bad93ex

I am most definitely purchasing a b18 engine for my car and have it in by June. But its only October and I still got a long time ahead of me. I lost a lot of sleep over this question last night. If I get a good return on my taxes I should be able to afford a type-r. But should I go for the gsr swap and just put $2000 into it right away? Type-r mojo or GS-r?

94si94cx

If you have that kind of time frame to save, go for the Type-R. http://www.hondamotorsonline.com always has them for good prices. By your NAME i am assuming you are putting it in a coupe? Just wondering, not flaming. Type-R of course has more horsepower, limited slip, and a different final drive. Go for it

shawnhayes

I have a B18C1, and it's the cheap or "buying over time" way to do it. If you have the cash, go for the B18C5 right off to bat. There will be less you'll have to do later.

Shawn

Black_eh2

i would go for the type-r if you have the money and want a daily driven with no internal work. but if u plan to do alot to the engine.. go for the gsr.

type-r = less milage, good fast daily driven, no internal work if that's your plan

gsr= if u plan on internal work , into drag

B18C5-EH2

I'm going to sit and wait to see what all is said before I reply.



I have owned both in the same car, so I think I've got a good idea.

Ginuwin3112

I think you could get the GSR and even turbo it for the price of a type R?

Archidictus

probably not. if it were me, i'd get a b18c1 with a limited slip tranny and put the $1500 you'll save into a wicked suspension suspension setup and i/h/e.

the b18c5 is a wicked engine right out of the box, though. most of us tuners don't really have the cash to drop 5k on the engine and another $1500 on suspension and i/h/e.

since tom got his *** beat by an h22 hatch he'll tell you to go prelude or go home

GetawayInMoscow

It depends, are you going all motor? If so B18C5 hands down, you START with better EVERYTHING. The LSD would help too...

GetawayInMoscow

Another thing I forgot to add, even if you take a B18C1 and build it up with the money you save, and lets say you make it as fast as a stock type r, the type r engine is still stock, meaning it has more potential and is still reliable because its all OEM Honda.

N1NjA TuRtLE

can't u just get a Geezer and then build it up with even better internals to kill the type-R? like toda or jun?

-Darren-

here is something i got from B18C5-EH2

You cannot build a GS-R swap to be as good as a Type R swap with the
marginal money difference in swaps.

http://www.hondamotorsonline.com

They sell GS-R for $3,300

They sell Type R for $4,800

So you have a $1,500 difference. There's no way you can
duplicate a
Type R swap starting with only a GS-R swap and $1,500. The tranny is
probably the biggest thing. ITR trannies go for $1,200 used, and you
might
be able to sell off the GS-R tranny for like $700 or so, but there's
too
much more to duplicate.

Cams
Valvetrain
Intake manifold
ECU program
Moly-coated pistons with higher CR

Plus you cannot beat Honda untouched motors. Build a GS-R motor and
run the
risk of having it smoke - ITR won't if it's not been tampered with.

good info


[Modified by star&buc, 9:47 PM 10/20/2002]


[Modified by star&buc, 9:48 PM 10/20/2002]

Archidictus

while you are correct in that there are many differences between the R and regular b18c engines, i beg to differ that you cannot achieve R-Type performance while staying within the $1500 excess (in an EH2 anyhow).

LSD Tranny $300 (addition)
12.5:1 CR JE pistons $400
AV-R header $450
Z10 radius arms $350

I'm pretty darn sure a civic with that setup will run a better quarter than a B18C5 hatch. true, build quality might come into play, but I'd still put money on the built b18

edit: albeit, Tom does know more about b18c5 hatches than I do, so it's possibly that I could still be wrong


[Modified by Archidictus, 10:03 PM 10/20/2002]

Archidictus

yeah, I know...I kinda feel guilty for getting into it again

R_yd

<---------------------

Mike D

for the money you cannot duplicate the performance of a type r swap vs gsr.

With that extra $1500(probably less), you could invest in a good I/H/E ecu set-up that could probably make the same power as a type r(~165whp, since this is what the MAJORITY puts down stock i would say) give or take.

However you are still minus the LSD and more effective gearing.

It really boils down to what your future plans are for the engine. Both have good potential, but type r should outperform the C1 out of the box


Mike D

whitemike1644

best setup to go with between the GSR and a LS for turbo?

i know B20 is good but no one around here wants to do it and i have no clue what the price is.

B18C5-EH2

Oh cool so if you've got that number to the shop that installs all of that for FREE with a 100% guarantee that the motor won't smoke then by all means please post it!



Even if your parts list was complete and correct, it still doesn't ad up to a swap equal to an ITR swap.

Last I checked a GS-R tranny was worth about $700 or so, while used ITR trannies go for $1,200.

What's with the 12.5:1 CR? That **** would be a pretty costly mod after you figure in the labor and machine work, right?

I'd also want to know how a stock GS-R ECU would work with 12.5:1 CR.

I'm still going to let others chime in before I go apeshit with my type-up of the differences.

Oh and PLEASE keep this strictly to only B18C1 vs. B18C5 - stop adding bullshit like boosted LS and B20 motors.

Archidictus

I feel violated already , however...

installed LSD is a $300 addition to a package price from more than one honda-motor site...that's where I got that from.

the pistons can be put in by yourself if you know what you're doing...although it's safer to drop $400 on having a shop throw it all together and balancing the whole rotating assembly. yes, that is over the $1500 limit, but bear with me

the header makes insane gains and the radius arms, coupled with the LSD, would eliminate 90% of that pesky wheelhop that we've all experienced at the strip.

now i'm not saying that the engine would be as reliable as the stock honda b18c5, nor am i, in any way, speaking against this marvelous engine. i am, however, making the statement that i would put money on a vehicle so equipped over a type-r motor-equipped hybrid of the same make.

oh, by the way Tom. if you know something b19civichb and I don't know about the ECU and piston compatability, please drop us a line. it seems to work fine: no detonation, great response...but we've yet to get her tuned to see how out of whack we are.

All of this is in good fun anyhow...at least I hope. I know the unholy fury of our moderator will, soon I fear, immolate me beyond recognition. :sigh: The dangers of speaking against our guardian

N1NjA TuRtLE

serio?

acydphryck

type R motor = over rated and waaaaay over priced (get the tranny though)
GSR motor = cheap and more easy to find than a c5...good for all motor setups and even boost...

redline201

b18c5 because with I/H/E and slicks you can run low 13s (in a gutted hatch a least )
and still have stock honda reliability

96 SOHC VTEC

I look at it this way. Which motor is going to be less hassle? A GSR motor with lots of mods to perform like a R motor? Or a near stock R motor that is competely reliable?

TruePlayaz114

why don't you just go with a jspec b18c. i have it and i love it. It's got 180 hp, 10:6:1 compression and i've got LSD. If i'm not mistaken the jspec b18c is very similar to the USDM ITR. Same compression, and same tranny (i think). The only difference is the head. The ITR has a better flowing head and better cams. And I got my motor with everything for 3600. I could be wrong about some of this so correct me if i'm wrong.

madhatch

a local guy did he b20 here and I runs low 10's in the 8th in a hatch, i have seen a GSR sedan put down a 9.6 with a gutted cat. Why not supercharge a gsr and get a limited slip for the tranny? A little more money but also a lot more power.

GripFactoR

sometimes u get some abnormally fast GSR motors that put down some comparable numbers to a ITR hp figure...granted, 9 outta 10 motors wont be like this.
ITR is a great motor. GSR is a great motor. i feel there is a noticeable difference in the powerband on each motor. For me, i do daily suburban driving where low to midrange hp/tq is best utilized. I never hesitiate to open up my gsr on highways though , and i am always impressed. For me its a toss up...depends on your future plans, current budget, type of driving, etc.
you'll never really get the idea unless u drive both. I drove both a eg/gsr and a eg/itr hybrid before and decided to go with the gsr. eg/itr felt a tad bit faster, but not enough to justify the 1500 extra.