Knestis

I did a little study on the 2004 season expenses and the numbers are interesting...

If I "life" the car at 5 years, in exactly the condition it will be in a couple weeks (once pre-season stuff is done), it will cost about $100/hour over that time if I average 35 hours of actual fun time per season. This is based on this past year of regionals, a hillclimb, the enduro, track days, rallycross, etc., and NOT counting street time.

In addition, event expenses (gas, entries, lodging) and consummables (non-capital equipment, stuff like pads that are not expected to last, fluids, filters, tires, etc.) cost about $170/hour - based on the same assumptions.

This means that, were the car to depreciate to $zero in five seasons, it would cost about $270 per hour to race it. Of course, that depreciation schedule is just an assumption - a guess for the purposes of doing the math - and if it got squished next month, the hourly capital costs would obviously be way higher.

This also assumes that I don't continue to spend money on improvements - and there is a LOT of room left for that kind of fun. Understand too, that most of my track time was at VIR (slept at home and commuted each morning) and I don't own a truck or trailer (add THAT to the hourly cost!). On the other hand, I didn't cheap out on parts quality and I replaced pretty much everything that moves this year - in some cases twice. I also keep the thing in my driveway.

I confess that I'm a little surprised at how low that number really is, all things considered. It "feels" more expensive, since building the car was a chunk of change up front - just over $17K for an ITB "minus" car that is about 6 seconds away from the VIR lap record. (The driver is an additional 4 behind.) I also didn't tally up tools and equipment, frankly because I ran out of enthusiasm, but that would probably not be inconsequential dough either.

If you are reading this thinking that you want to go racing, do some math first but if you do decide to take the plunge, TRY to do it in a way that won't put you into debt. It's fun but it ain't cheap fun.

K

MaddMatt

I think Scott said (and I agree) to figure out what class you can afford, and race 1 class lower.

Matt<---Can't afford ITC, not going racing ANYTIME soon.....

phat-S

The other thing for anyone to remember though is that no matter how much you figure out the costs in advance, there are no warranties or guarantees w/ this kind of hobby. As you mention, you may "life" the car at 5 years but in all reality, a multi-thousand dollar race motor can let go cause of mistaken plumbing. A multi-thousand dollar gearbox can turn to a industrial mixer due to a $.05 plastic zurk plugging up an oil passage. What might be a minor hit, be it from another car or inanimate object can bend a set of shocks. Or the irritation of stuff like a learing lockup that ends up throwing away an 8 minute old sticker tire or quick hands that let a brake pad fall out, bend and before you hit turn 1 on your out lap permanently destroys (effectively) a set of pads. The thing that seems to be the easiest to manage is that something that wasn't put in the budget will appear on the dollar-outbox radar at some point.

So like you said, it might be projected to last x period of time but when it doesn't, that dollars to seattime rate increases dramatically (and its not too hard to do at least to some extent).

turfer

Kirk,

Sounds like you have been very efficient.

After averaging the event costs for a season, figuring in a depreciation schedule on long term consumables (like driving suits, helmets, visors,etc), annual maintenance on the car, truck, and trailer, annual replacement stuff on the car and gear (tie downs, canopy poles, tarps, nomex socks and gloves), in season consumables, travel and boarding costs, and refreshments, I get a lot closer to $9/minute of fun.

I budget 1K per race weekend and an additional $500 per weekend for the long term stuff. And that was before I became extremely fond of the Hoosiers stickiness this last year.

Rick

turfer

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by phat-S &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">a multi-thousand dollar race motor can let go</TD></TR></TABLE>

We popped three at the last race of the year. Thank God they weren't all exspensive race prepped motors(just one). The 2nd one hurt the most because of all the effort to change it in a couple of hours and have it ready to go before the day was over. Nut and bolted everything...everything but the drain plug.

Must have been something in the water that weekend as we were not the only ones to mark the proper line on the track.

Rick

Dr. EKology

It costs most of your rent for the month, about half of your grocery budget, all of your 'going-out' money, and your credit card payment. Thats the monthly cost of it, if you want yearly, its going to include 40% of your insurance payment, and all of your tax refund too. The lifetime cost is 4 of your last 5 girlfriends in addition to your last marriage. Now that I think of it, its not all that expensive.

tnord

i average $1000/weekend including consumables by my rough calculations.

Dr. EKology

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tnord &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i average $1000/weekend including consumables by my rough calculations.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Is that including the monthly payment for you Duramax?

tnord

nah.......the $300/month payment for the Silverado is not included in that.

stormy

your life

DMF

I gave the machine shop my left arm yesterday... how do we calculate that into the expenditures?

stormy

just be glad it's not your typing arm

ekek888

all racers are masochist and to go racing cost a lot of time, money and effort.

.RJ

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tnord &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">nah.......the $300/month payment for the Silverado is not included in that. </TD></TR></TABLE>

What about body repair?

slammed_93_hatch

i read these threads alot, and always come away with a negative feealing. Most just because people complain about how expensive it is, and i do agree it is costly but every other hobby is too.


I just look at it like this, as long as im having fun and still paying the bills, and investing, then who cares about how much it costs. When it starts becomeing not fun then you need to think about it.

Knestis

Please don't take my original post wrong: I am NOT complaining. I brought this up only because I really believe that we have an obligation to be honest with people about what to expect, so they can go into this game with their eyes wide open - in addition to their wallet.

K

Sean O'Gorman

I have very little interest in material goods. Give me an apartment, some cool home theater stuff, Internet, and food, and I'm set for life.

But then there is that part about wanting to spend every dime of my disposable income on racing. Sometimes I wonder, if I had no interest in going racing after I graduate this summer, would I have even gone to college at all?

phat-S

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by slammed_93_hatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i read these threads alot, and always come away with a negative feealing. Most just because people complain about how expensive it is, and i do agree it is costly but every other hobby is too.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Its more as advice than as a complaint. True that many hobbies are expensive but very few others depend as much on a constant infusion of money w/ very little compensation as reward and the constant that it could mostly be written off w/ very little "at fault" to the hobbiest. Folks that are educated to the pitfalls are much more likely to have healthy expectations.

ryan12321

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by phat-S &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Its more as advice than as a complaint. True that many hobbies are expensive but very few others depend as much on a constant infusion of money w/ very little compensation as reward and the constant that it could mostly be written off w/ very little "at fault" to the hobbiest. Folks that are educated to the pitfalls are much more likely to have healthy expectations.</TD></TR></TABLE>

And I for one am thankful of these posts. Everytime I think I can move up to road racing I get these reminders to talk me back into reality. I'm sticking to auto-x for awhile longer.

Catch 22

Its not complaining. The realities are pretty harsh.
You can have a perfect year in IT racing (no failures or crashes) and still spend over $10,000. Thats not complaining, its reality. Reality people need to be aware of BEFORE they start welding a cage into a perfectly good car.

We've been crunching numbers a good bit around here lately, and unfortunately it looks like 2005 will likely be the end of our racing "careers." With a kid starting college in 2006, unless there is a drastic and unforseen financial swing to the plus side, we simply won't be able to afford to race. The thought damned near tosses me into depression, but its a reality I can't change unless I just lie to myself with the calculator. And THAT eventually catches up to you in a really bad way.

As things sit now, the plan is to sell off everything but suits and helmets and try to buy, beg, trade, or plead for a couple of enduro co-drives a year to hold licenses. Other than that... Autocross locally.

Hey, thats real life. Alex's education is far more important than a few weekends a year having fun at the track.
Its gonna suck though. Really, really suck.

turfer

See, now Scott's post is whining and complaining...Not that racing costs too much but that priorities have intervened to temporarily prevent him from throwing his money on racing.

I am more than willing to spend money on racing and realize that I can't afford to race anything I want, ie SWCTC. I can afford to race competitively at the front of ITA though. ITS would break the bank or I would be uncompetitive, which honestly is not an option.

Rick

RR98ITR

This would be "a pretty good time" for some ******* - you know, like on Honda-Tech - to tell Scott that he's a "loser" and doesn't have the mindset or drive of a "winner".

But I'm not that guy. Scott - congratulations for having so much sense and honor. And good luck "keeping your foot in it".

I had no idea you had this coming at you, and I thought you were the meister of matching racing with revenue (I'd never known anyone to successfully divide by zero before).

Scott, who, reaching for possible solutions to your situation, wonders: "What if you just got a ****** job?"

rice_classic

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RR98ITR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Scott, who, reaching for possible solutions to your situation, wonders: "What if you just got a ****** good job?"</TD></TR></TABLE>

There, fixed.

Racing ain't cheap.

RacerBowie

I am doing a similar study on the 2005 season, but with a twist: A shop is doing 99% of the work on the car, including dragging it to the track. I will support myself at the track barring any major catastrophies.

Every penny spent from the car coming off track at the ARRC, through the ARRC weekend this year, will be inserted into the old spreadsheet.

I am VERY interested (read:concerned) how much this adds to the bottom line.

I do currently know of 3 positives from this arrangement:

1) $500 per month not being spent on a Truck payment, and insurance for said truck.
2) Wife is happy with more space in the carport
3) I don't have to work on the damn thing all the time, which makes both me AND the car happy... it is much more reliable now that REAL mechanics are working on it.

We will see if the added expense comes out to more than $500 per month, and is worth it in other intangible ways.

Catch 22

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RR98ITR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> "What if you just got a ****** job?"</TD></TR></TABLE>

I have a job. Its just not a very good one. In Albany GA, population 40K, there isn't much to choose from. Of course, I knew this when I moved here, so I can't complain. Renee and I spent 3 years commuting 7 hour round trips to see each other on the weekends because I couldn't find a job here and she couldn't find one in Atlanta (she's an engineer at a paper plant and there aren't any paper plants in Atlanta). In the end, the weekend trips had gone beyond brutal and we had to do something. At least we went from 2 house payment to 1.
So, I'm still hoping to find a good job in the next year or so, but there's nothing that would indicate this is going to happen. Together we make plenty of money to live comfortably, but its not enough to live comfortably, race, and send a kid to college. Obviously, racing loses that 3 way fight.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by turfer &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">See, now Scott's post is whining and complaining...</TD></TR></TABLE>

Whatever makes you feel good man.
Whatever.