Sparks from brakes? Cool!!!! (bedding in Cobalt Spec VR pads)
10-10-2004, 08:07 PM
#1
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Sparks from brakes? Cool!!!! (bedding in Cobalt Spec VR pads)
Just flushed the brake system (Motul 600 RBF), ripped out the front brake rotor shields, and bedded in my Cobalt Spec VR front pads. Neat-o, they make sparks when they get warm!!! 
That's a first for me.
Anyhow, anyone even THINKING about running Cobalt Spec VR pads on the street, DON'T DO IT! They suck serious *** when cold. Even when they were hot, they only felt about like stock cold pads (which were pretty good IMO). The Carbotech XP9's on the other hand were fine on the street, I really liked them and would probably run them again, someday, depending on how the Cobalt pads stand up.
Hopefully these things last more than a single HPDE... those poor Carbotech XP9's have less than 1/2 of the pad left on the inside ones, and the material that IS left doesn't look very happy to be there (cheese grater effect).
Oh well, looking at Mid-Ohio it doesn't LOOK hard on brakes... but Road America wasn't supposed to be that hard either.
-Chris
That's a first for me.Anyhow, anyone even THINKING about running Cobalt Spec VR pads on the street, DON'T DO IT! They suck serious *** when cold. Even when they were hot, they only felt about like stock cold pads (which were pretty good IMO). The Carbotech XP9's on the other hand were fine on the street, I really liked them and would probably run them again, someday, depending on how the Cobalt pads stand up.
Hopefully these things last more than a single HPDE... those poor Carbotech XP9's have less than 1/2 of the pad left on the inside ones, and the material that IS left doesn't look very happy to be there (cheese grater effect).
Oh well, looking at Mid-Ohio it doesn't LOOK hard on brakes... but Road America wasn't supposed to be that hard either.
-Chris
10-10-2004, 08:25 PM
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Re: Sparks from brakes? Cool!!!! (ccfries)
its not too hard on the brakes except for one or two spots. I hope I get to see sparks flying out of your wheels on track 
That'd be awesome. 
That'd be awesome.
10-10-2004, 08:29 PM
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Re: Sparks from brakes? Cool!!!! (Erik95LS)
You going to both weekends Erik?
< Has a set of VRs sitting in his garage but no vacation time left to go to the track
Come on 2005!
< Has a set of VRs sitting in his garage but no vacation time left to go to the track
Come on 2005!
10-10-2004, 08:33 PM
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Re: Sparks from brakes? Cool!!!! (Erik95LS)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Erik95LS »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">its not too hard on the brakes except for one or two spots. I hope I get to see sparks flying out of your wheels on track That'd be awesome. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Yeah, totally. Glad to hear Mid-Ohio is not too hard on brakes. It looks like the long windy parts will give the brakes plenty of time to cool.
-Chris
That'd be awesome. </TD></TR></TABLE> Yeah, totally. Glad to hear Mid-Ohio is not too hard on brakes. It looks like the long windy parts will give the brakes plenty of time to cool. -Chris
10-10-2004, 08:46 PM
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Wierd. I had the exact opposite opinion/experience with the VR's vs. XP9's.
I thought the VR's felt great even cold on the ITR. The car has really great brake feel.
...but the XP9's are on my Supra, so...
I thought the VR's felt great even cold on the ITR. The car has really great brake feel.
...but the XP9's are on my Supra, so...
10-10-2004, 08:58 PM
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Re: Sparks from brakes? Cool!!!! (ccfries)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ccfries »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Yeah, totally. Glad to hear Mid-Ohio is not too hard on brakes. It looks like the long windy parts will give the brakes plenty of time to cool.
-Chris
</TD></TR></TABLE>
It really just depends on how you drive. The main places where you are really hard on them is braking off of the back straight (120+ to 50-60) and coming into the carousel. I cant' wait
Chris, the PCA school was full, so I'm just doing this one instead. Wanna come up and crew for us?
Yeah, totally. Glad to hear Mid-Ohio is not too hard on brakes. It looks like the long windy parts will give the brakes plenty of time to cool. -Chris
</TD></TR></TABLE>
It really just depends on how you drive. The main places where you are really hard on them is braking off of the back straight (120+ to 50-60) and coming into the carousel. I cant' wait
Chris, the PCA school was full, so I'm just doing this one instead. Wanna come up and crew for us?
10-10-2004, 09:02 PM
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Re: Sparks from brakes? Cool!!!! (Erik95LS)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Erik95LS »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
It really just depends on how you drive. The main places where you are really hard on them is braking off of the back straight (120+ to 50-60) and coming into the carousel. I cant' wait
</TD></TR></TABLE>
120+ in an N/A ITR? Ooh, that's gonna be fast....
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Erik95LS »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Chris, the PCA school was full, so I'm just doing this one instead. Wanna come up and crew for us? </TD></TR></TABLE>
Yeah, bring stopwatches, cameras and brakes!
It really just depends on how you drive. The main places where you are really hard on them is braking off of the back straight (120+ to 50-60) and coming into the carousel. I cant' wait
</TD></TR></TABLE>
120+ in an N/A ITR?
Ooh, that's gonna be fast....<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Erik95LS »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Chris, the PCA school was full, so I'm just doing this one instead. Wanna come up and crew for us?
</TD></TR></TABLE>Yeah, bring stopwatches, cameras and brakes!
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10-10-2004, 09:04 PM
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Re: Sparks from brakes? Cool!!!! (ccfries)
You know it sucks coming to the track and not running but MidOhio isn't too far and I wouldn't mind taking some pixors of you foos.
Maybe
Maybe
10-10-2004, 09:04 PM
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Re: Sparks from brakes? Cool!!!! (ccfries)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ccfries »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
120+ in an N/A ITR? Ooh, that's gonna be fast....
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yeah its a reeeeeally long straight. I was able to get 110-120 or so pretty consistantly with b18b power so I imagine it'll be quite a bit faster now.
aqain, I cant' wait
Chris you should definatly come man.
120+ in an N/A ITR?
Ooh, that's gonna be fast....</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yeah its a reeeeeally long straight. I was able to get 110-120 or so pretty consistantly with b18b power so I imagine it'll be quite a bit faster now.
aqain, I cant' wait
Chris you should definatly come man.
10-11-2004, 07:31 AM
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Re: Sparks from brakes? Cool!!!! (Erik95LS)
My VRs actually work well around town. They have fine cold bite, just not good cold pedal feel. They stop my car just fine.
<- has had the VR's on the R for a month now.
<- has had the VR's on the R for a month now.
10-11-2004, 09:48 AM
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Re: Sparks from brakes? Cool!!!! (Chris N)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Chris N »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">My VRs actually work well around town. They have fine cold bite, just not good cold pedal feel. They stop my car just fine.
<- has had the VR's on the R for a month now.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yeah, I'm starting to agree. After breaking them in and letting them cool (overnight) they're a lot better. But right, they do bite a bit. They just felt really weak before I broke them in, and that surprised me.
-Chris
[Edit, there are too many Chris's in this thread... but Chris N.- You should come out to Mid-Ohio if you haven't sold your caR yet!)
<- has had the VR's on the R for a month now.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yeah, I'm starting to agree. After breaking them in and letting them cool (overnight) they're a lot better. But right, they do bite a bit. They just felt really weak before I broke them in, and that surprised me.
-Chris
[Edit, there are too many Chris's in this thread... but Chris N.- You should come out to Mid-Ohio if you haven't sold your caR yet!)
10-11-2004, 10:02 AM
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Re: Sparks from brakes? Cool!!!! (ccfries)
Sparks from the pads? WOW, must be metal on metal contact.
Does the Motul 600 RBF fluid need flushing more regularly?
Does the Motul 600 RBF fluid need flushing more regularly?
10-11-2004, 11:24 AM
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Re: Sparks from brakes? Cool!!!! (DutchITR1689)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DutchITR1689 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Sparks from the pads? WOW, must be metal on metal contact.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Wrong. Buy the european Textar pads, and you will see this :
I like braking more than acceleration
These pics are with my previous Prelude VTEC.
Wrong. Buy the european Textar pads, and you will see this
:I like braking more than acceleration
These pics are with my previous Prelude VTEC.
10-11-2004, 11:29 AM
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Re: Sparks from brakes? Cool!!!! (ccfries)
The sparks is from whatever compound was left on the rotor before.... I dont like mixing pad compounds on the same rotor 
10-11-2004, 11:58 AM
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Re: Sparks from brakes? Cool!!!! (.RJ)
i dont think u'll have to worry about changing your pads after 1 event. your rotors on the other hand might get eaten alive.
i've got cobalt spec B's which are a level below the VR's and they look good as new after 3 months but my stock rotors are getting carved into pretty deep (ruffly the with of a dime on each side ).
i've got cobalt spec B's which are a level below the VR's and they look good as new after 3 months but my stock rotors are getting carved into pretty deep (ruffly the with of a dime on each side
).
10-11-2004, 12:06 PM
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Re: Sparks from brakes? Cool!!!! (.RJ)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The sparks is from whatever compound was left on the rotor before.... I dont like mixing pad compounds on the same rotor </TD></TR></TABLE>
These are brand-spanking-new rotors and pads. Duralast/Autozone. I could see sparks fly past my driver/pass side window when lifting off of the brakes after a hard brake (at night, bedding in.)
I don't "like" mixing pad compounds on a rotor, but have done it anyway in the past, with limited problems. I just warped another autozone rotor that went from Raybestos to something else (OEM?) to something else, straight to a hot session on a track with the XP9's. They were my emergency rotors that I ended up using since the stupid drilled rotors cracked.
I THINK I warped the rotor when hitting a curb hard at the inside of a fast apex, on the 2nd session with that combination. The next time I hit the brakes, they shudderd HARD and got slightly better.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DutchITR1689 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Does the Motul 600 RBF fluid need flushing more regularly?</TD></TR></TABLE>
It depends on what you need I guess. They have a higher wet and dry boiling point than normal DOT4 fluid. But it's also more hygroscopic, so it will absorb water much faster. If you bleed after every HPDE (or whenever you get any boiling) and flush it once a year, it's probably good. I have no way to guess how fast it really absorbs moisture, without boiling it and watching with a thermometer.
-Chris
</TD></TR></TABLE>These are brand-spanking-new rotors and pads. Duralast/Autozone. I could see sparks fly past my driver/pass side window when lifting off of the brakes after a hard brake (at night, bedding in.)
I don't "like" mixing pad compounds on a rotor, but have done it anyway in the past, with limited problems. I just warped another autozone rotor that went from Raybestos to something else (OEM?) to something else, straight to a hot session on a track with the XP9's. They were my emergency rotors that I ended up using since the stupid drilled rotors cracked.
I THINK I warped the rotor when hitting a curb hard at the inside of a fast apex, on the 2nd session with that combination. The next time I hit the brakes, they shudderd HARD and got slightly better.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DutchITR1689 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Does the Motul 600 RBF fluid need flushing more regularly?</TD></TR></TABLE>
It depends on what you need I guess. They have a higher wet and dry boiling point than normal DOT4 fluid. But it's also more hygroscopic, so it will absorb water much faster. If you bleed after every HPDE (or whenever you get any boiling) and flush it once a year, it's probably good. I have no way to guess how fast it really absorbs moisture, without boiling it and watching with a thermometer.
-Chris
10-11-2004, 12:09 PM
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Re: Sparks from brakes? Cool!!!! (ccfries)
I went over 2,000 track miles before I flushed out my Motul 600 brake fluid... it performed fine, but looking pretty dark.
"more" hygroscopic or not, I wouldnt worry about it.
"more" hygroscopic or not, I wouldnt worry about it.
10-11-2004, 12:26 PM
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Re: Sparks from brakes? Cool!!!! (.RJ)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I went over 2,000 track miles before I flushed out my Motul 600 brake fluid... it performed fine, but looking pretty dark.
"more" hygroscopic or not, I wouldnt worry about it.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yeah, mine looks like, umm, ginger ale that was used as an ashtray. At least the first bit that comes out from the caliper.
Caution, <U>opinion </U>and <U>NOT FACTS </U>follow:
What period of time were those 2000 miles over? One season? about 10 track days I guess? If you spread those miles over 3 years, I'd say that you shoulda flushed it more often, because the fluid will pick up water over that time. One season is probably fine.
But yeah, my comment was regarding TIME between flushing rather than miles/usage... you could read "should I flush it more often" as both.
-Chris
"more" hygroscopic or not, I wouldnt worry about it.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yeah, mine looks like, umm, ginger ale that was used as an ashtray. At least the first bit that comes out from the caliper.
Caution, <U>opinion </U>and <U>NOT FACTS </U>follow:
What period of time were those 2000 miles over? One season? about 10 track days I guess? If you spread those miles over 3 years, I'd say that you shoulda flushed it more often, because the fluid will pick up water over that time. One season is probably fine.
But yeah, my comment was regarding TIME between flushing rather than miles/usage... you could read "should I flush it more often" as both.
-Chris
10-11-2004, 12:29 PM
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Re: Sparks from brakes? Cool!!!! (ccfries)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ccfries »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What period of time were those 2000 miles over? One season? about 10 track days I guess? </TD></TR></TABLE>
Yeah, first half of this year. In the past I've used ATE and have to bleed it every weekend or every other weekend.
Yeah, first half of this year. In the past I've used ATE and have to bleed it every weekend or every other weekend.
10-11-2004, 01:22 PM
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Re: Sparks from brakes? Cool!!!! (DutchITR1689)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DutchITR1689 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">How about a good DOT 5.1 brake fluid? Isn't that good enough for the track?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Isnt 5.1 the silicon based stuff? If it is, dont use it.
Isnt 5.1 the silicon based stuff? If it is, dont use it.
10-11-2004, 01:26 PM
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Re: Sparks from brakes? Cool!!!! (.RJ)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Isnt 5.1 the silicon based stuff? If it is, dont use it.</TD></TR></TABLE>
No, that's DOT 5.
DOT 5.1 has the specs of DOT 5 but is compatible with DOT 3 and 4.
Dot 5.1 brake fluid
LONG LIFE 100% synthetic fluid for hydraulic actuated-brake and clutch systems.
DOT 5.1 NON-SILICONE BASE.
Fluidity specially designed for anti-locking brake systems.
LONG LIFE FORMULA : the high wet boiling point (185°c/365°F), superior to DOT 4 and DOT 3 fluids enables to use this product longer.
SPECIALLY DESIGNED TO ANTI-LOCKING BRAKE SYSTEM (ABS) : its viscosity (820 centipoises at -40°c / -40°F) lower than DOT 4 and DOT 3 brake fluids, allows MOTUL BRAKE FLUID DOT 5.1 an easier fluid circulation in micro-valves of anti-locking systems.
PERFECTLY NEUTRAL WITH SEALS USED IN BRAKING SYSTEMS. ANTI-CORROSION.
STANDARDS : FMVSS 116 DOT 5.1 NON SILICONE BASE & DOT 4 & DOT 3
SAE J 1703
Isnt 5.1 the silicon based stuff? If it is, dont use it.</TD></TR></TABLE>
No, that's DOT 5.
DOT 5.1 has the specs of DOT 5 but is compatible with DOT 3 and 4.
Dot 5.1 brake fluid
LONG LIFE 100% synthetic fluid for hydraulic actuated-brake and clutch systems.
DOT 5.1 NON-SILICONE BASE.
Fluidity specially designed for anti-locking brake systems.
LONG LIFE FORMULA : the high wet boiling point (185°c/365°F), superior to DOT 4 and DOT 3 fluids enables to use this product longer.
SPECIALLY DESIGNED TO ANTI-LOCKING BRAKE SYSTEM (ABS) : its viscosity (820 centipoises at -40°c / -40°F) lower than DOT 4 and DOT 3 brake fluids, allows MOTUL BRAKE FLUID DOT 5.1 an easier fluid circulation in micro-valves of anti-locking systems.
PERFECTLY NEUTRAL WITH SEALS USED IN BRAKING SYSTEMS. ANTI-CORROSION.
STANDARDS : FMVSS 116 DOT 5.1 NON SILICONE BASE & DOT 4 & DOT 3
SAE J 1703
10-11-2004, 02:18 PM
#25
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Re: Sparks from brakes? Cool!!!! (DutchITR1689)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DutchITR1689 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
No, that's DOT 5.
DOT 5.1 has the specs of DOT 5 but is compatible with DOT 3 and 4.
Dot 5.1 brake fluid
LONG LIFE 100% synthetic fluid for hydraulic actuated-brake and clutch systems.
DOT 5.1 NON-SILICONE BASE.
Fluidity specially designed for anti-locking brake systems.
LONG LIFE FORMULA : the high wet boiling point (185°c/365°F), superior to DOT 4 and DOT 3 fluids enables to use this product longer.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
I've considered it too... but the RBF has better wet boiling point anyway. I don't like their description, they equate wet boiling point with "efficient in the rain"!!!!!
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Motul Website »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
RBF-600:
EXTREME THERMAL RESISTANCE AND STABILITY: the elevated boiling point of RBF 600 FACTORY LINE (312°c / 593°F) enables effective braking even under the extreme conditions of competition.
VERY EFFICIENT WHEN RAINY: the very high wet boiling point (216°c / 420°F), is superior to conventional brake fluids provides a particularly efficient braking system in rain and put back the apparition of vapor lock.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
No, that's DOT 5.
DOT 5.1 has the specs of DOT 5 but is compatible with DOT 3 and 4.
Dot 5.1 brake fluid
LONG LIFE 100% synthetic fluid for hydraulic actuated-brake and clutch systems.
DOT 5.1 NON-SILICONE BASE.
Fluidity specially designed for anti-locking brake systems.
LONG LIFE FORMULA : the high wet boiling point (185°c/365°F), superior to DOT 4 and DOT 3 fluids enables to use this product longer.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
I've considered it too... but the RBF has better wet boiling point anyway. I don't like their description, they equate wet boiling point with "efficient in the rain"!!!!!
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Motul Website »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
RBF-600:
EXTREME THERMAL RESISTANCE AND STABILITY: the elevated boiling point of RBF 600 FACTORY LINE (312°c / 593°F) enables effective braking even under the extreme conditions of competition.
VERY EFFICIENT WHEN RAINY: the very high wet boiling point (216°c / 420°F), is superior to conventional brake fluids provides a particularly efficient braking system in rain and put back the apparition of vapor lock.
</TD></TR></TABLE>