Nelson Mandela turned 90 today, and until very recently was still on the US' list of terrorists whose entry we restricted. CNN article link:

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/...watch/

Quote, originally posted by CNN.com »

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Former South African President Nelson Mandela is to be removed from a U.S. terrorism watch list under a bill President Bush signed Tuesday. Mandela and other members of the African National Congress have been on the list because of their fight against South Africa's apartheid regime, which gave way to majority rule in 1994. Apartheid was the nation's system of legalized racial segregation that was enforced by the National Party government between 1948 and 1994.

So, what's your take? Include a brief explanation of your vote. Is Mandela a terrorist?

No (66%, 6 votes)

Yes (33%, 3 votes)

peaceful demonstraters can still be more dangerous than ones who actually act.

Skunk: At what point can you use force against a regime that has systematically imprisoned, killed, and kept under foot your entire RACE simply because of the color of your skin well into the 20th century. Or do you have to play nice the whole time. Perhaps our founding fathers should have just kept writing letters...I'm sure that would have changed things.

Mandela never used force and was imprisoned for DECADES because he resisted the racist regime of S.A. with words and idea alone.

Moemers: You sound like The Man.

This will come down to the saying "One mans freedom fighter is another mans terrorist".

Well, that's sort of what I was trying to get at.

He's only just been removed from the list, but he's been hailed as an international hero and symbol of peace for decades now. Does that mean that anyone who supported him up until a few weeks ago was a terrorist sympathizer?

Also, at what point do you consider - or stop considering - someone a terrorist? Does the power of defining the term rest only with our government? Now that he's been declared an un-terrorist, is he suddenly a freedom fighter? Despite the fact that his contributions to human rights have been nearly universally recognized for so long?

This is a pretty deep rabbit hole of linguistics and semantics, but I think it's a useful debate. I want to hear what some of our more authoritarian members have to say about this.

Well, you've already spoken

For that matter, only 6 nation states list Hizbullah as a terrorist organization. Does that make it so?

On a side note if there was still European Colonialism in Africa do you think they would have all of the problems they have today?

Modified by hu at 3:45 PM 7/20/2008

Quote, originally posted by hu »

On a side note if there never was European Colonialism in Africa do you think they would have all of the problems they have today?

fixed

http://youtube.com/watch?v=vAH3AeFy0SY

"Patriotism is usually the refuge of the scoundrel."
-Mark Twain

Ron Paul 08

I am not an authoritarian. Left-wing authoritarianism is communism, which has not been a viable system of government for...ever?

Side note, what the hell happened to you? You used to be such a reliable Right-wing stalwart, and now it appears you've gone to the same re-education camp that Stealthmode went to.

Haha- you just assumed that I was a Right-wing stalwart

I have always considered myself conservative but compared to my friends who are really conservative- I guess I am not conservative! Its weird. At state central meetings, I talk to them about changing GOP policy and other things and they think I am joking! But I am serious.

I think it has a lot to do with education. I find that the more educated somebody is the more open they are to considering other options. It's okay to be on a losing side but not okay to be on a losing position- if that makes sense.

To give you an example, I am Pro-Life. The presence of life is growth. To me it is a simple issue. Do I look down on women that have abortions? No. At the same time I used to be Pro-death penalty. Most see this as a contradiction. Well, it is. But it can be justified in ones own mind.

This changed when I was in China back in the 90s and saw with my own eyes someone killed in a village. The man was paraded around in the back of a pick-up truck and taken to the center of the village (with people cheering) and then shot for his crime. Seeing somebody die like that changed my mind about the death penalty forever. That was an education that didn't require a book!!

Modified by hu at 12:29 PM 7/23/2008

Car is in Northern VA.

If someone starts moaning about their aching pussy, go read about what was formerly known as the school of the Americas.

Quote, originally posted by Evil Ross »

Morgan Freeman is a terrorist?

I've got your power steering pump right here in my trunk.

Quote, originally posted by Dacalac »

omg didn't he flinch a few times when you brought it out?

1991 CRX GSR by July

Vouch Thread
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1840512

Sleeve Set 1/2 OEM Honda Parts 23521-PA0-325
http://www.honda-tech.com/zero...37824

Possibly one of the most overused phrases in recent memory.

http://www.postgamepub.com - All sports all the time

But an apt illustrator of the power of linguistics/semantics.