Tbone

Not sure if the drag guys in here from the boost crowd visit the allmotor forum but theres been a thread tracking the progress of my cyl head repair at RLZ.. The head was a fully ported 250whp NA head that was flowing in the low 280s

After bending up some valve s again i deciede to send it to RLZ to get repaired..
Apon his great rep here with the racers I was hoping for a miracle.....well i got one ..
Heres the thread for you guys if you missed it. Take a look as we flow tested My Jenvey ITB's , Jg sheetmetal, JG Victor,Skunk2 and Endyn AIR carbon intake manifolds.
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1139085

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for those who like to skip to the end of the story

poorguy

damn, is that all? the k and f heads flow that much on the exhaust. i guess that's why everyone's switching to the k/f motors.

Suprdave

Yea, ok...a K head flows 305-310ish on that bench.

So, yea...the K-series is good...so? 308cfm is enough to make ~300whp.

Tbone

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by poorguy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">damn, is that all? the k and f heads flow that much on the exhaust. i guess that's why everyone's switching to the k/f motors.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'm showing the before and after of some good head work..get off the peak #'s
This is a 100% street car that drags once in awhile , not a race car..
If I had deeper pockets I would try a k series, but that will never happen for me .. I'll keep pushing my b stuff to the limits... or until someone gives me a k to play with..

skunked

When are you planning on hitt'n the dyno?

poorguy

sorry, i have nothing against your numbers they're great, my post was just more me thinking out loud. i was just thinking it's easy to see why the b-powered honda drag racers were getting slaughetered last year by gm in pro-fwd and hr, and by skunk in am. even the shitty saab ecotec heads outflow the b-series heads by a ton.

Tbone

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by skunked &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">When are you planning on hitt'n the dyno?

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It wont even ship back to me till next week .. So I dont think it will be for at least 3 weeks from then.. Theres a possibility of 10 whp from this so I'm pretty excited..I want to re ring the motor but then it wouldnt be a fair comparison before and after, so hopefully i can get another season out of it.. As of right now the motor has about 10k on it with 300+dyno pulls....It would be nuts if I can get another 10k out of it...

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by poorguy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">sorry, i have nothing against your numbers they're great, my post was just more me thinking out loud. i was just thinking it's easy to see why the b-powered honda drag racers were getting slaughetered last year by gm in pro-fwd and hr, and by skunk in am. even the shitty saab ecotec heads outflow the b-series heads by a ton.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I try not to think about the k stuff, as soon as they start poping up here on the street I'll no longer be the fast car
Plus it will be a whole new learning curve for me as I have 0 experience with the k or f series..

poorguy

by your graph, it looks like he went with a larger valve? got any ex. #'s? as for the cost of the k series stuff, i don't see as being too expensive. in your case w/ so much work done to your current motor it's not cost effective, but for someone starting out on they're project it'll probably be cheaper to just start w/ a k. the k/f head flows as much stock as your fully ported head.

Suprdave

Good luck finding K-parts that aren't all custom.

The B-Series has had 15 years of development...and we are still finding power.

AutotechRD

Who has a K or F series head that flows over 300CFM on the exhaust @ 28"?

I'd bet (uneducated) that a K or F series would still need port work to reach 300CFM on the intake side.

Tbone

We went with a .5mm larger intake valve and a .5 smaller ex..
So now were at 1mm intake and stock exhaust.. We had no other choice as the throats were opened up way too much by the previous person who did the valve job..We intended to originally put stock size valves in it all together as the .5 overs I had been running were limiting my cam choices.

earl

I flowed a stock used F20C head and got 324 at .450" and 331 at .500" on the intake side, of course. Pretty amazing from a used head. I'm not saying what we got after porting, larger valves with a multi angle seat. I have heard that the F20C in stock condition will out flow the best reworked K20A2

Suprdave

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by earl &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I have heard that the F20C in stock condition will out flow the best reworked K20A2</TD></TR></TABLE>

We will see :D


Modified by Suprdave at 8:52 PM 2/24/2005

poorguy

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by earl &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I flowed a stock used F20C head and got 324 at .450" and 331 at .500" on the intake side, of course. Pretty amazing from a used head. I'm not saying what we got after porting, larger valves with a multi angle seat. I have heard that the F20C in stock condition will out flow the best reworked K20A2</TD></TR></TABLE>

that's exactly what i'm saying, guys can keep developing the b head until the end of time and they'll continually make small gains, but what's the point when these new heads will blow you outta the water right out the gate. for the pro guys we're at a point where if you're not flowing 400cfm intake you might as well stay home. fyi, i've seen a worked k20 make 408/310 @ 28". the f can definitely make more than the k, but you gotta watch out for the clicking clearance.

blues2k3

for all the work Earl has done on my F20c head

Squirtle

I don't think we will every master the b but the k is definetly comming up.

JDogg

this was a fix-er-upper right?? not a full on race port right?

Tbone

It was already a full race port by another company.. Dpr originally did the head but then it was reworked by someone here on HT... Brad was the last guy to rework it and these are the gains over what the last guy did to it.

ZEX Man

Brad's stuff rocks....he did wonders for my SOHC race motor. I don't even care about just flow numbers.....is all about the port velocity AND the flow. Brad's port designs make a broad powerband that will accelerate your car through the gears faster. His stuff et's better, regardless of the dyno numbers......

ZEX Man

Boostfed

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ZEX Man &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Brad's stuff rocks....he did wonders for my SOHC race motor. I don't even care about just flow numbers.....is all about the port velocity AND the flow. Brad's port designs make a broad powerband that will accelerate your car through the gears faster. His stuff et's better, regardless of the dyno numbers......

ZEX Man</TD></TR></TABLE>


That is why his EXHAUST flow #s are proprietary!!!! I am very very very very happy with my head that Brad did also! to Tbone and Brad and Boostfed

poorguy

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ZEX Man &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Brad's stuff rocks....he did wonders for my SOHC race motor. I don't even care about just flow numbers.....is all about the port velocity AND the flow. Brad's port designs make a broad powerband that will accelerate your car through the gears faster. His stuff et's better, regardless of the dyno numbers......

ZEX Man</TD></TR></TABLE>

so what velocity numbers are you getting outta your rlz head?

BodyKits NW

Great Results. I will have to check out my flow numbers from my Alaniz head. I would probably love to see what Brad can do with my b16 head, but I just can't wait that long.

Boostfed

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BodyKits NW &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Great Results. I will have to check out my flow numbers from my Alaniz head. I would probably love to see what Brad can do with my b16 head, but I just can't wait that long. </TD></TR></TABLE>

He has a CnC program now Andy so the heads are being turned around QUICKER!!! Then he hand finishes each one after the CnC port work, valve joba nd all! No worries man no worries!

Tbone

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BodyKits NW &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Great Results. I will have to check out my flow numbers from my Alaniz head. I would probably love to see what Brad can do with my b16 head, but I just can't wait that long. </TD></TR></TABLE>

What wait?? this was all done in less than 2 weeks? And we were waiting for custom Ferrea valves the whole time..

b19coupe

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tbone &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What wait?? this was all done in less than 2 weeks? And we were waiting for custom Ferrea valves the whole time..</TD></TR></TABLE>
Not everybody gets the special Tbone treatment from RLZ