hybrid_vtec

Well yesterday, I went to Long Beach, Ca to Church Automotive Testing to dyno my car again in hopes of making more power. I had high hopes of pulling more power, due to the fact of the changes I had made. For those that do not know I have an allmotor B18b that put down 170.3 whp and 135.4 wtq back in January on a Dynojet 248C at AEBS(Tuned by Aries). Well now I decide to remove my old cylinder head for a newer PR4Y B18b head that I did a mild port on myself cleaning up the casting marks in the head, and smoothing out the humps in the bowl area. I also port matched the Skunk2 Intake Manifold and gaskets, including a new Hondata-type IM gasket. I also had a competition valve job done and milled the head .025". Beyond that I upgraded my stock 240cc injectors to a set of OBD-II H22 290cc injectors, and decided to dump the SAFC-II for a proper tune with the Crome program using my P28 ECU instead of my old P75.

So going into this I thought I stood to make some power and hoping to top over 180 whp. Well I was wrong! I only made about 2 whp more on topend. However I produced 5-10 whp more throughout the powerband and peaked power at about 300 rpm sooner than last time. I also saw a large increase in torque throughout the whole powerband range from 10-15 more wtq, although I only peaked one more ft-lb of torque.

So I was a little bummed out but happy with the overall result after driving the car. My idle problems were gone. The car felt great to drive at any rpm level and had no more weak spots in the powerband. It really felt way more powerful than the last time I left the dyno. That is not to say that Aries did a bad job, it was just that I was able to tune more efficiently with the Crome program over the SAFC-II. Church did a wonderful job tuning and really accepted that I was interested in learning how to use the program myself. He took the time to show me exactly what he was doing step-by-step and showed me exactly how he tunes cars with his expertise. So I feel it was well worth the money to have my car tuned by him, because not only did I get my car tuned but I also got an in-depth tuning lesson from Mr. Sean Church himself.

Now back to the matter of my power production, we found out a few things are holding my potential back. One is the heat in my engine bay is hurting my top end greatly! So I will soon be constructing a heat shield to block off the heat from teh engine and the hot air from the radiator fan. Two, my exhaust system is another factor due to my setup, since I do not have termination box, therefore making it seem as if I have a super long collector which greatly affects the powerband. That too, shall be fixed as I have done a lot of reseach in the past 2 monthes on "No Loss Exhaust Systems", and have engineered an exhasut system that should suit my setup well. However, this finding will only be proven by going back to the dyno again for confirmation. Until then I am extremely happy with my results will be going back to Church for future tuning needs.


Now that we are past all the bullshit, here is the things I know you want to see:


<FONT SIZE="3">Setup:</FONT>

B18A Block/ B18B Head

-Crower 404 w/ JG Cam Gears
-Crower Valvesprings
-Ferrea SS Valves
-Cometic Head Gasket
-Skunk2 IM
-64mm TB
-Modified Iceman intake
-JDM ITR 4-1 header w/ 2.5" collector
-No Cat
-2.5" custom piping and exhaust
-PR3 B16 Pistons
-Stock Rods
-GSR Tranny w/ LSD
-Exedy Flywheel
-Clutch Specialties 6-puck clutch

New to the list:
- Mild Port and polish, competition valvejob, and headmill
- Hondata-style Intake Manifold gasket
- 290cc Prelude injectors
- Chipped P28 ECU running Crome program


<FONT SIZE="3">Dyno Charts:</FONT>

Old Dyno: January 23, 2005 @ AEBS



New Dyno: September 11, 2005 @ Church Automotive Testing



<FONT SIZE="3">HP and TQ comparisons of Old Dyno vs. New Dyno(Graphs constructed by me):</FONT>

HP Comparison


TQ Comparison



<FONT SIZE="5">New Results: 172 WHP @ 7100 rpms, 136 WTQ @ 5800 rpms</FONT>

The only thing I wonder is if we reved the motor to 8000 or 8500 would I have made more power?( look at the chart at around 7400-7500 as the curve starts to go back up)


I hope you guys enjoy this and feel free to offer your comments and suggestions.

strsi

looks good!
very impressed!

The Stance

i love it ........ur posts and ur setup is what keeps me going.......hopefully my build will finish up soon and i can post up my dyno results....although i know ill be disappointed by how little power ill make....

fmrprojects

hey thats p[retty good for a ls allmotor props

oldskool teggy

good setup.. what intake are you using?

i suggest a new header. i made 9 hp at shauns dyno swapping out the ITR 4-1 to a Toda header. not only that.. i had gains everywhere on torque and 3-5 hp increase through out the low and midrange. OVER ITR 4-1. my car is lsvtec, but with your compression and cams, we should be about the same.

overall good job

SawBoss

iTrader: (1)

keep it going! the way this project is progressing, i can see you breaking into the 180-190hp range (200?). it goes to show that getting every hp out of an allmotor setup is no cake walk. props again!

92Jspec

good shiet bro

GUILOTINE

did you try his CAI he has sitting at his shop? also are these results on the Dynapack2000 or 4000?
edit-BTW rick you gained a **** load of TQ throughout the whole powerband

Stinkycheezmonky

What CR do you have with those pistons and that head-milling?

STREETWERKZ

damn boy! when is the 2.0L coming!?!?!?

hybrid_vtec

Thanks for the comments so far.


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GUILOTINE &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">did you try his CAI he has sitting at his shop? also are these results on the Dynapack2000 or 4000?
edit-BTW rick you gained a **** load of TQ throughout the whole powerband </TD></TR></TABLE>


No didnt try the CAI, but he gave me some tips on how to build a nice ram air kit and where to find the supplies.

Yes the torque increase was real nice.

Not sure which dynapack it was. Why is there a difference in the readings?

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sscguy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What CR do you have with those pistons and that head-milling?</TD></TR></TABLE>

11.5:1 Static, 10.89:1 Dynamic Compression


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by STREETWERKZ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">damn boy! when is the 2.0L coming!?!?!? </TD></TR></TABLE>

When I get an extra LS or B20 block. Anyone want to donate or have one for sale?

STREETWERKZ

you need to update your sig

hybrid_vtec

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by STREETWERKZ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you need to update your sig </TD></TR></TABLE>

Updated to version 1.8.2

Riceintegrars

u have ARP rod bolts rite??? u should be revving way higher than 7000 more like 8000. looks like u would be making much more power.

by the look of ur torque curve you would be 124lbs-ft@7500 which would make 177HP

if u went even higher u would probably be at 118lbs-ft@8000 which would make 180HP

but this is all calculations, and im just judging this by ur torque curve cause it seems its basically reacting the same way as ur old setup at high rpms, just alil more power

clint g

iTrader: (1)

This guy just dont like vtec and i respect that for the power u make

GUILOTINE

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hybrid_vtec &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">No didnt try the CAI, but he gave me some tips on how to build a nice ram air kit and where to find the supplies.

Not sure which dynapack it was. Why is there a difference in the readings?
</TD></TR></TABLE>
man what Intake did you tune with? Shawn's CAI did like 12hp better across the whole RPM band on both mine and Persian Mike's ITR's

yeah the 2000 reads about 10-12hp higher than the 4000 which is calibrated nearly identical as a dynojet

Odom

how does it ideal

hybrid_vtec

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Riceintegrars &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">u have ARP rod bolts rite??? u should be revving way higher than 7000 more like 8000. looks like u would be making much more power.

by the look of ur torque curve you would be 124lbs-ft@7500 which would make 177HP

if u went even higher u would probably be at 118lbs-ft@8000 which would make 180HP

but this is all calculations, and im just judging this by ur torque curve cause it seems its basically reacting the same way as ur old setup at high rpms, just alil more power</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yes I have ARP Rod Bolts and ACL bearings. I have been wondering the same thing. I think after I redo my exhaust and build the ram air, I will take the motor higher when i dyno. The last fuel adjust i had on the Crome table was 7000 and then 7900, so maybe if I could add a few more lines I may see more power.

I use that same calculator and thought about taking my car out and using my G-Tech SS to see if it show more power before I go back to the dyno, but I set the redline at 7600. If someone has a chip burner, i'll come over if you will remove the limiter.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by clint g &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">This guy just dont like vtec and i respect that for the power u make</TD></TR></TABLE>

I wouldnt say I dont like it, b/c I have owned my fair share of Vtec motors. I am just striving to do something different than everyone else. I like being under-estimated.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GUILOTINE &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
man what Intake did you tune with? Shawn's CAI did like 12hp better across the whole RPM band on both mine and Persian Mike's ITR's

yeah the 2000 reads about 10-12hp higher than the 4000 which is calibrated nearly identical as a dynojet </TD></TR></TABLE>

I used my Iceman that I converted to Short Ram. According the computer, it doesnt restrict my flow at all, however when we directed it away from the heat it made a big difference.

Since my numbers are pretty close to the same, i would say we used the 4000 or I think I would be showing 180 whp no problem.


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Odom &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">how does it idle? </TD></TR></TABLE>

It idles great now. Very close to when I had the 403 cams which wasnt much different from stock. My idle is set at 1200 though, anything below 1000 and it lopes like a bitch.

lohatch

i wouldnt be worried about revving your LS over 8K since you have rodbolts. rev it to where it wants to make power. replace bearings periodically if you are worried.

GUILOTINE

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by lohatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i wouldn't be worried about revving your LS over 8K since you have rodbolts. rev it to where it wants to make power. replace bearings periodically if you are worried. </TD></TR></TABLE>
man replacing bearings periodically is a bitch

Maybe your not making so much top end power because non-Vtec head don't flow as well as vtec heads. If your so adamant against vtec why not just throw on a P72 head with some killers on there just for fun

A2_8U

Ive used dynapacks a few times and i always have the little upward dip at the end of the run. I think its a graph error and dont think u will make anymore power reving to 8k

hybrid_vtec

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GUILOTINE &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
man replacing bearings periodically is a bitch

Maybe your not making so much top end power because non-Vtec head don't flow as well as vtec heads. If your so adamant against vtec why not just throw on a P72 head with some killers on there just for fun </TD></TR></TABLE>

Actually thought of using one of my B16 heads and using Vtec Killers, but decided not too. I dont have that kind of money, and I want to continue pursuing the path I have chosen.

I have a P8R head that was donated to me by one of my buddies. I want to find a b20 block or a sleeved LS block. The P8R heads have larger ports and valves(same size as Vtec heads). A 2.0L with my setup and similar compression should put me int he 190's to 200 whp no problem. There are a few guys floating around here pushing those kind of numbers. Once i go 2.0L though, i will be going with a larger cam.

Changing bearings isnt that bad. At least I dont think so.

onepoint6i

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GUILOTINE &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
man what Intake did you tune with? Shawn's CAI did like 12hp better across the whole RPM band on both mine and Persian Mike's ITR's

yeah the 2000 reads about 10-12hp higher than the 4000 which is calibrated nearly identical as a dynojet </TD></TR></TABLE>

im pretty positive he's dynoing all customers cars on the 4000 now...BUT he did say he was going to recalibrate the 4000 to read like the 2000, so who knows if he has done that yet..

onepoint6i

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hybrid_vtec &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


Changing bearings isnt that bad. At least I dont think so.</TD></TR></TABLE>

i wish i could say that, replacing the actual bearings on my engine is easy, its removing the jimfab crossmember front mount and the whole 1 peice header thats a pain in the ***, damn EF's there's no space for ****

GUILOTINE

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hybrid_vtec &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Actually thought of using one of my B16 heads and using Vtec Killers, but decided not too. I dont have that kind of money, and I want to continue pursuing the path I have chosen.

I have a P8R head that was donated to me by one of my buddies. I want to find a b20 block or a sleeved LS block. The P8R heads have larger ports and valves(same size as Vtec heads). A 2.0L with my setup and similar compression should put me int he 190's to 200 whp no problem. There are a few guys floating around here pushing those kind of numbers. Once i go 2.0L though, i will be going with a larger cam.

Changing bearings isnt that bad. At least I dont think so.</TD></TR></TABLE>
crazy i have never seen any 2L w/o Vtec hit the 200whp mark...that would be a milestone for you non-Vtec guys