and becomes more turbulant. with a longer pipe the air takes longer to travel through thus making it less turbulant. is this a legitamate theory?
</TD></TR></TABLE>

I will not comment on engine performance with regard to intake geometry, but your flow dynamics theory does not make since.

First know that with the cyclic demand, air filter, and fluid velocities, etc, etc, intake air will be turbulent. Not much you can do about that.

What can and does change with intake length is the velocity profile, not more or less turbulent. This is a map of the average fluid velocity from center of pipe to edge. Velocity at surfaces is always zero. Peak fluid velocities will be at center of pipe.

What you will typically see is that upon entrance into intake the velocity profile will be very pointy with high max velocity (occuring at center). As the fluid travels down the intake it trys to stabilize and recover in a sense from the entrance effects. This results in a flattening of the velocity profile, yield a much more blunt profile with lower max velocities (but obviously same mass flow rate).

By lengthening or shortening the intake you can decrease or increase, respectively, the max fluid velocities feeding the intake manifold at any given engine speed. How does this effect engine performance? I don't know.

dasher

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by teggsr925 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">so the cold air intake puts the same temp air as the short ram does to the engine?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Above certain speeds(20-30mph) the temperature recorded at the front of an uncovered air filter on a short ram intake will be ambient (same as AEM CAI).

dasher

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by teggsr925 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">will i have a power loss at midrange rpms w/ a short ram
</TD></TR></TABLE>

typically the longer, smaller diameter piping found in AEM CAI v1 give more mid range torque than short ram intakes which typically give better top end.

The AEM CAI v2 simply takes advantage of Helmholtz resonance tunning with multiple tubes to change the powerband.

dasher

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Missing Gears &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


are you trying to tell me that warm air ingested from the engine bay makes more hp than cold air ingested from outside the engine bay? boy, what are all of us racers thinking using ram air setups, pulling in cold air? maybe i should go back to my stock airbox, then i could run 10s </TD></TR></TABLE>

Again... answer my original question:

Have you actually data-logged the temperatures near the filter of a short ram vs CAI at any moving speed above 20 mph?

If you have than you would realize that the air being ingested on a uncovered short-ram (without the assistance of a ducted hood and on a stock vehicle) will see ambient air temps while moving.

Yes, I have tested this myself and datalogged temps under stop and go traffic and long drives on the highway.

M@

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BryanPendleton &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I will not comment on engine performance with regard to intake geometry, but your flow dynamics theory does not make since.

First know that with the cyclic demand, air filter, and fluid velocities, etc, etc, intake air will be turbulent. Not much you can do about that.

What can and does change with intake length is the velocity profile, not more or less turbulent. This is a map of the average fluid velocity from center of pipe to edge. Velocity at surfaces is always zero. Peak fluid velocities will be at center of pipe.

What you will typically see is that upon entrance into intake the velocity profile will be very pointy with high max velocity (occuring at center). As the fluid travels down the intake it trys to stabilize and recover in a sense from the entrance effects. This results in a flattening of the velocity profile, yield a much more blunt profile with lower max velocities (but obviously same mass flow rate).

By lengthening or shortening the intake you can decrease or increase, respectively, the max fluid velocities feeding the intake manifold at any given engine speed. How does this effect engine performance? I don't know.

</TD></TR></TABLE>
Tell me more master Looking forward to more testing from you.

Another thing that has been mentioned is the harmonics of the intake. Larger diameters and shorter intakes raise the harmonic frequency of an intake.

I think the AEM hump is due to the harmonic frequency of the intake. If no one knows for sure someone could dyno w/ an intake w/ adjustable length and see how it moves the hump around.

Bryan I was thinking about his harmonics thing just now. I know that on an unrounded pipe entrance that there is a small "window" that harmonics play an effect. On a trumpet the bell is curved so as to allow harmonics to be found about about every frequency. As the player plays higher, the point in the bell where the sound wave is reflected moves toward the bell, which means that more and more energy is lost, and less is reflected back to the mouthpeice. This is why it is increasingly difficult to play very high notes.

I don't know how this matters, but it would be an interesting idea if you tested the harmonics of your different stacks to see how they may change.

Missing Gears

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dasher &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Above certain speeds(20-30mph) the temperature recorded at the front of an uncovered air filter on a short ram intake will be ambient (same as AEM CAI).</TD></TR></TABLE>

it all depends on the car and engine bay design.

i have not done any flow testing/air temp. dataloging......but i do have years of experience on the track, where it matters and i can tell you always best to go w/ the cold air intake......unless you plan on driving underwater

dasher

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by M@ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I think the AEM hump is due to the harmonic frequency of the intake. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Yes, Helmholtz resonance and fluid velocity(diameter and length) effect the powerband and cause the AEM hump.