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tjbizzo

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9-24-2003
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| « Re: Your AC is threat to national security. Government to set thermostat (turboteener) | « » 4:13 PM 7/7/2008 |
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| Quote, originally posted by turboteener » | | This is great. The government should now control your thermostat. YAY for bigger government.
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Don't you ever get tired of spewing useless hyperbole? Srsly.
| Quote, originally posted by Knightsport » | | Idiocy needs food to thrive and attention is its delicacy. |
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Mark sans

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| « Re: Your AC is threat to national security. Government to set thermostat (turboteener) | « » 4:18 PM 7/7/2008 |
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| Quote, originally posted by turboteener » | | YAY for bigger government. |
Yay for literacy. Or does asking people to sacrifice now qualify as government action? Perhaps the current administration isn't pro-big government after all, in that case -- since they've never asked anyone to sacrifice, but have just happily run up the tab.
"[G]reed, for lack of a better word, is good. Greed is right, greed works. Greed clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit. Greed, in all of its forms; greed for life, for money, for love, knowledge has marked the upward surge of mankind." - GG
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turboteener

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Calm down, just trying to point out how other people would like to use the power of government to enforce their beliefs. Since I don't believe mankind is contributing to global warming, these kinds of government suggestions are asinine. Everyone knows that conserving energy is a good idea. But to insinuate that the government should control such minutiae is wreckless. I agree with you Mark. The government should lead by example instead of commanding from on high.
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kNOwLedGe.

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| Quote, originally posted by turboteener » | Everyone knows that conserving energy is a good idea. But to insinuate that the government should control such minutiae is wreckless.
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RECKLESS.
F@CKIN'-A, MAN...I laugh at you kids with "baller" Hondas that live at home in your parents' house... BEATER '00 B-92P RD2 :insert gay hardparker clique name here:
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turboteener

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RRRRRRRR, I'm a dumbass. Spelling owns me.
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Knightsport
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Ahhh yes, the green initiative.Save the environ ment by driving one of these:

Powered by one of these:

That way you can turn rolling green hills of wild grass and forrests into this:

Save the Planet!!!!!!
A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools. -- Douglas Adams
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turboteener

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But you can finance that new battery when it takes a shit while your still paying off that green wonder. Wait till the owner gets the bill for that 10K$ battery.
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Bishop Don Shizzle
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| « Re: Your AC is threat to national security. Government to set thermostat (turboteener) | « » 11:58 PM 7/8/2008 |
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Really? How much more carried away are we going to get with the "green" movement? I'm all for raising CAFE standards, asking people to drive less by consolidating outings and/or moving closer to work, but now we're going to tell people how to heat/cool their homes? Let's take it easy here.
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njn63

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| « Re: Your AC is threat to national security. Government to set thermostat (Bishop Don Shizzle) | « » 12:27 AM 7/9/2008 |
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I think we should mandate some government literacy programs based on the replies here. Where in that article did they suggest the government enforcing anything? Asking for something is not calling for bigger government or telling you how to live, you don't have to do it if you don't want to. | Quote, originally posted by turboteener » | | But you can finance that new battery when it takes a shit while your still paying off that green wonder. Wait till the owner gets the bill for that 10K$ battery. |
*bites tongue due to recent bannings* The battery pack has an 8 year/100k mile warranty and there are numerous tests and real world examples showing well over 200k miles with no problems. Further, the battery is no where near $10,000 (the only figure I could find wasn't dated and said $4500) and batteries continue to decline in price. In other words, at no point in that post did you come anywhere close to a valid point. Keep up the good work.
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Bishop Don Shizzle
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| « Re: Your AC is threat to national security. Government to set thermostat (njn63) | « » 12:43 AM 7/9/2008 |
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I'm not sure if you're directing that towards me but I realize that the govt. isn't going to be mandating what people should set their thermostats at but even in concept I think we're looking too hard at something that can be fixed in much easier ways. I realize we have to make sacrifices but I'd much rather we try and develop alertanative fuels and produce cars which are more fuel efficient and green before we have campaigns to have people change their lifestyles, especially at home!
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njn63

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| « Re: Your AC is threat to national security. Government to set thermostat (Bishop Don Shizzle) | « » 12:55 AM 7/9/2008 |
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| Quote, originally posted by Bishop Don Shizzle » | | I'm not sure if you're directing that towards me but I realize that the govt. isn't going to be mandating what people should set their thermostats at but even in concept I think we're looking too hard at something that can be fixed in much easier ways. I realize we have to make sacrifices but I'd much rather we try and develop alertanative fuels and produce cars which are more fuel efficient and green before we have campaigns to have people change their lifestyles, especially at home!
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Nope, wasn't directed towards you. I just hit the reply button on your post, sorry. I agree on the second part but the problem is you have to create demand. The only thing the majority of the public understands is their wallet. Electricity is cheap and until that changes you'll see very little effort at conservation no matter what a politician says. Just look at cars. We have the technology on the shelf to make cars that can get 65+ mpg and have done it (Honda Insight). Did it sell? No. Why? Gas was cheap so there was no market for it. Even now, gas isn't that expensive but it has shocked some people into thinking it is.
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turboteener

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I took dramtic license with the article. I realize the government isn't taking control of my thermostat. But there are green nazis out there that would like that.In the past the Insight did not have a battery warranty. Several have come into the local dealership and either had to have them replaced of the owner traded the car in.
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Knightsport
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I've already said ad nauseum that global warming is the new El Nino. Infact I already heard one of my prophecies come true. Someone grandfathered El Nino in as a byproduct of Global Warming on talk radio the other day. lol I KNEW they would.Why wouldn't they? We don't have a lot of climatologists per se but we have TONS of out of work El Nino experts.
A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools. -- Douglas Adams
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Mark sans

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| Quote, originally posted by Knightsport » | | I've already said ad nauseum that global warming is the new El Nino. ... |
That ship sailed in 2005. I was on it. | Quote, originally posted by Bishop Don Shizzle » | | I'm not sure if you're directing that towards me but I realize that the govt. isn't going to be mandating what people should set their thermostats at but even in concept I think we're looking too hard at something that can be fixed in much easier ways. I realize we have to make sacrifices but I'd much rather we try and develop alertanative fuels and produce cars which are more fuel efficient and green before we have campaigns to have people change their lifestyles, especially at home!
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Reactioanry much? You went a made a stupid argument just because you thought someone was calling you out! What is easier than dealing with an extra degree or two around the house? You previously mentioned moving closer to work and consolidating trips outside the home as reasonable -- but not moving the thermostat a couple of degrees is a campain[] to have people change their lifestyles"!? Maybe it is just me, but moving is a huge fuxing deal! So are the other things you mentioned, relative to living in 77 degrees, instead of 75. Personally, I don't think asking people to dial back their thermostats a bit is a huge imposition on their lifestyle and it is a very effective way to save a great deal of energy. And I say this not just because it is "green," but because it is efficient and we need to be more efficient to regain our edge in the global system. And, while I agree that a law mandating this would be ridiculous (and was not even suggested by anyone in the article), I don't think it is wrong for the government to ask us to be better. And, by the same token, I think they should do the same.
"[G]reed, for lack of a better word, is good. Greed is right, greed works. Greed clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit. Greed, in all of its forms; greed for life, for money, for love, knowledge has marked the upward surge of mankind." - GG
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JustAnotherG20

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| Quote, originally posted by turboteener » | | I took dramtic license with the article. I realize the government isn't taking control of my thermostat. But there are green nazis out there that would like that. |
I didn't see that -- though we might be reading "I'd like to see both candidates call for an immediate 5deg.F thermostat adjustment" differently. By the end of the sentence, the author mentions he wants the candidates to ask, not tell the American public to conserve.
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Superhatch

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Along with not telling me what temp to set my house at I think the government should also not be able to tell me what speed to drive, to wear my seatbelt, nor should they tell me how safe my cars have to be, or how old my (future) kids have to be to drive.I should be in complete control of my life. Because not only am I a climate scientist, but I am also an economist, transportation planner, engineer, and professor of political science. I know everything! [/sarcasm] I think the underlying theme of the posted article is that we use WAY to much energy. The amount of AC that we use in the summer (Im in a hotel room right now that has the AC cranked on full cold/high cool every day when I get back from work...as Im sure all the rooms are) uses a TON of energy, and perhaps, a little conservation at the very least in the form of say...the president...asking us to turn up our thermostats 1* would save a noticeable amount of energy. Global warming or not. Coal, and oil aren't going to last forever. If we want to continue to use them we should at least make the things they power as efficient as possible.
"The truth [the truth?] is that for reasons that have a lot to do with the U.S. government bureaucracy, we settled on [settled on?] the one issue that everone could agree on, which was weapons of mass destruction, as the core reason." Paul Wolfowitz
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Ross
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| « Re: Your AC is threat to national security. Government to set thermostat (Bishop Don Shizzle) | « » 5:51 PM 7/9/2008 |
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| Quote, originally posted by Bishop Don Shizzle » | | Really? How much more carried away are we going to get with the "green" movement? I'm all for raising CAFE standards, asking people to drive less by consolidating outings and/or moving closer to work, but now we're going to tell people how to heat/cool their homes? Let's take it easy here. |
Like Mark said - the heating and cooling of your home is the one thing that is most in your control. President Carter told us to man up and put on a sweater, and that was thirty-something years ago. We've been ignoring the warning signs for three decades and now shit is hitting the fan. If anything, we haven't gotten carried away enough with the green movement. Remember the days of Ford vehicles with 85-mph speedometers? I wonder if we'll see the same thing happening with thermostats. In my opinion, the American habit of ignoring the seasons - ie. homes at 68 in the summer/85 in the winter - is going to have to come to an end. I'm laughing about all this now, because my home energy usage is almost nil compared to most. I haven't run my AC at all this season and don't plan to. Keep telling me how brainwashed I am, and how free you are, while you're forking over hundreds of dollars a month just to avoid breaking a sweat. That's not directed at you per se Anish, but at anyone who continues to ridicule people who are doing their part to reduce usage and demand.
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turboteener

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My T-stat is sitting at 80 right now. Yep, it is 93 degrees here also. I use less energy than all ya'll. But nonetheless, the government should not tell me where to set my t-stat, make my car safe, license doctors, hairdressers, interior designers, etc. Enough government. Seat belts in cars are a different situation. The seat belts can let you control the vehicle by keeping you in the seat. (so you could possibly avoid hitting me) Helmet laws are retarded. If you want to ride a motorcylce naked, that should be up to you. When do we demand responsibility from people and stop asking the government to be our parents. Lock down the borders, fight off our enemies and pave the damn roads. Otherwise stay out of my life. I am perfectly capable of determining my own destiny. Global warming is where all the unemployed communists have gone. Its a game to them.
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Superhatch

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Well...who steps in when the general population starts doing really stupid stuff?Helmet laws, for the most part, protect the hospitals, and the state (aka you) who end up paying for medical expenses involving head trauma when a patient doesn't have insurance...or in most cases, when a biker doesn't have a motorcycle license thus doesn't get his accident insured. It seems like the dollar is the only moral compass the US public has. 10mpg trucks..hell yeah! F the environment! F my cities air quality!....$4 gas!!!! ZOMG..I must change my ways!
/sigh
"The truth [the truth?] is that for reasons that have a lot to do with the U.S. government bureaucracy, we settled on [settled on?] the one issue that everone could agree on, which was weapons of mass destruction, as the core reason." Paul Wolfowitz
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kNOwLedGe.

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| Quote, originally posted by turboteener » | | But there are green nazis out there that would like that. |
Somehow, you found a way to use a straw man argument AND use a former political party as a slur all in one sentence. | Quote, originally posted by turboteener » | | Global warming is where all the unemployed communists have gone. Its a game to them. |
Oh shit. Again?  | Quote, originally posted by turboteener » | | My T-stat is sitting at 80 right now. Yep, it is 93 degrees here also. I use less energy than all ya'll. |
My thermostat is OFF, and I live three miles from where I work. I'm 100% sure that I use less energy than you.
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Mark sans

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| Quote, originally posted by Superhatch » | Well...who steps in when the general population starts doing really stupid stuff?
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That's the problem I have with a lot of stuff. I'm perfectly happy to let the government stay out of my life and yours. The problem is that there is someone who does something stupid and then I have to pay for it one way or the other. | Quote, originally posted by Superhatch » | | Helmet laws, for the most part, protect the hospitals, and the state (aka you) who end up paying for medical expenses involving head trauma when a patient doesn't have insurance...or in most cases, when a biker doesn't have a motorcycle license thus doesn't get his accident insured. |
There is more to it than that though. Let's say Mr. Biker is insured, has his license, etc., but that in a genuine accident, I hit him and am at fault. If he's wearing a helmet, maybe he has some road rash and a break or two... but he's not and the dumbass is dead. So we've gone from a $50,000 claim against me to a $1 million claim for the same exact action by me. Were I underinsured for that loss, why should I have pay out of pocket for his recklessness?
"[G]reed, for lack of a better word, is good. Greed is right, greed works. Greed clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit. Greed, in all of its forms; greed for life, for money, for love, knowledge has marked the upward surge of mankind." - GG
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turboteener

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Why do I or anyone else have to pay for someone's stupidity. Anyone who doesn't know how high the cost of medical care is today is on their own. If you do not take the responsibility for yourself and your family, why is that my problem. (unless I choose to take on a charity case of my own free will)I'll expound on Mark's example, that is why you have insurance. It is up to you to determine the amount of protection you should have. I don't need 10million dollars worth of insurance. You can't get blood from a rock. But if you own a house, a business, etc, you probably should have enough insurance to protect your assets. The cost of a huge blanket policy is relatively cheap. With all do respect, if you fail to take care of yourself, guess what happens in nature. You die. But here you can continue to be a burden on society. If you don't have health insurance tough. Guess you don't get fixed. Knowledge, are there not people in the environmental movement that want to force their beliefs on others? Yep. No straw there. For some reason the term civilized society has become synonymous with keeping one from being responsible for themselves and their actions.
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njn63

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| Quote, originally posted by turboteener » | | With all do respect, if you fail to take care of yourself, guess what happens in nature. You die. But here you can continue to be a burden on society. If you don't have health insurance tough. Guess you don't get fixed. |
So you're proposing letting people die because they might not be able to pay their bills? You're completely comfortable living in a society that practices that kind of treatment? This is of course ignoring the mess our health care system is currently. Just as an example, I can not get health insurance without being on a group policy because of a surgery 5 years ago that totaled $80,000 in hospital bills (complications related to crohn's disease, not a choice I made). I guess it's just "too bad" for me though because I "can't take care of myself." | Quote, originally posted by turboteener » | | Knowledge, are there not people in the environmental movement that want to force their beliefs on others? Yep. No straw there. |
Um.. like it or not, what you do effects everyone. Am I "forcing my beliefs on you" if I stop you from dumping motor oil down the storm drain? No. Yes some of the global warming stuff is hype/bs but it takes a ridiculous amount of sensationalism to even get something into the national discourse. That is an issue that has been discussed in congress now for 20 years | Quote, originally posted by turboteener » | | For some reason the term civilized society has become synonymous with keeping one from being responsible for themselves and their actions. |
Partially, yes. You just argued above though that if someone hits a guy on a motorcycle without health insurance it's the motorcyclist that should cover the bills. Wouldn't that be keeping the driver from being held responsible for his/her actions? I'm just playing devil's advocate here and I think if you're not wearing a helmet or taking proper precautions the amount paid should be capped (same goes for personal injuries while not wearing a seatbelt), but there is some contradiction there.
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turboteener

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| Quote, originally posted by njn63 » | So you're proposing letting people die because they might not be able to pay their bills? You're completely comfortable living in a society that practices that kind of treatment? |
Not sure, but it will take such a swing to the other extreme to bring the reality into moderation. | Quote, originally posted by njn63 » | This is of course ignoring the mess our health care system is currently. Just as an example, I can not get health insurance without being on a group policy because of a surgery 5 years ago that totaled $80,000 in hospital bills (complications related to crohn's disease, not a choice I made). I guess it's just "too bad" for me though because I "can't take care of myself." |
The insurance problem is part of why health care is so [freak]ed up. Did you pay the 80K or leave it to someone else to pay? Did you get health insurance before the incident occurred?
| Quote, originally posted by njn63 » | Um.. like it or not, what you do effects everyone. Am I "forcing my beliefs on you" if I stop you from dumping motor oil down the storm drain? No. |
Already against the law. You would be potecting public property by stopping me. But common sense should prevaik there anyway. Don't dump chemicals into the ground. | Quote, originally posted by njn63 » | Yes some of the global warming stuff is hype/bs but it takes a ridiculous amount of sensationalism to even get something into the national discourse. That is an issue that has been discussed in congress now for 20 years | But swinging to the opposite extreme like so many Green Nazis suggest isn't helping either.| Quote, originally posted by njn63 » | Partially, yes. You just argued above though that if someone hits a guy on a motorcycle without health insurance it's the motorcyclist that should cover the bills. Wouldn't that be keeping the driver from being held responsible for his/her actions? I'm just playing devil's advocate here and I think if you're not wearing a helmet or taking proper precautions the amount paid should be capped (same goes for personal injuries while not wearing a seatbelt), but there is some contradiction there. |
No, if the motorcyclists is hit and not at fault, it is the drivers responsibility to make it right. Helmet or no. Driver was at fault. It motorcyclist was doing stupid stunts and gets hit, he is on his own. Can't sue anyone. He or His insurance take care of it. He then pays for it through higher insurance, court settlement, wage garnishment, etc.
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