99-DC2

iTrader: (1)

I've been contemplating on building a 240whp B-series for street use and daily driving and have been researching on this for a year now. Through my searches and inquiries I have found the following combination of parts to be necessary for such a project:

Bottom End
-resleeved B18c or B20 to 84mm using their respective crankshafts
-fully balanced rotating assembly (crank, pistons, rods)
-CR of 11.5-12.5:1 (yes it's a huge range, we might have hugely varying views on this, bring them all on)
-if using B20, must have block girdle (Golden Eagle, OEM, **** even Spoon girdle assembly)
-i'm favored towards Wiseco's coated pistons since they have the closest tolerances according to my engine builder and, so far, the lightest (could be mistaken, are there ones that are closer?) but am also aware that you can get pistons coated whatever brand chosen (coating is not necessary though but is a viable option)
-as for rods Eagle, Probe, Crower, Pauter, haven't really chosen yet as long as they're light and very strong...
-any other things that are omitted on this list, mention them

Head
-GSR LMA
-competition ported head with proper chamber work for accomodating 84mm bore (Alaniz, Portflow, or others who are capable can't think of all of them)
-milled between .01-.03, this will depend on chosen compression ratio, but most likely i will get my desired compression ratio through proper piston choice where the milling option can be eliminated
-titanium retainers and proper valvesprings that can handle a minimum of 12mm lift or higher that is not too hard on the rockers (through experience TODAs are excellent, i've heard great things also about Rocket's and Portflow's valvetrain components)
-cams must be at the minimum of the stg II variety like Toda B's or C's, Skunk2 Stg.II or higher (BLOX, Wicked as well), Jun 3, BC 4... I like the powerband that BC 4 put out according to a dyno of a member that posted on here (TBone's i believe). It has impressive midrange and top end, i might go with those... of course i will also get cam gears
-SI stainless valves (they work great in my experience)
-whatever else is omitted please mention

Intake and exhaust
-Skunk2, ITR, VictorX, will be ported and polished to properly compliment the porting of the head (again Alaniz, Portflow possibly, etc.) ITB's are not an option since those are kinda hard to hide from underhood inspections
-TB between 68-70mm at the plate
-i will stick with the ITR intake box and tube for now with K&N drop in (for that stock look) if not then i'll go with an AEM cold air with bypass valve
-Hytech, SMSP, DTR, or any equivalent header
-Hytech twin loop or custom fabricated 2.5" ID exhaust... obviously it must flow good and civil at the same time...

Tuning
-a minimum of a Hondata S100

The operating ranges of this engine will be at 9000rpm, no higher, so desired peak power will probably be between 8200-8500 and will be running 91 octane at maximum. If i can get that 240 whp at a lower range the better (with a wide torque band), although through my research it is not likely. I also wouldn't be surprised if it peaked higher than specified. There is no budget yet so mention everything and go wild.

This is more like a discussion as much as an inquiry and I'm hoping that through this thread I can make the proper choices of components and finally make a budget on going about this and also have this thread contribute a ton of valuable information through the help of all the All Motor enthusiasts of Honda Tech

Oh one more thing, work with these definitions:-
Streetable: a car that can be driven with considerable ease and comfort in rush hour traffic and majority of road conditions, at the same time kick a Corvette's *** at will
Reliable: an engine that will last at least 75000 miles

Without further ado let the discussion begin....

FATBOYeg6

i think it can be done, but the biggest question is money. from the list you have, it doesn't look cheap. i am looking forward to this thread with my recent choice to go all motor.

siR cr-x

looks like you took some time and done most of you homework from what you have mention your set up will make real good power just get a real good tuner and you'll be fine, quick question. what kind of tranny are you going you to use? good luck with your set up

na200whp

you should have no problem putting down 225-240 whp. dont get to stuck on a # . if you hit 240 thats great but its not as easy as it sounds. what will this motor be going into?

99-DC2

iTrader: (1)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by siR cr-x &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">looks like you took some time and done most of you homework from what you have mention your set up will make real good power just get a real good tuner and you'll be fine, quick question. what kind of tranny are you going you to use? good luck with your set up </TD></TR></TABLE>

I plan to mate it with a USDM ITR tranny. I like the gear ratios on those (not too tall like LS neither too short like B16 hydro) and it already has a factory Helical LSD.

99-DC2

iTrader: (1)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by na200whp &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you should have no problem putting down 225-240 whp. dont get to stuck on a # . if you hit 240 thats great but its not as easy as it sounds. what will this motor be going into?</TD></TR></TABLE>

I definitely agree that it will be anything but easy to hit 240. I hardly see any examples and if so the configuration and setup is not disclosed (totally understandable as they are mostly race motors). I'm impressed with the torque band of your engine (link from your sig). I like to achieve that torque band but make it wider up to 8200-8500, perhaps BC 4's will do that for you? Oh and to answer your question it will go in a 2000 EK 4-door.

Keep the information comming

boosted92

If you want 240 WHP reliably and in a daily driver, why sink thousands into it for a naturally aspirated setup? It's all good and fine for a weekend setup, but a small turbo and some good tuning and you can put down more than 240 WHP with lots of mid and low range torque to get your car going on the street, plus it will be cheaper than your N/A setup with sleeves, headwork cams, and the whole shebang. FWIW, I drive my Integra every single day of the week. Full leather interior, a stereo, 17's, and sometimes a couple of baby seats. It's quite quiet with the turbo, isn't noisy at idle, doesn't have cams with huge amounts of valve-spring busting lift, it's just a solid car. Honestly, I just don't think 240 WHP on 91 octane without a power adder can be done with a great amount of comfort and longevity out of a B-series.

99-DC2

iTrader: (1)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by boosted92 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If you want 240 WHP reliably and in a daily driver, why sink thousands into it for a naturally aspirated setup? It's all good and fine for a weekend setup, but a small turbo and some good tuning and you can put down more than 240 WHP with lots of mid and low range torque to get your car going on the street, plus it will be cheaper than your N/A setup with sleeves, headwork cams, and the whole shebang. FWIW, I drive my Integra every single day of the week. Full leather interior, a stereo, 17's, and sometimes a couple of baby seats. It's quite quiet with the turbo, isn't noisy at idle, doesn't have cams with huge amounts of valve-spring busting lift, it's just a solid car. Honestly, I just don't think 240 WHP on 91 octane without a power adder can be done with a great amount of comfort and longevity out of a B-series.</TD></TR></TABLE>

That's why this thread is not in the FI forum. But to answer your question I chose NA because of the challenge and I like the consistency of it's behavior, I like the way they sound, and the simplicity of tuning it. In short, I just love NA. Your views and ideas are definitely valid

Aquafina

iTrader: (3)

PM'd.

ShaunRR

Get in contact with Omniman. His daily driver runs a B20VTEC that makes over 240whp on 91 octane gas.

The parts list is surprisingly simple. It uses a GSR crank and rods, for instance.

99-DC2

iTrader: (1)

Damn I almost forgot about Omniman's builds. They're mostly conservative too and make awesome power!

ShaunRR

I think he is running on the stock B20 sleeves too.

rev limiter

Great topic

I am loooking for a similiar built but most people say that it is not reliable. But i think that depends on the definition of reliable. For me my engine lasting 50k miles would be good enough. My plans on set up :

b18c3 gsr
GE sleeves
84.5 mm bore
Eagle rods with arp rod bolts
Wiseco pistons ( i think coated )
13:1 cr (we have 94 at the pump over here)
Arp head bolts
Stock crank
Stock headgasket laser cut for 84.5mm bore.
Everything balanced and blue printed

b16a1 first gen head
port and polish (not open up chambers)
wicked stage 2 cams
GE camgears
Rev or SuperTech stainless steel valves
14 mm lift dual valve springs
titanium retainers
new itr lma's
new bronze valve guides
new valve seals

Stock itr intake mani, runners smoothend out.
Max bore 64 mm tb
rc 440 cc injectors
hondata s200
p28 ecu and obd0 to obd1 conversion.

Hoping to get 230 whp and run 12's. I think i will be done begin march.

For me the car needs to be a weekend drag racer (not every weekend) and some half daily driving during the week days.

ShaunRR

You will probably have trouble making it to 230whp with an ITR intake mani.

BTW, I though the B18c3 was the Euro type R motor.

Mirage

Sounds like the B series shootout motors. The winning motor (R&D Dyno) made ~ 280HP on an engine dyno and ~230WHP on a mustang chassis dyno revving to 9,200. That was with ITB's and an open exhaust. The majority of the other motors that had standard plenum type intakes mades 250-260HP on the engine dyno which would have been about 210WHP. 240WHP will be real tough.

LSVTEC 91 Civic

Just noticed you mentioned using GSR LMAs, Might want to use the Prelude LMAs, they work great.

99-DC2

iTrader: (1)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rochesterricer &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I think he is running on the stock B20 sleeves too. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah, last time I remember his bottom end is all OEM parts (B20 pistons, GSR rods, GSR crank, etc) with compression in the low 10's:1. I believe he was using Rocket M22's. I wish I could find the dyno number's on those but the torque band on it was flat in the 150's.

99-DC2

iTrader: (1)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by LSVTEC 91 Civic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Just noticed you mentioned using GSR LMAs, Might want to use the Prelude LMAs, they work great.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah I've read that they are cheaper and better designed to handle major high lift cams.

ShaunRR

I thought I remeberred hearing that he is running Dynamic Spec B's now. I'm not really for sure on that though.

The 240whp dyno pulls are fairly new and I don't think they've been posted anywhere yet. You can PM MikeSarr_GSR and see if he can get a hold of them.

99-DC2

iTrader: (1)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rev limiter &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Great topic

I am loooking for a similiar built but most people say that it is not reliable. But i think that depends on the definition of reliable. For me my engine lasting 50k miles would be good enough. My plans on set up :

b18c3 gsr
GE sleeves
84.5 mm bore
Eagle rods with arp rod bolts
Wiseco pistons ( i think coated )
13:1 cr (we have 94 at the pump over here)
Arp head bolts
Stock crank
Stock headgasket laser cut for 84.5mm bore.
Everything balanced and blue printed

b16a1 first gen head
port and polish (not open up chambers)
wicked stage 2 cams
GE camgears
Rev or SuperTech stainless steel valves
14 mm lift dual valve springs
titanium retainers
new itr lma's
new bronze valve guides
new valve seals

Stock itr intake mani, runners smoothend out.
Max bore 64 mm tb
rc 440 cc injectors
hondata s200
p28 ecu and obd0 to obd1 conversion.

Hoping to get 230 whp and run 12's. I think i will be done begin march.

For me the car needs to be a weekend drag racer (not every weekend) and some half daily driving during the week days. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I notice you're running 13:1. Will Skunk2 Stg. III work well with these or is that still overkill? Anyway with this setup of yours i'm confident you can get 230whp. A local shop around here (DNR) has 1.8 B18C's with P30 oversized running almost 230whp. Runnin open header i think

99-DC2

iTrader: (1)

Oh wait, yeah you're right, he was running Dynamic....

MikeSarr_GSR

hey guys, I know for a fact that omni is running BC4 cams and has been since about Aprilish... recently he pulled his head and refreshed the valvetrain, had the AEBS intake manifold extrude honed. his motor is only pushing about 11.2:1 cr or something like that... and yes, I have seen a dyno he sent me about a month ago. I dont want to go posting about this and leaving you hanging, just wanted to tell you to contact steve. his motor is making reliable, insane power on 91 and he drives it every day, it has lots of miles too over 50K with the CRV pistons the last dyno I saw was from C.A.T.'s dyno and it was about to touch 260/and was over 170tq. for all purposes here, we know thats a motor that can touch 250 on a dynojet... hes only revving it to 8500... the plot that I saw kept making HP on the graph too. and yes, he is very conservative amid the power extracted. steve and I should be getting together soon to do some more stuff. I am very interested in his build and the future of B series buildups

LSVTEC 91 Civic

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DC2-99 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Yeah I've read that they are cheaper and better designed to handle major high lift cams.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yep, They're holding up great to my webs... Type R cams killed the B series LMAs.

99-DC2

iTrader: (1)

11.2:1 CR, 260whp/170wtq, 8500rpm max, 50k miles... those numbers look so good when put together like that it is very conservative and at the same time a menacing monster...

rev limiter

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DC2-99 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I notice you're running 13:1. Will Skunk2 Stg. III work well with these or is that still overkill? Anyway with this setup of yours i'm confident you can get 230whp. A local shop around here (DNR) has 1.8 B18C's with P30 oversized running almost 230whp. Runnin open header i think</TD></TR></TABLE>

Well there are more options like buddy club stage 4. Tbone is running them and he says there streetable and made the most power of all the cams he had tested in HIS engine. And i know i can't getr max power with a stock itr manifold but i am thinking let's go as it is now and see how much power i can make and what kind of times i can run next year.

So i have an upgrade left for later. For example buddy club 4 and a ported/extruded manifold.