Technical Discussion on Tuning an FI car from Scratch

[JDM EJ1 95]

so this will basically get me grounded into the art of tuning? pretty cool ill definitely look into that..... has anyone taken this and what did you think of it?

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[Mase]

exactly, the tps can and is used for numerous things, such as Idle, enrichment, decel and accel as stated.


anyways, I would not like to get too much indepth w/ background of all this, talking too much about this would take away from EFI101 and since ben is a good friend, I dont want to pirate anything. I havent read his book YET, but im interested to see how indepth it goes.

Id like to talk more about the physical tuning aspects. If i have time today, ill make a generalized checklist of what to look for, and maybe discuss the issues of a basemap.

[Mase]

Originally Posted by JDM EJ1 95

so this will basically get me grounded into the art of tuning? pretty cool ill definitely look into that..... has anyone taken this and what did you think of it?

a lot of people have taken it on HT. Every time it comes near me, I go and help out with the classes, there is also an EFI Advanced class where you will actually get real tuning hands on experience. theres more info on the website.

[Paul_VR6]

Originally Posted by Mase

Id like to talk more about the physical tuning aspects. If i have time today, ill make a generalized checklist of what to look for, and maybe discuss the issues of a basemap.

Basemap be damned! Post up a checklist so we can all read, and perhaps add to it. I think that would be the most useful thing for all of us to have access to.

[B18CXr]

which 90% of HT tuners and shop owners can never tune ALL of partial throttle for shit,


yep, a loading dyno (and knowing how to use it) is key to getting a perfect tune

[Corinthians]

Mase can u share a little knowledge about microtech tuning pls. I really want to know more a bout my microtech ltx8. Thanks

[HaTcH_BmX]

Originally Posted by B18cturbo400

Mase can u share a little knowledge about microtech tuning pls. I really want to know more a bout my microtech ltx8. Thanks

i think this thread is more like to explain what tunning is about other than go into details of each system. just a thought

Originally Posted by Mase

my honest answer to that is sign up for Ben Straders EFI101 class at http://www.efi101.com

he covers a lot of this same material, and in even greater detail.

Does he talk about Hondata, Uberdata, AEM EMS or does he just teach you the basics

[toolowsol]

I myself will be tuning a turbo basemap from scratch. Infact, i will have to calculate my inicial values as well. My college is making a formula car for the SAE competion. We decided to go with a 600cc motorcycle engine, with a turbo slapped on for an added challange. Fuel and timing will be controlled by motec. Should be VERY interesting I will post up a thread when I'm done of what we did, how it worked and how many motors we blew doing it Good thread

[DIRep972]

Personally I like it when a tuner spends an hour to make the a/f a perfect flat 12.2322:1 all the way across. I guess those are the "a/f ratio" tuners you guys are talking about. At full throttle I wouldn't even say that a/f ratio is one half of the tuning process. more like 20%. Part throttle/idle id say its pretty important, but ironically enough the "a/f ratio" tuners who spend an hour at WOT getting it to 12.2322:1 will spend less then 10 minutes on part throttle & idle.

Good thread Mase, ..... you still suck.

[Mase]

honest, i have never used microtech, but i can tell you its going to be a lot like any other system, your fuel and ignition maps will be 3 axis, one for rpms, one for boost or load, and the third for the fuel/ignition value.

[Mase]

Originally Posted by Rocks

Does he talk about Hondata, Uberdata, AEM EMS or does he just teach you the basics

he doesnt talk about specific systems all that much, he is more of an autronic guy anyways, but he will go into some details of which ever system the demo car is using.

[Bulldogg83]

Great write up!

Quick question....have you ever delt with the Unichip system?

Originally Posted by Mase

a lot of people have taken it on HT. Every time it comes near me, I go and help out with the classes, there is also an EFI Advanced class where you will actually get real tuning hands on experience. theres more info on the website.

I agree take the class...A friend went last weekend and said it was great....he even said Mase was cool...I still dont' believe that part though.

[b18cls1]

Originally Posted by Mpir3

I agree take the class...A friend went last weekend and said it was great....he even said Mase was cool...I still dont' believe that part though.

yes the class is good it will teach you alot of the theroys and calculations that you need to know, and will use often.

and maybe next time mase we can have a turbo with a full compressor wheel

[Mase]

Originally Posted by b18cls1

yes the class is good it will teach you alot of the theroys and calculations that you need to know, and will use often.

and maybe next time mase we can have a turbo with a full compressor wheel

haha yeah, u missed it, after the advanced class left, it pulled 320 whp not too shabby for that piece of shit turbo.


Mpir3, me cool, wtf. no way.

Originally Posted by Mase

Mpir3, me cool, wtf. no way.

yea thats what i said...I prolly woulda shot myself if i had to deal with you for 3 straight days

[Mase]

who was your buddy?

i cant imagine the horror when people have to put up w/ me for 3 straight days, much less my nightly antics.... no one wanted to go out and party...

[Antilag]

Just to add for tuning ignition maps, interpolating is not always a good thing. I run a FAST, and a tuner tried to interpolate my ignition maps. Was only getting 330 whp at 18 psi, when previously i was getting 582 whp.

The same with ve tables too.

I didn't know just a few degrees too advance of timing can loose you soo much hp and tq! like 200 whp!

[Muckman]

Steve I have a question for you. I was reading through your initial post with the story about the car with the ITBs and you said you had to give it more ignition for part throttle.

How do you know how much timing to run for part throttle? Obviously you cant depend on knock to show the threshold of ignition advancement as there isn't enough load to cause detonation.

And you can't dyno part throttle. Or can you?

The example of the car with the ITBs was rather obvious. The car exhibited very loud symptoms and the problem was addressed. However most vehicles won't be that obvious during low load driving.

Is part throttle tuning just a "feel" kind of thing or is there more of a science to it like tuning WOT is?

[Arturbo]

Originally Posted by Mase

i cant imagine the horror when people have to put up w/ me for 3 straight days, much less my nightly antics.... .

I know that first hand.

[Mase]

Originally Posted by Arturbo

I know that first hand.

shit u missed "the night" of the rental car though... best night ever, i think i should upload some of those videos...

[b18cls1]

Originally Posted by Muckman

And you can't dyno part throttle. Or can you?

load bearing dyno mustang dyno, dyno dynamics, dynapack

alows you to hold a car at a certain rpm and then you can put as little or as much of a load on the car at that rpm then just move from one breakpoint to the next..

[turb]

so a dynoject is not load bearing and thus cannot be used for part throttle tuning?

[Bailhatch]

to expand on the inital tuning checklist, how about a flow chart type of thing like a factory diagnostic procedure. I know there are a lot of variables but I'm sure some of the same situations come up when tuning a turbo car so this type of diagnostic tuning chart might be helpful.