At my first HPDE last weekend i had a little engine trouble in my last session. lets just say we found the #3 rod and the other pieces on the track. from the looks of things i believe the ARP rod bolt broke causing the failure. luckily the head is all ok. bottom end was stock ls rods w/ arp bolts. motor (see sig) ran flawlessly all day until the very end of my last session when it let go.

on the the topic:
I have had a B20 block for some time now and i have been wanting to use it. My main question is what has been your experience with b20's at track conditions, 6-8500 rpms for a full session/race. i have herd mixed reviews some say they work great, blah blah blah, some not so great it will crack a sleeve in a matter of time. i know B20 blocks hold up fine on street/strip cars, but track time is a hole new ballpark.

I am thinking about a gsr crank/rods in the b20 block, kind of a power meets reliability build. i know Omniman did this setup (b20/gsr crank/rods) a few years ago with good results.

I am just looking for some input from those who may have B20 experience and how it held up.

thanks!

ls/v, p30's, pro2's = 225/154 jeff evans tuned
12.907 @ 105.8 w/ best trap of 108.8mph in a 2550lb w/ driver DC2
http://www.EVANS-TUNING.com

Only things to keep in mind with non-VTEC B-series engines are oil heat and oil starvation. Problems easily solved with an oil cooler and baffled oil pan respectively. The cooler isn't necessary even, but the pan is (IMO) essential.

Shifter Kart Mafia Member 005

thanks for the replies, it will be a B20/v setup. i am hoping using the gsr crank/rod setup will ease the stress a little at high rpms on the track. i know its not even 2mm less stroke, but ill take it.

I would hate to put together this motor and after a few events (hpde's) bust a sleeve .., lol.

ls/v, p30's, pro2's = 225/154 jeff evans tuned
12.907 @ 105.8 w/ best trap of 108.8mph in a 2550lb w/ driver DC2
http://www.EVANS-TUNING.com

Shifter Kart Mafia Member 005

ls/v, p30's, pro2's = 225/154 jeff evans tuned
12.907 @ 105.8 w/ best trap of 108.8mph in a 2550lb w/ driver DC2
http://www.EVANS-TUNING.com

Shifter Kart Mafia Member 005

Kevin gets around two weekends outta his @ 9,000ish rev limit.

Trust me.

Do the piston speed math and you'll see. (i.e. keep it under 7900 if you want it to last)

Take his advice

Shifter Kart Mafia Member 005

In in '06, I ran the Type R rods and crank & 85mm pistons with NO BLOCK GUARD and cracked the cylinders in 1 1/2 days at Mid Ohio. I had one of the most powerful engines running at Mid-Ohio in '06 before the cylinder crackage. Just before we went to nationals the engine was dyno'ing at 242whp @8900rpms. When the engine started to fail, I was only revving it to 8500rpms on the track.

At the '07 Nationals, Helms and I (both with B20's) had 222whp and 221 whp, respectively (dyno at Nationals). This time I kept the engine under 8800rpms all weekend, ran the LS crank & rods with a blockguard and the engine lasted without any problems and no compression lost at all.
Typically with the block guard, revving to 8500-8800rpms hasn't been a problem.

I have a BRAND NEW B20 shortblock (my backup engine & identical to last year's nationals engine) that hasn't been started/ran yet for sale if you're interested

Before I picked what class/engine I wanted to do for HC, we spoke a lot about the B-series, especially the B20. His main mechanic was there as well, I don't remember his name, but he was quite helpful too, here was the verdict:

For high HP engines, like over 210 whp, the thing is going to be marginal on reliability, in that the sleeve will crack. He was getting 2-4 weekends out of a motor. One time last year, he even ran a B18C5 without telling anyone, at the B-series weight (don't know if this was a secret or not) just to do it, and still won the EC H1 HC event. He also mentioned not revving it as high as say a B16 or B18, as that instigates the sleeve cracking sooner.

However, he loves the damn B20, and can afford to toss a block every 2-4 weekends, he owns HondaWorks.

I'd say if you are set on the B20, do it, but don't build it over 210 whp, and watch your rev's...

1988 CRX HF w/B18C5 - HPDE (soon H2) car
Check my profile for the setup

That head will never breathe well enough to approach the failure point on the sleeves. If you keep the RPM & piston speed down, every thing is happy and lasts. As soon as you rev it hard you start living on borrowed time.

ls/v, p30's, pro2's = 225/154 jeff evans tuned
12.907 @ 105.8 w/ best trap of 108.8mph in a 2550lb w/ driver DC2
http://www.EVANS-TUNING.com

same here, but i have the B20Z.. not really much difference but ive had a great time with it and such

This is not totally true. The P8R cylinder head is a much better candidate for head flow and with the appropriate sized cams they can absolutely make power in the 8-8500 range.

I HATE GRENADES!

I haven't had any cooling issues with a block guard at all, and I've raced 50min on a road course revving to 8500+rpms with one. There's more restriction issues with the head gasket than the block guard. (the passages in the head gasket restrict more flow than a block guard does).

yeah, but wouldn't the restriction from both add up??? you got the head gasket that is restrictive, then you add a block guard that'll add more restriction to it. doesn't that add up?

I HATE GRENADES!

I see what you're saying, but my guess is that the amount of water going to and through head gasket is the same with or without my block guard installed. I don't know which block guard you're talking about causing cooling issues, but I use the Golden Eagle block guard and it has adequately wide water passages-without sacraficing cylinder support. I've run the B20 with and WITHOUT the block guard and haven't seen any differences in water temps at all on the track.

Quote, originally posted by sander »

The P8R cylinder head is a much better candidate for head flow and with the appropriate sized cams they can absolutely make power in the 8-8500 range.

Please point me to any non-ported P8R dyno info you've seen. I'd be very interested.

hmm.... really, okay.

I HATE GRENADES!

The amount of water flowing through the headgasket is not the primary concern with a blockguard. The problem with a blockguard is that you are replacing engine coolant at the very top of the cylinders, where temperatures are the hottest. You wouldn't see an increase in coolant temperature because the thermostat is going to keep the temperature about the same either way, unless the coolant system was already overwhelmed. I can only imagine that cylinders are running hotter with a blockguard.

Since we're on blockguards and the B20. What is the whole purpose of a blockguard? To support the sleeve in an engine that has a less-than-ideal rod to stroke ratio, like the B20s. But, the blockguards support the very top of the cylinders, where the piston is just dwelling at TDC. There's very little thrust against the cylinder walls at that point. Most of the side thrust will occur half way down the cylinder on the intake side, after combustion, when the rod is at a high angle to the cylinder (due to the long stroke).

Here's a good read about building a B20.
http://www.theoldone.com/articles/badtothebone/
Note the 8 posts on the intake side and 4 on the exhaust side.

Also, check out their Archives for tons of info on engine building, blockguards, rod/stroke ratios, etc.

Larry Widmer is a smart guy. And I have no doubt he's done his homework on posting vs. block guards. But I bet if he had the choice of only running with or without a block guard, he'd choose with. And the way I read the rules in HC that is our only choice...