Ohlias

I was thinkgin of getting Koni Yellows with GC Coilovers. Now I'm seeing posts with quaotes saying things like "Never use Coilovers like Ground Control"... and the like. (see these posts if you like)
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=137275
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=132353

I do not wish to lower my car too much (1.5 in) and I would also like to be able to raise it back up for winter. This car is my daily driver and I do not race at all. (Althoug I might go to the strip this summer for fun and I would like to get on a race track at least one, but it would be for fun and not competition).

Will the Ground Controls be okay? Are skunk2's any better? Should I get something else? Cost is a big factor with the coilovers...


TIA

Ohlias

EL Vap133

I got Skunk2's in my ride and I think they're great! For shocks, I'd recommend to go with Bilsteins.

GTM

A lot of guys out there are having the same debate you are now.

As one of the east coast's few serious performance shops (no rice, just good old-fashioned well-tuned power and handling) we see countless Civics and Integras come in with big-dollar amounts of damage because of split "fake" coilover sleeves.

We now will NOT sell or install "fake" coilover suspension systems like the Skunk2 or Ground Control which are, by the way, the best of their kind. (There are many more companies that make these cheap alternatives to true coilovers).

There is no good, safe substitute for a good-quality standard lowering spring/shock setup or true coilover system.

For those non-believers, please e-mail us at GTxMotors@aol.com for pictures that WILL change your mind.

Happy motoring to all!

owen_the_soyboy

I hope you have a LOT of pictures,
of different vehicles
with different brands
before you start talkin' that aggressively against products that have many loyal customers and many years of market experience with all levels of use.

Are you badmouthing Skunk2 Brand and Ground Control Brand coilover sleeve setups?
Or just mentioning that FAKE, Poor Quality coilover setups are bad?

I do agree that there are JUNK coilover sleeves.. Matrix, OBX, etc.... but there are even fake coilover systems nowadays... Arospeed, Nex, etc.
So I have to say that it is critical whether the product is QUALITY or JUNK.
The coilover sleeve design has been used for many years and is a trusted tool of many autocrossers, roadracers and drag racers. I acknowledge that it is possible for ANY coilover suspension setups to fail from- improper installation, abuse, neglect, or use without frequent inspection for damage after many years of use (which is more important now because a lot of people buy used stuff that may have been around for many years or may have been abused by the previous owner).
Even Tein, Apexi and Zeal true-coilover-systems use a threaded collar design as a spring perch!

Ohlias

I guess I'll just have to try it for myself and hope they don't break!

Neo

Nicely said, Owen. I, too, resent the way GTM tries to join the conversation here, not simply to offer objective, impartial information, but to imply that that unless you're running a true, full coilover setup, then you're asking for trouble (e.g., "We now will NOT sell or install "fake" coilover suspension systems like the Skunk2 or Ground Control..."). C'mon GTM, you're obviously new here, so you should take a few vendor code of conduct and etiquette lessons from the likes of Mike at IPS Racing and Dave and Daniel at R&D Motorsports because you're heavy handed approach will land you in a heap of fecal matter. And if you truly do have pics that could enlighten all of us, especially ones of the "fake" coilovers failures w/ GC and Skunk, then don't make us work for them -- figure out a way to get them posted here. And don't try to present just one side of the story on these things either. There are plenty of smart people here who will be able to figure out if the coilovers broke due to structural failure, or from some other reason reason such as improper installation. If you want to play here, then play fair -- you need to disclose what your interests and intentions are. If not, well, you'll find out...

WOTTEG

GTM: What do you recommend/install for most of your customers?


All: Anybody have <U>experience</U> with H&R coilovers?

Thanks.

GTM

I apologize for the way you feel about my post. In NO WAY am I trying to badmouth Skunk2 or Ground Control. Both are excellent companies with good product lines. My point is not that these companies manufacture poor quality products, but that the inherent design, although a good idea as an alternative to spending tons of money on a true cloilover setup, is flawed.

Matrix, OBX, PAC, etc. are all cheap imitations of the better qwuality stuff made by Skunk2 and GC, but quite frankly a good portion of the broken sleeves we have removed from cars are made by the latter brands.

May true cloilover setups use threaded collar designs as spring perches but they are integrated into the struts and are therefore far less prone to breaking like a separate component sleeve.

Please if anyone would like pictures, e-mail us at GTxMotors@aol.com.

If any one of you would

threatcon13

id like some pics of the damage from the skunk2...email please at jasonkang77@aol.com.

Neo

As I mentioned, you'd save yourself a ton of time and be doing all of us a big favor if you could figure out a way to post the pics here in this thread.

VTEConly

It's funny how I personally know of 0 people with broken GC sleeves or otherwise. I 've known probably at least 20 people (in person) with GCs over the last 3yrs that auto-x with me. Year after year I see them back with the GCs and not a word of anything broken when I ask them how the car is holding up, etc. A few of them road race several times a year. Now these are just people that I personally know, nevermind the hundreds here that have GCs. I don't ever recall since the inception of this Forum, a Civic or Integra owner complain about a bad accident he or she had because of a GC broken component. I have heard that over time and with excessive adjustments the adjustor/wrench gets worn out. It's also natural for you as a race shop to see vehicles with problems but I 'm sure it must be a very negligeable percentage otherwise it 'd be all over this forum and GC or Skunk would get hit with many lawsuits.

Rory Breaker

I have seen the Skunk Coilovers crack a couple times, but I havent heard anything reliability-wise in terms of Ground Controls.

Threaded Coilover prices are coming down. For the price of GC's & Konis, you could almost have a set of Tein SS', which are both damper & height adjustable. The GC/Koni setup is a popular and effective combo, but depending on the cost, youre almost in true coilover territory.

madchiller

bilsteins and skunk2's dont go together. the rears dont fit. i know, i tried. but that was like 2 years ago. they couldve changed their coilovers at least.

bhcvc

My old setup was skunks w/ tokico blues. After about 1.5 years of riding on them, I took them out and saw that the rear skunk sleeves were cracking. they were going around the part where the sleeve normally sits on the rear dampers. I don't know how long the crack has been there so I don't know if it would've spread or not. In working with both skunk and gc sleeves, I've noticed both of them to be made of fairly soft material (I dented both a skunk and gc sleeve before...I accidently dinged the skunk with a hammer...not hard, it just made contact while I was holding both of them, and I dropped the gc sleeve on the garage floor). it was a pain to get the collars back on after I dented the collar (they wouldn't thread very easily). I also met someone else who had their skunk sleeves totally split! A friend of mine has Tenzo sleeves and has no probs, tho I would think the material would be just as soft as the skunk and gc ones. They performed fine, but seeing the sleeves starting to split (it was about 1/4") on my own car has cautioned me some.

EL Vap133

You should of called Bilstein then. They are great shocks.