Latest Korbach Frame Lock Review
11-01-2004, 12:59 PM
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Latest Korbach Frame Lock Review
I took part in a recent group buy and as part of the deal, we were asked to include a brief write up about the entire experience, good or bad. Mine is as follows:
Packaging: As others have said before, these parts were by far the best packaged products I have ever received from any aftermarket company period. Some people have felt that it was unnecessary, however I felt that if you're going to spend good money for something, it's nice to see a company that not only takes pride in their packaging and presentation but it also shows that the precision made parts inside were well taken care of to prevent damage which in this case would have caused major problems with the installation of them.
Parts: Everything in the kit was complete and of high quality including the instruction manual which is very easy to follow and has excellent detail. Again, the best set of instructions I've ever received from a company before, period.
Installation: Took me about an hour and I used a cordless drill without any problems at all.
Subjective Review: To begin with my car which I've owned since new only has 41,000km's on it (approx 25,500 mi) mostly from storing it in the winters and working a lot, so it's in very good condition to say the least for being 4 years old. As you can see in my Sig, my car has all the braces (except for a lower rear), good springs and struts and sway bar. I also run Falken Azenis tires so the car handles extremely well to begin with. To be honest I couldn't imagine the car handling much better than it already does and when I installed the Frame locks, the handling did improve but it wasn't a night and day difference in my case. Overall the car felt more solid as a structure, handled bumps better as in felt smoother and they didn't unsettle the car as much as before. It definitely cornered flatter and felt more stable and sharpened the steering response as promised by the manufacturer.
Track/Race Review: In anticipation of installing the Frame Locks on my car I went to the local road race track to run some laps for a day to get a good baseline for my cars performance before vs after the locks. To give some background, I have attended a few high performance driving/race schools out at the track over the years and have participated in all forms of racing over the last 15 years, and raced motocross when I was young so I consider my skill level to be above average.
I ran out at the track for a full day and averaged ALL my (16) laps together and got 1:23 for a final number. The next time a went out a week later I ran another 16 laps and averaged 1:19 for a final number. I was quite impressed with my results on the track since I was able to record lap times faster than I had ever recorded in my car previously, out there at any time. Four seconds may not sound like a lot to some people but to any of you that race out there I'm sure you will appreciate the significance in it. I doubt anyone would be able to measure such a difference from bolting on a strut tower bar! I'm sure that an expert level driver would be able to improve on those results with the frame locks installed.
Summary: I am happy with the Korbach frame locks as a whole. I didn't notice the "night and day" difference that some people have said but I could feel a definite improvement in the way the car handled. The track testing showed that the car gave me the confident feedback I needed to push it harder through the turns etc which allowed me to improve my times a good deal. Overall I'd have to say it was the smoothness that I felt with the Frame locks installed that allowed me to drive faster....everyone knows smooth equals fast in racing!
Packaging: As others have said before, these parts were by far the best packaged products I have ever received from any aftermarket company period. Some people have felt that it was unnecessary, however I felt that if you're going to spend good money for something, it's nice to see a company that not only takes pride in their packaging and presentation but it also shows that the precision made parts inside were well taken care of to prevent damage which in this case would have caused major problems with the installation of them.
Parts: Everything in the kit was complete and of high quality including the instruction manual which is very easy to follow and has excellent detail. Again, the best set of instructions I've ever received from a company before, period.
Installation: Took me about an hour and I used a cordless drill without any problems at all.
Subjective Review: To begin with my car which I've owned since new only has 41,000km's on it (approx 25,500 mi) mostly from storing it in the winters and working a lot, so it's in very good condition to say the least for being 4 years old. As you can see in my Sig, my car has all the braces (except for a lower rear), good springs and struts and sway bar. I also run Falken Azenis tires so the car handles extremely well to begin with. To be honest I couldn't imagine the car handling much better than it already does and when I installed the Frame locks, the handling did improve but it wasn't a night and day difference in my case. Overall the car felt more solid as a structure, handled bumps better as in felt smoother and they didn't unsettle the car as much as before. It definitely cornered flatter and felt more stable and sharpened the steering response as promised by the manufacturer.
Track/Race Review: In anticipation of installing the Frame Locks on my car I went to the local road race track to run some laps for a day to get a good baseline for my cars performance before vs after the locks. To give some background, I have attended a few high performance driving/race schools out at the track over the years and have participated in all forms of racing over the last 15 years, and raced motocross when I was young so I consider my skill level to be above average.
I ran out at the track for a full day and averaged ALL my (16) laps together and got 1:23 for a final number. The next time a went out a week later I ran another 16 laps and averaged 1:19 for a final number. I was quite impressed with my results on the track since I was able to record lap times faster than I had ever recorded in my car previously, out there at any time. Four seconds may not sound like a lot to some people but to any of you that race out there I'm sure you will appreciate the significance in it. I doubt anyone would be able to measure such a difference from bolting on a strut tower bar! I'm sure that an expert level driver would be able to improve on those results with the frame locks installed.
Summary: I am happy with the Korbach frame locks as a whole. I didn't notice the "night and day" difference that some people have said but I could feel a definite improvement in the way the car handled. The track testing showed that the car gave me the confident feedback I needed to push it harder through the turns etc which allowed me to improve my times a good deal. Overall I'd have to say it was the smoothness that I felt with the Frame locks installed that allowed me to drive faster....everyone knows smooth equals fast in racing!
11-01-2004, 06:02 PM
#6
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Re: Latest Korbach Frame Lock Review (BERT-O)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BERT-O »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
what group buy was this?</TD></TR></TABLE>
It was organized through a member on this board "James Q" back in September I believe, he just had his car stolen but found it thank god, not to badly stripped.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by litterbox »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Great Great review. Did you notice any increase in understeer?</TD></TR></TABLE>
No none whatsoever....the car was very solid on the turns. The car use to actually be slightly prone to lift off over steer with the larger ST swaybar on it so understeer was never a problem except for when it was stock. If the tire air pressures weren't done correctly with the back tires being slightly lower, that could have created a different handling situation. The front end was very well planted and absorbed the bumps going into the turns much better than before allowing for higher entry and exit speeds. Those same bumps use to unsettle the car before and forced me to slow down in those areas to maintain control.
what group buy was this?</TD></TR></TABLE>
It was organized through a member on this board "James Q" back in September I believe, he just had his car stolen but found it thank god, not to badly stripped.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by litterbox »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Great Great review. Did you notice any increase in understeer?</TD></TR></TABLE>
No none whatsoever....the car was very solid on the turns. The car use to actually be slightly prone to lift off over steer with the larger ST swaybar on it so understeer was never a problem except for when it was stock. If the tire air pressures weren't done correctly with the back tires being slightly lower, that could have created a different handling situation. The front end was very well planted and absorbed the bumps going into the turns much better than before allowing for higher entry and exit speeds. Those same bumps use to unsettle the car before and forced me to slow down in those areas to maintain control.
11-02-2004, 08:11 AM
#7
Junior Member
Re: Latest Korbach Frame Lock Review (00Red_SiR)
got mine awhile ago while there was a special. Installing them this friday, hopefully I get the same results and I'll write a testimonial too. 
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11-02-2004, 07:23 PM
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Re: Latest Korbach Frame Lock Review (00Red_SiR)
Originally Posted by 00Red_SiR
I took part in a recent group buy and as part of the deal, we were asked to include a brief write up about the entire experience, good or bad. Mine is as follows:
Packaging: As others have said before, these parts were by far the best packaged products I have ever received from any aftermarket company period. Some people have felt that it was unnecessary, however I felt that if you're going to spend good money for something, it's nice to see a company that not only takes pride in their packaging and presentation but it also shows that the precision made parts inside were well taken care of to prevent damage which in this case would have caused major problems with the installation of them.
Parts: Everything in the kit was complete and of high quality including the instruction manual which is very easy to follow and has excellent detail. Again, the best set of instructions I've ever received from a company before, period.
Installation: Took me about an hour and I used a cordless drill without any problems at all.
Subjective Review: To begin with my car which I've owned since new only has 41,000km's on it (approx 25,500 mi) mostly from storing it in the winters and working a lot, so it's in very good condition to say the least for being 4 years old. As you can see in my Sig, my car has all the braces (except for a lower rear), good springs and struts and sway bar. I also run Falken Azenis tires so the car handles extremely well to begin with. To be honest I couldn't imagine the car handling much better than it already does and when I installed the Frame locks, the handling did improve but it wasn't a night and day difference in my case. Overall the car felt more solid as a structure, handled bumps better as in felt smoother and they didn't unsettle the car as much as before. It definitely cornered flatter and felt more stable and sharpened the steering response as promised by the manufacturer.
Track/Race Review: In anticipation of installing the Frame Locks on my car I went to the local road race track to run some laps for a day to get a good baseline for my cars performance before vs after the locks. To give some background, I have attended a few high performance driving/race schools out at the track over the years and have participated in all forms of racing over the last 15 years, and raced motocross when I was young so I consider my skill level to be above average.
I ran out at the track for a full day and averaged ALL my (16) laps together and got 1:23 for a final number. The next time a went out a week later I ran another 16 laps and averaged 1:19 for a final number. I was quite impressed with my results on the track since I was able to record lap times faster than I had ever recorded in my car previously, out there at any time. Four seconds may not sound like a lot to some people but to any of you that race out there I'm sure you will appreciate the significance in it. I doubt anyone would be able to measure such a difference from bolting on a strut tower bar! I'm sure that an expert level driver would be able to improve on those results with the frame locks installed.
Summary: I am happy with the Korbach frame locks as a whole. I didn't notice the "night and day" difference that some people have said but I could feel a definite improvement in the way the car handled. The track testing showed that the car gave me the confident feedback I needed to push it harder through the turns etc which allowed me to improve my times a good deal. Overall I'd have to say it was the smoothness that I felt with the Frame locks installed that allowed me to drive faster....everyone knows smooth equals fast in racing!
Packaging: As others have said before, these parts were by far the best packaged products I have ever received from any aftermarket company period. Some people have felt that it was unnecessary, however I felt that if you're going to spend good money for something, it's nice to see a company that not only takes pride in their packaging and presentation but it also shows that the precision made parts inside were well taken care of to prevent damage which in this case would have caused major problems with the installation of them.
Parts: Everything in the kit was complete and of high quality including the instruction manual which is very easy to follow and has excellent detail. Again, the best set of instructions I've ever received from a company before, period.
Installation: Took me about an hour and I used a cordless drill without any problems at all.
Subjective Review: To begin with my car which I've owned since new only has 41,000km's on it (approx 25,500 mi) mostly from storing it in the winters and working a lot, so it's in very good condition to say the least for being 4 years old. As you can see in my Sig, my car has all the braces (except for a lower rear), good springs and struts and sway bar. I also run Falken Azenis tires so the car handles extremely well to begin with. To be honest I couldn't imagine the car handling much better than it already does and when I installed the Frame locks, the handling did improve but it wasn't a night and day difference in my case. Overall the car felt more solid as a structure, handled bumps better as in felt smoother and they didn't unsettle the car as much as before. It definitely cornered flatter and felt more stable and sharpened the steering response as promised by the manufacturer.
Track/Race Review: In anticipation of installing the Frame Locks on my car I went to the local road race track to run some laps for a day to get a good baseline for my cars performance before vs after the locks. To give some background, I have attended a few high performance driving/race schools out at the track over the years and have participated in all forms of racing over the last 15 years, and raced motocross when I was young so I consider my skill level to be above average.
I ran out at the track for a full day and averaged ALL my (16) laps together and got 1:23 for a final number. The next time a went out a week later I ran another 16 laps and averaged 1:19 for a final number. I was quite impressed with my results on the track since I was able to record lap times faster than I had ever recorded in my car previously, out there at any time. Four seconds may not sound like a lot to some people but to any of you that race out there I'm sure you will appreciate the significance in it. I doubt anyone would be able to measure such a difference from bolting on a strut tower bar! I'm sure that an expert level driver would be able to improve on those results with the frame locks installed.
Summary: I am happy with the Korbach frame locks as a whole. I didn't notice the "night and day" difference that some people have said but I could feel a definite improvement in the way the car handled. The track testing showed that the car gave me the confident feedback I needed to push it harder through the turns etc which allowed me to improve my times a good deal. Overall I'd have to say it was the smoothness that I felt with the Frame locks installed that allowed me to drive faster....everyone knows smooth equals fast in racing!
Thanks for the review. I think an improvement in track time from 1:23 to 1:19 is pretty darned good.
We are developing Frame Locks for the 5th generation Civic/Intergra. Anyone that wants to be a Tester, please email info@korbachperformance.com. You will get a very reduced price in exchange for answering some questions. If you are not happy, we'd give your money back. We almost had a return, but he decided to keep it. So our record stands. Not one return.
David Lawson
Korbach Performance
11-02-2004, 08:02 PM
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Re: Latest Korbach Frame Lock Review (00Red_SiR)
Very intelligent, well thought out write up. Unlike that other guy, I can say this helps bring me closer to wanting them.
11-02-2004, 08:11 PM
#12
I really don't know
Re: Latest Korbach Frame Lock Review (revolution8k)
4 second improvement on a track that has ~1:20 lap?????????????
huh.. .. .Im highly skeptic that the frame locks were the only thing that helped you gain 4 seconds.
Call me a hater, but i highly doubt it
huh.. .. .Im highly skeptic that the frame locks were the only thing that helped you gain 4 seconds.
Call me a hater, but i highly doubt it
11-02-2004, 08:18 PM
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Re: Latest Korbach Frame Lock Review (I BENCH 140)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by I BENCH 140 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">4 second improvement on a track that has ~1:20 lap?????????????
huh.. .. .Im highly skeptic that the frame locks were the only thing that helped you gain 4 seconds.
Call me a hater, but i highly doubt it
</TD></TR></TABLE>
That was his average time for 16 laps... not just one, hater.
huh.. .. .Im highly skeptic that the frame locks were the only thing that helped you gain 4 seconds.
Call me a hater, but i highly doubt it
</TD></TR></TABLE>
That was his average time for 16 laps... not just one, hater.
11-02-2004, 08:22 PM
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Re: Latest Korbach Frame Lock Review (00Red_SiR)
Good review. And I'm pretty sure the reason you didn't feel a night and day difference is because your car was already built to handle pretty nice.
These things work...I don't see where all the hate is coming from(not this thread but others across the 'net)
These things work...I don't see where all the hate is coming from(not this thread but others across the 'net)
11-02-2004, 08:26 PM
#15
I really don't know
Re: Latest Korbach Frame Lock Review (revolution8k)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by revolution8k »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
That was his average time for 16 laps... not just one, hater. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Do you know what an AVERAGE means?
hahaha think about what an average is, contemplate your remark, and then feel free to edit your statement. PM me when you do so, so i can edit this to save you from looking like an idiot
That was his average time for 16 laps... not just one, hater.
</TD></TR></TABLE>Do you know what an AVERAGE means?
hahaha think about what an average is, contemplate your remark, and then feel free to edit your statement. PM me when you do so, so i can edit this to save you from looking like an idiot
11-02-2004, 09:06 PM
#17
Unceasing Measure
Re: Latest Korbach Frame Lock Review (revolution8k)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by revolution8k »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">That was his average time for 16 laps... not just one, hater. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Dude, 4 seconds on a 1 min 20 second track is an INSANE improvement. There's no way around that fact. Whether this guy is telling 100% truth or not is one thing, but arguing over the supposed time disperity is another entirely.
</TD></TR></TABLE>Dude, 4 seconds on a 1 min 20 second track is an INSANE improvement. There's no way around that fact. Whether this guy is telling 100% truth or not is one thing, but arguing over the supposed time disperity is another entirely.
11-02-2004, 10:35 PM
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Re: Latest Korbach Frame Lock Review (Archidictus)
This thread pushed me over the edge into thinking I need them. THe only problem being my car is a daily driver and I heard (rumori) that these mess up the sensors for your airbags and also, in the event of an accident, can end up causing more damage to the car because the chassis has less flex now.
11-03-2004, 12:14 AM
#19
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Re: Latest Korbach Frame Lock Review (I BENCH 140)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by I BENCH 140 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">4 second improvement on a track that has ~1:20 lap?????????????
huh.. .. .Im highly skeptic that the frame locks were the only thing that helped you gain 4 seconds.
Call me a hater, but i highly doubt it
</TD></TR></TABLE>
I swear that I made no other changes to the car at all...not even air pressure in the tires, I did this specifically to see if there really was a difference with or without them, for me and for everyone else's information because I know people were skeptical. The track I ran on was older and certainly was quite rough in the braking/turn in areas of the turns with a little chop on the exits. Before the locks were installed, the car handled really well but really got unsettled in some of the corners forcing me to bleed off a lot of speed going through them. Once the locks were installed...the car felt much more stable and solid when going into those same corners at speed, it was as if someone reduced the bumps by 50% or something and the car just drove through the turns really confidently which gave me more confidence in pushing the car harder and allowing me to carry the vehicle speed through the turns and getting much better lap times.
I think that on another car with a different suspension setup, driver and a different track (smoother or rougher) the results could vari a great deal more. However I still feel confident that no matter what the situation is, a car will run faster lap times with them than without them.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by spectacle »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Good review. And I'm pretty sure the reason you didn't feel a night and day difference is because your car was already built to handle pretty nice.
These things work...I don't see where all the hate is coming from(not this thread but others across the 'net) </TD></TR></TABLE>
The "hate" or disbelief mostly comes from the fact that most peoples reviews up to this point have been entirely subjective. While this isn't really a bad thing, it does leave some doubt without some sort of numbers to support it (butt dyno vs real dyno). Opinions will always leave room for arguement....facts rarely do.
huh.. .. .Im highly skeptic that the frame locks were the only thing that helped you gain 4 seconds.
Call me a hater, but i highly doubt it
</TD></TR></TABLE>
I swear that I made no other changes to the car at all...not even air pressure in the tires, I did this specifically to see if there really was a difference with or without them, for me and for everyone else's information because I know people were skeptical. The track I ran on was older and certainly was quite rough in the braking/turn in areas of the turns with a little chop on the exits. Before the locks were installed, the car handled really well but really got unsettled in some of the corners forcing me to bleed off a lot of speed going through them. Once the locks were installed...the car felt much more stable and solid when going into those same corners at speed, it was as if someone reduced the bumps by 50% or something and the car just drove through the turns really confidently which gave me more confidence in pushing the car harder and allowing me to carry the vehicle speed through the turns and getting much better lap times.
I think that on another car with a different suspension setup, driver and a different track (smoother or rougher) the results could vari a great deal more. However I still feel confident that no matter what the situation is, a car will run faster lap times with them than without them.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by spectacle »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Good review. And I'm pretty sure the reason you didn't feel a night and day difference is because your car was already built to handle pretty nice.
These things work...I don't see where all the hate is coming from(not this thread but others across the 'net) </TD></TR></TABLE>
The "hate" or disbelief mostly comes from the fact that most peoples reviews up to this point have been entirely subjective. While this isn't really a bad thing, it does leave some doubt without some sort of numbers to support it (butt dyno vs real dyno). Opinions will always leave room for arguement....facts rarely do.
11-03-2004, 12:21 AM
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Re: Latest Korbach Frame Lock Review (CaptivaBlue)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CaptivaBlue »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">This thread pushed me over the edge into thinking I need them. THe only problem being my car is a daily driver and I heard (rumori) that these mess up the sensors for your airbags and also, in the event of an accident, can end up causing more damage to the car because the chassis has less flex now.</TD></TR></TABLE>
That rumor is incorrect...they were developed to make sure they didn't affect proper airbag deployment in any way and they were also designed to allow the car to crush in the manner it was supposed to from the factory. The rumor you heard would certainly apply to the homemade variety for sure.
That rumor is incorrect...they were developed to make sure they didn't affect proper airbag deployment in any way and they were also designed to allow the car to crush in the manner it was supposed to from the factory. The rumor you heard would certainly apply to the homemade variety for sure.
11-03-2004, 04:46 AM
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Re: Latest Korbach Frame Lock Review (I BENCH 140)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by I BENCH 140 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">4 second improvement on a track that has ~1:20 lap?????????????
huh.. .. .Im highly skeptic that the frame locks were the only thing that helped you gain 4 seconds.
Call me a hater, but i highly doubt it
</TD></TR></TABLE>
I realize that this is very difficult for some people to believe, but it is true. That is why we made the front cover of Honda Tuning magazine and why we are confident to offer a total risk free purchase. Don't like them, return for all your money back. We have not one return.
We are meeting with Honda Challenge in one of their 3 day race event right after Thanksgiving in Phoenix. The details are being worked out, but they assured us that they will have some racers try them out. We are going to ask them to post reviews hopefully with some numbers on their web site. As we get more info, we will let you know.
Thanks!
David Lawson
Korbach Performance
http://www.korbachperformance.com
huh.. .. .Im highly skeptic that the frame locks were the only thing that helped you gain 4 seconds.
Call me a hater, but i highly doubt it
</TD></TR></TABLE>
I realize that this is very difficult for some people to believe, but it is true. That is why we made the front cover of Honda Tuning magazine and why we are confident to offer a total risk free purchase. Don't like them, return for all your money back. We have not one return.
We are meeting with Honda Challenge in one of their 3 day race event right after Thanksgiving in Phoenix. The details are being worked out, but they assured us that they will have some racers try them out. We are going to ask them to post reviews hopefully with some numbers on their web site. As we get more info, we will let you know.
Thanks!
David Lawson
Korbach Performance
http://www.korbachperformance.com
11-03-2004, 04:47 AM
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Re: Latest Korbach Frame Lock Review (c17r15)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by c17r15 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">got mine awhile ago while there was a special. Installing them this friday, hopefully I get the same results and I'll write a testimonial too. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Yes. Please by all means, post a review. We would appreciate it.
Thanks
David Lawson
Korbach Performance
http://korbachperformance.com
</TD></TR></TABLE>Yes. Please by all means, post a review. We would appreciate it.
Thanks
David Lawson
Korbach Performance
http://korbachperformance.com
11-03-2004, 04:52 AM
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Re: Latest Korbach Frame Lock Review (CaptivaBlue)
Originally Posted by CaptivaBlue
This thread pushed me over the edge into thinking I need them. THe only problem being my car is a daily driver and I heard (rumori) that these mess up the sensors for your airbags and also, in the event of an accident, can end up causing more damage to the car because the chassis has less flex now.
Below are some thoughts on crash & air bag deployment:
Theoretically, anytime the positioning, mass or fore/aft stiffness is altered in a vehicle, the crash performance will be altered. Whether it is significant is another matter. A vehicle is designed to have a certain degree of crush in a frontal impact. This absorbs the impact of the collision and reduces the forces transferred to the occupants. However, the front structure can not be too “soft” in the front as to allow engine intrusion at higher speeds. The intrusion into the passenger compartment can also cause injuries. So it is a balanced design. The front end should be crumple, but not too much or too easily. Stiffening the fore aft structure will improve intrusion at a sacrifice of front end crush. The best performance for frontal impact comes from a design where the front end is long. This allows plenty of distance for crush and intrusion. That being stated, larger cars will perform better than compact cars. The Frame Locks are very small in comparison to the stiffness of the front frame and the suspension cradle. This is very intuitive. The front frame is made up of 2 closed section boxed in rails. The suspension cradle is a thick gauge steel structure mig welded together. In contrast, each Frame Lock weighs in at 13 ounces (not including the nuts and bolts which are attachment points) and are about 7” long. The crush distance of a vehicle is about 48” long. The Frame Locks are designed to significantly increase front lateral (side to side) stiffness not fore aft stiffness. You will note that is it not made from a square tubular structure. That is because a closed structure such as a tube will not buckle or crush as easily as an open structure. The Frame Locks is an open structure made up of a ‘U’ section which allows buckling more readily. In addition, you will note an elongated triangular cut at the corner in the middle of the top and bottom plane of the front brace. This also is there to allow for ease of buckling by allowing the top planes to separate from the side plane of the brace. Corners do not buckle as easily. Also, there is a pattern of 3 small triangles on the top and bottom plane of the Frame Lock. This is patented and is proprietary and specifically there for optimized crash performance. It is called the progressive crush impulse dampening (PCID) hole pattern.
Increasing the fore aft stiffness of the front end structure can also affect when the air bag is deployed. If it is stiffer, the acceleration pulse transferred to the accelerometer or air bag sensor will be sharper which could mean the air bag deploying at lower speeds. However, the degree of stiffness added by our small parts will result proportionally in the speed at which the air bag deploys. We think this is small and did not believe necessary to test for an after market part. However, we did have one individual with Frame Locks added to his car that had a low speed crash in his car and the air bag did not go off. Air bags are designed to deploy between 25 – 35 mph. Each car manufacturer has their own strategy as to when they want air bags to deploy. Judging by the damage to his car, I would guess his speed at impact was probably 10 – 15 mph. His hood bent up and his glass was shattered
The one area that we wanted to confirm was to be sure that the air bag would not falsely deploy when driven over a pot hole. Although the geometry of the part would clearly imply that this would not be possible, we wanted to confirm by testing a vehicle. The Frame Locks are forward of the suspension and we believed that a suspension load should not transfer the impact to the sensor (located under the radio) more readily due to the increased stiffness forward of the wheel. If the stiffness were increased rearward of the wheel, it could change the acceleration response. At any rate, we consulted with a seasoned air bag sensor development engineer and he outlined a test procedure which involved driving over a pot hole with and without the Frame Locks engaged. And to measure the fore aft acceleration at the air bag sensor location. We did this and presented the results and he concluded that it is not significant. With the Frame Locks engaged, the acceleration increased by 3 %. This could be test variation since it is difficult to control the speed precisely and the exact spot to hit on the pot hole. We noted an acceleration peak of 3.5 g’s over a time span of 4 milliseconds. According to our consultant an air bag will not deploy unless it observes a 12-15 g acceleration of 12 – 15 milliseconds. So we determined that the levels of acceleration we measured were not even remotely close to firing off an air bag.
The crash standards that OEM’s follow are very specific as mandated by the government. So they are very keen on passing on these strict criteria. Any chances of altering the dynamics of the crash is tested and validated. They do this because if they miss the standard by even a small percentage, they can not sell the cars. Real world crash scenarios are much different from the crash standards followed by the OEM’s. For example, there is no standard for on offset frontal crash where the front half corner impacts an object. This is very likely to occur if a driver crossed center of a lane and crashes the front corner of his car to another car. Also there are many other real world variations that affect crash performance such as whether the vehicle hits a Hummer, a Neon or a concrete structure. Also angle of hit weighs in as well. In addition, the crash performance going at the speed of 35 mph is very much different than a speed of 40 mph. In the end, the most important factor in insuring occupant safety is for all passengers to wear seat belts so that they do not impact the interior (IP or steering wheel) of the car. Wearing seat belts is the best measure to assure safety.
David Lawson
Korbach Performance
http://www.korbachperformance.com
11-03-2004, 12:52 PM
#25
Honda-Tech Member
Re: Latest Korbach Frame Lock Review (CaptivaBlue)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CaptivaBlue »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">This thread pushed me over the edge into thinking I need them. THe only problem being my car is a daily driver and I heard (rumori) that these mess up the sensors for your airbags and also, in the event of an accident, can end up causing more damage to the car because the chassis has less flex now.</TD></TR></TABLE>
This makes absolutely no sense.
I've said it before, but the EK results will probably not translate to the EG/DC platform. These cars are much more solid around this area and there isn't going to be as much flex to "fix".
This makes absolutely no sense.
I've said it before, but the EK results will probably not translate to the EG/DC platform. These cars are much more solid around this area and there isn't going to be as much flex to "fix".