amalby

i am currently rebuilding my F22 and it is forged every thing. I guess I should say fully built. I have the pistons and rods in. main caps on, and I checked all of my clearances and they are correct. I turned the crank over a couple of times and noticed that the pistons come out of the block ever so slightly. just wondering if its correct

Andrew

Hawkze_2.3

What rods and pistons are you using? You could clay the engine to see what your clearances are or even look at the bottom of the head and see how much room you have.

amalby

running wisco 87mm piston with IB spec rods.

Hawkze_2.3

I don't think they are supposed to come out of the deck at all, but I could be wrong. Is there any room on the bottom of the head?

You might also check cb7tuner.com or look in the FAQs if no one else knows.

waynecoSI

im with hawkze_2.3 Clay it to make sure you wont have piston/valve clearance issues. It would be a good idea

98vtec

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by amalby &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">running wisco 87mm piston with IB spec rods.</TD></TR></TABLE>

ok that doesnt tell anyone anything about how long the rods are, the compression height of the pistons, or the dome volume.

DETAILS are critical if you want people to help you PROPERLY

Hawkze_2.3

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 98vtec &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

ok that doesnt tell anyone anything about how long the rods are, the compression height of the pistons, or the dome volume.

DETAILS are critical if you want people to help you PROPERLY</TD></TR></TABLE>



It seems like that would be the first thing one would list when they need this kind of info...

amalby

you guys are right that I should have provided more info. the compression ratio is stock so 8.8:1. I do not know the rob length but I am sure i is stock also. I believe that the head gasket will set on there just right and will not have a problem with the TDC of the piston coming out. I am going to call IB tomorrow and ask them about this. I will also do a piston to valve clearance before its all said and done.

Sorry if I cant answer your question I want to its just I don't have the knowledge.

Si Speed

Not trying to be a dick, but how do you expect to build a reliable engine without even that basic info?
If you can't tell us that, post some pics. Someone might be able to tell from there at least if it's supposed to be like that or not but that's about it. I imagine it's not supposed to do that just from what I'm reading here. Good luck.

amalby

I actually called the company that helped me out and they said it is spose to do this. It's .020 out and they did it because of the irregular block and pistion combo. I will doubble check stuff and make sure but I am sure they are right.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Si Speed &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Not trying to be a dick, but how do you expect to build a reliable engine without even that basic info?
If you can't tell us that, post some pics. Someone might be able to tell from there at least if it's supposed to be like that or not but that's about it. I imagine it's not supposed to do that just from what I'm reading here. Good luck. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Yes you are right I dont know what I was thinking posting this like I did, but it was late and I was tired. no excuse though. I figured the problem out and thanks for the ideas. I know what you mean when you say I shouldent be putting the engine together, but we all have to start somewhere. As I talk to guys online and guys over the phone I learn something new every day. But if you guys have any suggestions while im putting the engine together that would be awesome but if not that ok.

I will how ever post some pictures up here so you guys can see what I was talking about. And what the build is looking like.

~Andrew

amalby

Heres a pic of the engine mocked up.



one of what I was talking about


one with the head off


Ill up date with more pictures tonight once the head goes on. Ill also be checking TDC and piston to valve clearance also. let yeah know

98vtec

how much material was removed from the deck of the block?

flyrod

It doesn't look like they come out of the head very much. If your head gasket gives you enough clearance so that they won't touch the head, they you should be fine.

98vtec

what is the head setup?

i spy bisimoto cam gears

amalby

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 98vtec &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">how much material was removed from the deck of the block?</TD></TR></TABLE>

.020 thousands was taken off the block.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by flyrod &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It doesn't look like they come out of the head very much. If your head gasket gives you enough clearance so that they won't touch the head, they you should be fine.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Thats what I was figuring, I bought a stock F23 head gasket from a local auto parts store and it looks like it will be fine (or feels fine.) im going to go test it out in about an hour so ill let you know.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 98vtec &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">what is the head setup?

i spy bisimoto cam gears </TD></TR></TABLE>

That right Bisimoto cam gear with there 1.2 level grind on my cam and mild port and polish no gasket matching(couldn't afford it haha.)



Modified by amalby at 10:05 PM 3/3/2008

Hawkze_2.3

Looks like a good build so far

I would also think a head gasket would give you enough room.

amalby

Do you think a thicker head gasket is needed? and if not do you think I should put a thicker one on when I turbo it. drop the compression ratio down a little bit.

Speedra500

IIRC when I was getting pistons made for my f22/h22 hybrid motor and I was looking at specs for the f22 I remember running into discrepancies in one aspect of the clearance combo. I can't really recall in which part it was, I'm thinking maybe the comp height, but when I was calculating the compression height I needed from the numbers posted various places online I found that the piston would be coming out of the deck, which I thought unusual on an OEM setup. I believe some manufacturers use these slightly different specs which could have led to this on your setup. This is definitely not the first time I've heard of this happening on an f22.

thomas188

The biggest thing that I have noticed that I was going to run into when I went to boost and now I'm on my build for the H23 vtec build.... the h23 and f22 has the same stroke so it is applicable to what I'm about to say....Not many people make rods for the f22/h23 engine, sometimes Eagle is advertised as a h23 rod by many sellers...Reasons I do not know.

The truth is that Eagle doesn't even make a rod for the h23, with this being said you can use a h22 rods on our cranks. If you went with an after market piston, Wiseco, they can modify the piston by lowering the point at where the wrist pin connects to the piston, which will accommodate the extra length in the rod and keep all tolerances in spec so to speak. Most likely you are going to be fine with only .02" out of the block, I would recommend running the OEM gasket, or a Cometic which is say.... oh.... .02" thicker than stock and this should ensure success. If you are going to run a decent cam profile, like one similar to most NA builds then you might run into problems, if you keep the stock cam and stock gasket I would suspect no clearance issues..... If there is a clearance problem then you can take your head to the shop and let the remove a specified amount out of the combustion chamber, they might have to remove more than normal since you are not the stock 85mm bore anymore though.

If you ever overheat this one I would be skeptical about shaving your head on the next go around.

Just my .02

0Bisimoto

With the Rod length of the H22 being 5.633", the rod length of the F22 being 5.572", compression height of the H22 existing as 1.221", and the F22 as 1.203", with both blocks having a deck height of 8.643" coupled with the unforgivable 87mm bore piston (as with a stock sleeve, we have seen 86mm to be the ideal max bore), it is VERY possible that you acquired a H22 piston/F22 rod combination (worse would be a H22/H22 combo).

Valve angles are different, and your compression will be way off, as the F22 even has a much smaller 50mm combustion chamber than the H22.

amalby

I found the box they came in and typed in the model number. Came up as H22 pistons. model number K544M87.
has a comp. ht. of 1.2190 with 87mm bore. I did have the block sleeved, bored, and honed by IB. They assure me that this set up will work just fine but I am still checking all the data. I also found out that they are spose to stick out .020 thousands and there are on purpose. I am still waiting for the email to explain a little more to me.

But I know I don't have the H22rod/H22piston combo. its f22rod/H22pistons.

PirateMcFred

Do you have a piston spec sheet that lists the dome cc? Despite all the issues a few ccs here and there on something that low a compression won't change things too much but it's definatley something to pay attention to.

In my opinion it's not too cool when you ask for F22 pistons, expect a specific compression height and a given compression ratio and receive a totally different piston.

As for piston to head clearance you can clay or you can try fitting the head directly on the block with the dowel pins but no head gasket and turn the crank over slowly by hand. if the pistons hit the head then it should lift it up ever so slightly. You can measure the amount of lift with feeler gauges and add .040" to that. Order a head gasket of that thickness, that should get you your .040" piston to head clearance.

Messing with the head gasket thickness and decked block etc will also mess with your intended cam timing. Be sure to install the cam to bisi's centerline spec for optimal performance.

And if the F22A exhaust valve angle is like the DOHC F22B's then you want to be careful of retarding the the cam for fear of piston to valve contact using H22 pistons.

Good luck
Pirate

PirateMcFred

Don't forget to reinstall number 15 into the block again when you assemble the engine.

amalby

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PirateMcFred &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Don't forget to reinstall number 15 into the block again when you assemble the engine.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

Im sorry what is 15? I mean what does it do?

PirateMcFred

it restricts oil to the head. If you leave it out then your rod bearings might not get much oil pressure.

Don't forget it.