eHoward

There's been a good amount of interest in carbon fiber lately so I thought I'd post some pics of one of the things I've been working on:


Put the carbon fiber in the mold.


Mix the resin.


Protection


More protection

sorry I didn't take any shots of the vacuum bagging.


Out of the mold.


Close up of the twill.


during finishing

<U>Update 1/3/05:</U> We are shipping Stater kits for anyone to be able to do this kind of stuff themself: http://www.stringandglue.com/starterKit/

Anyone can IM me if they would like to purchase small amounts (or large) of carbon fiber or other supplies at a low price.


Howard
S&G engineering



Modified by eHoward at 3:59 PM 1/3/2005

RC000E

I have been working with carbon for about a year and half so far. I have done various flat panels for dash setups and what not. My end product is very nice and is high gloss. The only problem I experience are small air bubbles which I can't manage to squeegie out. I assume these air bubbles are in the resin themselves and trap themselves inbetween the weave, thats why squeegie won't remove them. I see you mention vacuum bagging in the kit. Will this remove this problem altogether? I see in the pic that the hood lacks luster. Was this a mold issue or the type of resin you use? I assume you do wet layup then use some type of roller to get the air out for the mostpart. Does the vacuum take care of the rest as far as air bubbles go? I would be interested if this could allow me to do larger scale parts. I love laying this stuff but I am kind of limited to flat panels with the system I use. I have alot of mockups done in foam though of different pieces I would like to make so I am definitely interested. The pics of some of my pieces are at the bottom of this page http://www.leveldracing.com/su....html if you want to check it out...or anyone else reading this post. The camera wasn't the greatest so it doesn't do it any justice, the **** looks real good in person though.

eHoward

Vacuum bagging can eliminate the majority of bubbles if you do it right. On a pure cosmetic part, it may not be the solution though.

I apply the resin with a brush. I personally don't use a squeegie or roller, but I know of others that swear by them.

Vacuum bagging will not be included with the kit. It will be a low cost kit. Approximately $100 with everything one would need to do a small part. I could see doing a vacuum add-on kit in the future at around the $300 price point. Right now, I'd like to get the low cost kit to market. We'd be happy to sell you some vacuum supplies in the meantime though. I could put together a quote for you if you're interested.

About the part. I wouldn't say it lacks luster. I will say it is not as shiny as a resin rich part. It will look fantastic once clear-coated. One of the drawbacks of a lower resin content from vacuum bagging is that the parts will not be as shiny out of the mold. It will look fantastic once clear-coated. One of the pros of vacuum bagging is that the parts will be light weight.

Good luck with your projects.


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RC000E &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I have been working with carbon for about a year and half so far. I have done various flat panels for dash setups and what not. My end product is very nice and is high gloss. The only problem I experience are small air bubbles which I can't manage to squeegie out. I assume these air bubbles are in the resin themselves and trap themselves inbetween the weave, thats why squeegie won't remove them. I see you mention vacuum bagging in the kit. Will this remove this problem altogether? I see in the pic that the hood lacks luster. Was this a mold issue or the type of resin you use? I assume you do wet layup then use some type of roller to get the air out for the mostpart. Does the vacuum take care of the rest as far as air bubbles go? I would be interested if this could allow me to do larger scale parts. I love laying this stuff but I am kind of limited to flat panels with the system I use. I have alot of mockups done in foam though of different pieces I would like to make so I am definitely interested. The pics of some of my pieces are at the bottom of this page http://www.leveldracing.com/su....html if you want to check it out...or anyone else reading this post. The camera wasn't the greatest so it doesn't do it any justice, the **** looks real good in person though. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Magnaflow

Good looking work EHoward! Molds and Vaccum bagging, I am jealous. One day (hopefully soon I will begin experimenting with Vaccum bagging.

travanx

Ok so you lay the cloth over your mold. Then you brush the resin over the cloth and wait for it to dry? Is that all there is to it? What do you do once that dries? Does the resin soak through to the other side and then you sand that? Then clear coat from there? I have done a fiberglass enclosure in my trunk and have been trying to figure out the difference of doing that compared to a simple piece in CF.

eHoward

That is about it. Once it dries, you can release the part. We have a special teflon/wax paste hybrid we will include with the kit. It makes releasing simple, fun and easy. You will need to apply it to your mold before placing the carbon in it.

No need for sanding. Just throw some clear on it and you're set. If the part isn't going to be in the sun(exposed to UV), you don't need to clear.

We are working on some carbon fiber enclosures too. We have one prototype done for a 10 inch and it sounds AWESOME! Don't listen to the people that say you will get odd resonations with carbon. Maybe I'll post some pics of that once we get some paint on it.

The jump to carbon from glass is simple.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by travanx &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Ok so you lay the cloth over your mold. Then you brush the resin over the cloth and wait for it to dry? Is that all there is to it? What do you do once that dries? Does the resin soak through to the other side and then you sand that? Then clear coat from there? I have done a fiberglass enclosure in my trunk and have been trying to figure out the difference of doing that compared to a simple piece in CF.</TD></TR></TABLE>

SactownXSi

This looks good I look forward to this product.

-Nick

granteeton

i'd be all over one of those kits as soon as it becomes available

nonsense

There's a pretty cool writeup about CF in the latest Grassroots Motorsport Magazine too . . . .

How many layers of CF did you use on that hood (it's a hood right?)? Did you "stagger" the layers 45 degrees for extra strength?

greentrbo95gst

are you guys gonna sell ready to install products?

eHoward

It's a boot(rear hood).

Thanks, I will have to pick up that issue of Grassroots. I let my subscription lapse. DOH!

I actually did work on a civic carbon hood that appeared in grassroots a little while ago:


getting the mold freed from the buck.


a vac bag shot.


test fit.

Some of the stuff gets 45s. Others Just get 0s and 90s. A lot of time, running half 45s takes a lot more material. The fiero boots have one layer at 45 out of 4 total layers of carbon. We also use core material whenever possible to build strength.


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nonsense &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">There's a pretty cool writeup about CF in the latest Grassroots Motorsport Magazine too . . . .

How many layers of CF did you use on that hood (it's a hood right?)? Did you "stagger" the layers 45 degrees for extra strength? </TD></TR></TABLE>

eHoward

The majority of work we are doing today is services.

We are working on bringing some ready to install products to market(such as the subwoofer boxes). Right now, my main focus is shipping this DIY kit.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by greentrbo95gst &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">are you guys gonna sell ready to install products?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Nameless RB26

Right on.. I've been doing alot of CF stuff with my friend lately for his cooper S. This is the decklid we did for his rear hatch. Just a quick overlay though, not replacement piece. He didn't want to do that for some reason. Next to it is a piece I was molding for the interior on my car..



Doesn't look to excellent, but he wetsanded it and rebuffed it so all the imperfections from the brushed resin came out.

I'll be doing some CF fenders soon.. just need to pick up more mold stuff.

SYD

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by granteeton &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i'd be all over one of those kits as soon as it becomes available</TD></TR></TABLE>

that makes 2 of us

RICE POLICE SIP

iTrader: (2)

pretty tight yo!

Terrabomb

looks really good. What are the heat characteristics of carbon fiber? I'd consider making an intake for the turbo.

Quad-Damag

how much would a kit like this run?

Proper

That is sweet! What do you use to make the mold??? I'm sure you use the origional piece fot the shape but what material do you mold it with?

eHoward

Carbon fiber itself can take a lot of heat. Think about F1 brake rotors. The matrix or resin system is where the weak link is. The type of resin that we are including in the starter kit, I would not recommend using for a turbo. There are other systems out there that will work better, but are more costly. 2X the price. One resin we use has a heat distortion temp of 225F(that was actually what we used for the grassroots car). If you need higher then that, you might as well use prepreg.


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Terrabomb &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">looks really good. What are the heat characteristics of carbon fiber? I'd consider making an intake for the turbo.</TD></TR></TABLE>

eHoward

I am trying to put a starter kit together for $100 + shipping. That would include everything to get started on some small projects except the respirator.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Quad-Damge &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">how much would a kit like this run?</TD></TR></TABLE>

eHoward

The fiero mold at the top is fiberglass. The civic mold near the bottom was carbon fiber with nomex honeycomb. They both work about the same except the civic one is lighter and stronger.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Proper &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">That is sweet! What do you use to make the mold??? I'm sure you use the origional piece fot the shape but what material do you mold it with?</TD></TR></TABLE>

ThePunk

Hint..Hint...

http://www.tapplastics.com

AccidentproWn

how does the vaccum bagging work? i want more shots of that

hondadesign

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by eHoward &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Vacuum bagging can eliminate the majority of bubbles if you do it right. On a pure cosmetic part, it may not be the solution though.

I apply the resin with a brush. I personally don't use a squeegie or roller, but I know of others that swear by them.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
First let me say your project looks great and thanks for posting your what you have done.
I found that using a chip brush with the bristles cut down about a third of the way help alot in getting all those bubbles out. You gotta gently pound/pop those bubbles carefully without distorting your beautifully laid out layup. Also this only works best by doing it to the face sheet and then bagging that on its own to assure perfect debulking and tool/part consolidation. I've worked on military, indy/formula, aerospace, concept /show car, industrial design and everybody does it a little different according to how much money and what they are trying to acheive.

.nate

Interesting... your kit also includes whats needed for vaccum bagging?

I'm also interested in how this process works.