ATS*Mark

just like the title says . if you have rid yourself of the famous cooling shooting from your overflow and blown headgaskets...how did you tq your studs , what sequence did you use? and what steps did you tq them in , how tight did you go?

SOHC_MShue

you having more problems with yours?

this last time I bought some new arp studs and tightened them in the block to 15 ft. lbs. and then step torqued my studs by 10 ft lb.s all the way to 60. Then I let the car run through a few heat cycles and then retorqued to 65 ft. lbs. I also didn't use any copperspray or rtv sealer this time because it doesn't seem to help and I get tired of scraping that **** off my head and block . I think that possibly the last time it blew it was because the studs backed out of the block from not being in there tight enough.

ATS*Mark

my head was warped , and i was dumb for not resurfacing it the first time .

mine are tqed to 80 right now , im taking the head off tomorow to resurface it and have my cometic ready to go. i just wanna see what steps and tq's people are doing that are having sucess....

what was the sequence???? if your looking at the studs from the top .... number them in the order you tightened them. was it like this?

7 3 1 5 9
8 4 2 6 10

ATS*Mark

what lube did you use on the studs , the assembly lube arp supplies?

beerbongskickass

I torqued mine down starting from the inside out to 25ft/lbs, 45ft/lbs, and then 65ft/lbs and used the ARP lude that was supllied with my head studs. I used a OEM honda headgasket and copper spray.

EDIT: When I checked my old head gasket it really didn't look that bad. My car actually drove fine and never over heated once. The only problem I had was my overflow tank filling up. I think what caused it was my shitty spiking internal wastegate. I started running 12psi, but everytime I hit full boost it would spike to 14-15psi and then drop to 12psi. I defintely need to get a tial.


Modified by beerbongskickass at 11:03 AM 12/16/2004

ELSpool

I checked my head and block, both were straight. Went back to OEM HG rather than the Cometic, tq down in 6 sequences starting from 15ft-lbs up to 82ft-lbs. 10 heat cycles re-torqued to 85ft-lbs. 6 months later, holding fine after 16,000km of weekend racing and daily driving at 300whp. Going Benson sleeves with a stepped deck for spring time, I'm just tired of worring about it because it just a matter of time before it leaks again.


Modified by ELSpool at 2:29 PM 12/16/2004

VTC_CiViC

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by beerbongskickass &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

EDIT: When I checked my old head gasket it really didn't look that bad. My car actually drove fine and never over heated once. The only problem I had was my overflow tank filling up. I think what caused it was my shitty spiking internal wastegate. I started running 12psi, but everytime I hit full boost it would spike to 14-15psi and then drop to 12psi. I defintely need to get a tial.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

Same here. When I ripped the kit off the Civic years ago, it was partly because I suspected a blown HG anyways. I ended up driving the car for another 2 years N/A without it ever once overheating or spewing coolant into the overflow tank. Now when I swapped the Y8 into the hatch, I tossed on a new HG but the old one actualy looked fine.. go figure? Oh well, 7psi for about a month (2nd time around) and no issues to date, 147k miles and counting

yellowturbo

the best thing is to go with a Benson block I can tell you cuz I had many problem before getting this block...

Stop thinking that ARP studs will stop the distorsion of your sleeves...

And even worst is to trust the copper spray... what a **** to use...

VTC_CiViC

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by yellowturbo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">the best thing is to go with a Benson block I can tell you cuz I had many problem before getting this block...

Stop thinking that ARP studs will stop the distorsion of your sleeves...

And even worst is to trust the copper spray... what a **** to use...</TD></TR></TABLE>

Benson eh? Why not Golden Eagle? Or AEBS?

I'm sure your block is working great for you, congrats, but again.. here I stand with nothing but copper spray on a stock HG with no issues.

yellowturbo

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by VTC_resurected_CiViC &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Benson eh? Why not Golden Eagle? Or AEBS?

I'm sure your block is working great for you, congrats, but again.. here I stand with nothing but copper spray on a stock HG with no issues. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Just because I talk from what I know... I use a Benson block and I love it, Earl deserved me with a great service too... a Golden Eagle or AEBS could be good too but I didnt tryed them... thats all.

boostincoupe

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by yellowturbo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">the best thing is to go with a Benson block I can tell you cuz I had many problem before getting this block...

Stop thinking that ARP studs will stop the distorsion of your sleeves...

And even worst is to trust the copper spray... what a **** to use...</TD></TR></TABLE>

A Benson block may be great, but I don't think you should go around telling people that stock sleeve SOHCs are guaranteed to lift the head when that's not true.

Here's what I did when my head was lifting:

-pulled the head and checked the block surface with a straightedge and feeler gauge (service limit: .002"). if the feeler gauge can slip through at any point on the block, you should definitely get it decked, or resurfaced (whatever it's called for blocks).

-sent the cylinder head to a machine shop, one that specializes in cylinder head work. this is a crucial part that I notice a lot of SOHC ninjas skipping or half-assing (aka DIY). Once my head arrived at the machine shop, I was informed that nearly all the valves were leaking, and that I needed new seals and guides. In addition, my head was warped like crazy. I ended up getting the head fully rebuilt with all new seals and guides, 3 angle valve job - basically rebuilt to a brand new state. This cost me $320, but it was well worth it.

-copper spray ownz me. I coated the **** out of my stock D16Y8 headgasket, until it was fully copper all around.

-ARP headstuds. Use the ARP lube, not 10w-30 motor oil or some **** like that. First, I torqued them down into the block with the allen wrench to hand-tight. Then, I used this sequence: 14 ft./lbs., 20, 40, 65 and 65 again for good measure. ARP recommends 60 ft./lbs., but I followed Boosted-Hybrid's advice and overtorqued them a few lbs. just in case.

-Make sure that both the block and head surfaces are clean and flat, and TAKE YOUR TIME!

Note: I have NOT retorqued my headstuds after 4 months and 3k miles. *shrug*

After all this...guess whose car is running just fine?

093turbo16

iTrader: (2)

man if we all had that kind of money, it would be soo easy.

boostincoupe

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 93turbo16 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">man if we all had that kind of money, it would be soo easy.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Who are you talking to?

yellowturbo

oh well you will see a good day it will happen.... the problem is that the stock sleeves move and it slowly scratch the HG... the distortion of the stock sleeves under the heat is sufficient to scrap the HG but the head will never lift.

Im happy for you if your car run fine... how much whp do you have ?

Bailhatch

Anyone do a step deck on a SOHC? Seems like that would be a good idea especially since the sealing problems are all between the chamber and the water jacket.

splitime

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by boostincoupe &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Who are you talking to?</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'd guess he's talking to get it sleeved boy.

And to saying copper spray is crap... its simply there to help adhesion and fill very minor imperfections in the head/block surface. It does the job it is intended for...

yellowturbo

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by boostincoupe &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

A Benson block may be great, but I don't think you should go around telling people that stock sleeve SOHCs are guaranteed to lift the head when that's not true.

Here's what I did when my head was lifting:

-pulled the head and checked the block surface with a straightedge and feeler gauge (service limit: .002"). if the feeler gauge can slip through at any point on the block, you should definitely get it decked, or resurfaced (whatever it's called for blocks).

-sent the cylinder head to a machine shop, one that specializes in cylinder head work. this is a crucial part that I notice a lot of SOHC ninjas skipping or half-assing (aka DIY). Once my head arrived at the machine shop, I was informed that nearly all the valves were leaking, and that I needed new seals and guides. In addition, my head was warped like crazy. I ended up getting the head fully rebuilt with all new seals and guides, 3 angle valve job - basically rebuilt to a brand new state. This cost me $320, but it was well worth it.

-copper spray ownz me. I coated the **** out of my stock D16Y8 headgasket, until it was fully copper all around.

-ARP headstuds. Use the ARP lube, not 10w-30 motor oil or some **** like that. First, I torqued them down into the block with the allen wrench to hand-tight. Then, I used this sequence: 14 ft./lbs., 20, 40, 65 and 65 again for good measure. ARP recommends 60 ft./lbs., but I followed Boosted-Hybrid's advice and overtorqued them a few lbs. just in case.

-Make sure that both the block and head surfaces are clean and flat, and TAKE YOUR TIME!

Note: I have NOT retorqued my headstuds after 4 months and 3k miles. *shrug*

After all this...guess whose car is running just fine? </TD></TR></TABLE>

I just saw that you run 8 psi on a Greddy kit... for sure that your car is running fine....


btw I dont see anything special in your theory ?? I just read all this and I think that its just the good procedure....

VTC_CiViC

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by yellowturbo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">btw I dont see anything special in your theory ?? </TD></TR></TABLE>

I didn't see any special in yours either. You paid out the *** to get a $40 D-series block sleeved, mmmmmkay, what's so special about that? I mean you need to understand that the VAST majority of SOHC ninjas aren't looking for big power, if they were they see the light and go B-series or spend $$$ to sleeve their D's. The fact that you went the more expensive route is your own choice, but to say that it's "the only safe route" is BS if you're looking for nothing more than 200-220whp in which case a set of ARP's, new HG and copper spray had already proven itself.

Remember, you can sleeved the block 100 times, but you can't change the architecture or the distortion under severe load which will (sooner or later) lead to damaged sleeves and/or blown headgaskets etc.

boostincoupe

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by yellowturbo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I just saw that you run 8 psi on a Greddy kit... for sure that your car is running fine....


btw I dont see anything special in your theory ?? I just read all this and I think that its just the good procedure....
</TD></TR></TABLE>

I was running 12-13 psi when I blew the HG, FYI.

I typed out my process because a lot of guys skip the resurfacing, checking of the block AND head surfaces, and don't torque the studs down to the proper torque ratings.

boostincoupe

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by yellowturbo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">oh well you will see a good day it will happen.... the problem is that the stock sleeves move and it slowly scratch the HG... the distortion of the stock sleeves under the heat is sufficient to scrap the HG but the head will never lift.

Im happy for you if your car run fine... how much whp do you have ? </TD></TR></TABLE>

not much, 180-200whp, somewhere in there.

093turbo16

iTrader: (2)

I was just refering to me and many others that don't have the money to dish out for a sleeved block.

boostincoupe

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 93turbo16 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I was just refering to me and many others that don't have the money to dish out for a sleeved block. </TD></TR></TABLE>

*raises hand*

eddyboy

I think part of the reason we see a lot of headgasket issues with D-series blocks is that people who use them are on a budget. Therefore don't spend the money or the time to get all the prep work done to get a good sealing block. Like reusing head studs, not getting the block and head decked, reusing head gaskets, etc etc.

I am not saying this is the reason for all headgasket issues but it will contribute to the problem.

For my own block, I had the block and head decked. Did a 3 step torque sequence 20 40 65 on ARP studs. I used copper spray as well. So far the motor is unboosted but i've had no headgasket issues so far. Hopefully i'll be boosted by January.

ComputerJLT

i dont know what you ******* are doing wrong but i've never had a problem with heads lifting or blown head gaskets

i've killed many many parts before i've killed head gaskets on both my d16s (a6/z6). Never had an issue.

On my A6 all i used was a oe honda composite hg w/ arp studs tq'd to 70lbs (first ever torque of the studs) and some copper spray. that motor lasted a long while; managed to bust all 4 ringlands due to hellacious detonation at high boost but the hg was fine; It was even round when i pulled the head off after 4-5k miles or so.
with the z6 i reused the a6's studs; an o'riley auto parts MLS head gasket and copper spray and tq'd the bolts to 75lbs. Again blew the pistons before the gasket went. Both heads and blocks were check with a straight edge and were within spec and cleaned before assembly. You pussies need to torque yours studs that 55lbs they tell you to use wont hold anything except maybe a high compression na motor. You can't be scared of the torque when it comes to the studs

There is nothing wrong with stock d sleeves; and if you have to go buy a block that cost more than i've spent on my entire setup just to fix a head lifting issue then you're either an idiot or have more money than sense or are a pay-to-play idiot douce bag ricer.

VTC_CiViC

Heh, service manual says to torque the stock headstuds down to 49ft-lbs

..I went 55