Honda and Acura Technical Forums

Steve91 · 10-19-2003, 07:21 PM

At ButtonWillow this weekend there was a terrible tragedy and a fellow racer lost his life. Trauma to the neck was the cause. This has greatly raised my interest in a device such as the HANS or Hutchins restraints.

Since the Hutchins is priced more within reach, can anyone give feedback on their usage. Also, where is a good place to buy one?

Thanks

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jisu009 · 10-19-2003, 07:30 PM

RIP fellow racer

What happened?

here is the HANS site http://www.hansdevice.com/

Steve91 · 10-19-2003, 07:34 PM

Well it was rather odd. The car rolled in a 2nd gear turn. Everyone was surprised he died considering the accident did not look to be that severe. He was in a full race car and all the safety equipment was in place and worked properly. He unfortunately did not have a head restraint system.

jisu009 · 10-19-2003, 07:39 PM

Scary..

so is the price on the HANS.

EBAY to the rescue:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...35340

Modified by jisu009 at 6:11 AM 10/20/2003

bluegsr · 10-20-2003, 08:02 AM

Some VERY good reading before you buy:

http://www.isaacdirect.com/htm....html

They (Isaac) offer a head/neck restraint as well; they're great folks to work with and will answer questions honestly - about their product AND other products. Price point lands between the Hutchens and the HANS.

Guess what's hooked onto my helmet? Anyone at the ARRC this year is welcome to check it out - just look me up.

Jarrod

Track rat · 10-20-2003, 08:31 AM

hans = $900
Powered Wheel chair = $3,000
Funeral = $10,000

Hracer · 10-20-2003, 08:36 AM

That's terrible news...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve91

The car rolled in a 2nd gear turn.

Although I'll have such a restraint system before the first race of next year myself, I don't know how effective they are for side to side movements, such as those produced by a roll over. Are they?

JHill · 10-20-2003, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hracer

That's terrible news...

Although I'll have such a restraint system before the first race of next year myself, I don't know how effective they are for side to side movements, such as those produced by a roll over. Are they?

Yes, the HANS device is effective for side loads as well.

I would recommend to any racer to view the DVD that HANS has showing the crash testing they have done. I think that most would agree after watching, that a restraint system of some sort would become a self-imposed prerequisite to racing, as well as proper installation of a good harness.

That is terrible news about the racer at BW.

turfer · 10-20-2003, 09:08 AM

It annoys me that the photos on the Issac site seem to make an effort to not show how the attachment to the belt fits...either on the belt or on the shoulder/body. It looks like to ears of aluminum pointing straight down at the collar bone.

I do like the $65 rental of a helmet with the device attached. I think I'll try it next year and hopefully can borrows Jim Hill's Hans to make a back to back comparison test.

Rick

bluegsr · 10-20-2003, 09:18 AM

This image seems to show the attachment about as clearly as any, although the black-on-black-on-black color scheme makes it a bit tough...

In essence, the U-shaped ears (as you refer to them) sit around the shoulder harness, with a roller pin under the harness to complete the attachment. This allows the entire system to move up and down the shoulder harness with the head and body, to a degree.

I don't have any concern about the proximity to my collar bone - the bracket actually ends up sitting between my shoulder and the seat.

Personally, if I were even CONSIDERING a Hutchens device, I'd get this instead: http://www.over40racing.com/

Not much difference in functionality; affordable; and Jay Wright has a vested interest in making this thing work. He's in a wheelchair as a result of a racing incident.

At $150, it really eliminates the excuses not to have SOMETHING.

Jarrod

gsbaker · 10-20-2003, 11:50 AM

Very sorry to hear about another death.

It's difficult to get a good shot of the belt connector in the car. This rear view shows the assembly. The belt goes in the gap between the roller and the C-shaped plate:

http://www.isaacdirect.com/ima...w.JPG

Modified by gsbaker at 10:57 PM 10/20/2003

Outsane · 10-20-2003, 02:16 PM

On sunday all of the horse collars that the track shop where sold out except for the the carting ones...

Simon Tibbett · 10-20-2003, 06:36 PM

Yes get an Isaac system.....

Steve91 · 10-20-2003, 06:46 PM

I cant seem to find anyone selling the Hutchins device online, anyone have a link?

.RJ · 10-20-2003, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simon Tibbett

Yes get an Isaac system.....

Do you have any personal experience with it or are you just plugging your sponsor?

MrIllegalX · 10-20-2003, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Track rat

hans = $900
Powered Wheel chair = $3,000
Funeral = $10,000

He makes a good point. At what price do you put on your life? No matter how much money it takes, if you know you're racing safely, (kind of an oxymoron), it's worth it. I recommend Hans, but I've had no experience with the other head restraint devices.

civicrr · 10-20-2003, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve91

I cant seem to find anyone selling the Hutchins device online, anyone have a link?

http://www.pitstopusa.com

I would recommend a HANS device. I been using mine for the last year & feel pretty comfortable in it. It is still the most used device out there. It has the most real world evidence that it works. The con of using the Hutchins is that the straps will cut into you & they will stretch. There are rumors of other soft tissue sustaining trauma from it. The newer model uses a 'climbing harness' type attachment. If I remember, the Issac device bolts to something solid. It could make it a little harder to get out of the car quickly.

That being said, any of the above is better than no device at all.

EG TYPE-R · 10-20-2003, 08:21 PM

yeah it was really sad to hear that that racer died. I was there but did not see what happened. I had even talked to him about his car earlier in the day just asking a question and he was very cool about letting me and my friends know about it. this was my first event and had a great time other than hearing about his death. all my condolescens go out to his family and friends.

misha

phat-S · 10-21-2003, 07:27 AM

Steve, any information on the cause of blood loss? I found a few blurbs on nasaforums.com (944 forum), realride.com and the press release on nasaproracing.com but was curious if there was any information at BW about the cause of injury. Obviously this is a horrible event and I am sure this is a loss felt by his immediate family, RealRide and the greater NASA family. Any information as to the cause would be appreciated (as precautionary information not to cast blame).

FWIW, I wear the Isaac Device and have been very comfortable and confident with it (have worn it since Feb this year and have hit a wall with it on and have nothing but rave reviews). Any way you can help to protect yourself is a step in a positive direction be it with the Isaac, Hans, Hutchens, Wright devices. I believe Alex is correct that no device was designed with lateral impacts as the primary concern. I believe you can find the Hutchens device through BSR products (Charlotte area), Hans from http://www.hansdevice.com, http://www.over40racing.com for the Wright device (not sure if that's the official website) and as mentioned above - http://www.isaacdirect.com for the Isaac device.

Phoenix_ITR · 10-21-2003, 03:56 PM

so this "isaac" system actually "bolts" your helmet to the harnesses?!?!

i'm sorry but personally, there is no way in hell i would ever use this system.

tony -- who has been using a hutchens for two years now.

Dan GSR · 10-21-2003, 04:19 PM

I recently purchased a G-Force Pro Force 1
It has built in mounting points for their own head restraint sytem
what do you guys think of the SRS-1 Helmet Restraint

link to info http://www.racerwholesale.com/...lmets

gsbaker · 10-21-2003, 04:54 PM

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">so this "isaac" system actually "bolts" your helmet to the harnesses?!?!
i'm sorry but personally, there is no way in hell i would ever use this system.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Why? Nothing is "bolted" to the harness, and it outperforms your Hutchens by a wide margin.

phat-S · 10-22-2003, 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by delinquent

so this "isaac" system actually "bolts" your helmet to the harnesses?!?!

i'm sorry but personally, there is no way in hell i would ever use this system.

tony -- who has been using a hutchens for two years now.

I think you are missing how the device works. Its a fixed point mounting to the helmet (like a Hutchens, Hans device). The free ends opposed to being strapped around your body or to a backplane which rides under your harness is connected to the belts behind you on rollers. As the body slides forward, the rollers ride behind the shoulders at their high point. The damper is what slows your head/helmet down on rapid deceleration. I think there are videos of how it works but if not and if you are at the ARRC, come down to skidpad and look for a white/red CRX and I'll show you how it functions. It is not in anyway mounted at a fixed point on the harness.

Simon Tibbett · 10-22-2003, 01:11 PM

I have no experience with an Isaac system yet, but as soon as my car hits the track next year I am saving my money for one!

Phoenix_ITR · 10-22-2003, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gsbaker

[/b]

Why? Nothing is "bolted" to the harness, and it outperforms your Hutchens by a wide margin.

nothing may be "bolted" to the harness, however if i feel the need to exit the car quickly for any reason, those little rollers are still clamped to the harness, correct?
when you pop the camlock, the hutchens frees itself and nothing else prevents you from getting out of the car -- no added motions...same goes for the hans.

i just don't like the idea of having an independent assembly locking my head into the car.

-tony

10-19-2003, 07:30 PM	#2
jisu009 Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Mainland, USA Posts: 2,462	Re: Tell me more about the Hutchins Device (Steve91) RIP fellow racer What happened? here is the HANS site http://www.hansdevice.com/ __________________ -Jeremy HBZ ______________________________ Support those who support you. http://www.micahwolf.com/ http://www.bandofhorses.com/ http://www.devineguitars.com/

10-19-2003, 07:34 PM	#3
Steve91 Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: So. Cal. Posts: 1,399	Re: Tell me more about the Hutchins Device (jisu009) Well it was rather odd. The car rolled in a 2nd gear turn. Everyone was surprised he died considering the accident did not look to be that severe. He was in a full race car and all the safety equipment was in place and worked properly. He unfortunately did not have a head restraint system.

10-19-2003, 07:39 PM	#4
jisu009 Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Mainland, USA Posts: 2,462	Re: Tell me more about the Hutchins Device (Steve91) Scary.. so is the price on the HANS. EBAY to the rescue: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...35340 Modified by jisu009 at 6:11 AM 10/20/2003 __________________ -Jeremy HBZ ______________________________ Support those who support you. http://www.micahwolf.com/ http://www.bandofhorses.com/ http://www.devineguitars.com/

10-20-2003, 08:02 AM	#5
bluegsr New User Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: West Des Moines, IA, USA Posts: 153	Re: Tell me more about the Hutchins Device (jisu009) Some VERY good reading before you buy: http://www.isaacdirect.com/htm....html They (Isaac) offer a head/neck restraint as well; they're great folks to work with and will answer questions honestly - about their product AND other products. Price point lands between the Hutchens and the HANS. Guess what's hooked onto my helmet? Anyone at the ARRC this year is welcome to check it out - just look me up. Jarrod __________________ '91 Mazda Miata - Spec Miata #59 Des Moines Valley Region, SCCA

10-20-2003, 08:31 AM	#6
Track rat Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: HP, NC, USA Posts: 2,472	Re: Tell me more about the Hutchins Device (bluegsr) hans = $900 Powered Wheel chair = $3,000 Funeral = $10,000 __________________ P1 Auto Rocks! (Rocked) http://images.honda-tech.com/set1/smile/emsad.gif '98 type R H2 #81 - 2006 HC/H2 National Champ '01 5.4 Ford Expy 4x4 - tow mule '07 4 door Accord SE...manual, of course http://images.honda-tech.com/set1/smile/emwink.gif

10-20-2003, 09:08 AM	#9
turfer Join Date: May 2003 Location: Snohomish, WA, 98296 Posts: 495	Re: Tell me more about the Hutchins Device (bluegsr) It annoys me that the photos on the Issac site seem to make an effort to not show how the attachment to the belt fits...either on the belt or on the shoulder/body. It looks like to ears of aluminum pointing straight down at the collar bone. I do like the $65 rental of a helmet with the device attached. I think I'll try it next year and hopefully can borrows Jim Hill's Hans to make a back to back comparison test. Rick

10-20-2003, 09:18 AM	#10
bluegsr New User Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: West Des Moines, IA, USA Posts: 153	Re: Tell me more about the Hutchins Device (turfer) This image seems to show the attachment about as clearly as any, although the black-on-black-on-black color scheme makes it a bit tough... In essence, the U-shaped ears (as you refer to them) sit around the shoulder harness, with a roller pin under the harness to complete the attachment. This allows the entire system to move up and down the shoulder harness with the head and body, to a degree. I don't have any concern about the proximity to my collar bone - the bracket actually ends up sitting between my shoulder and the seat. Personally, if I were even CONSIDERING a Hutchens device, I'd get this instead: http://www.over40racing.com/ Not much difference in functionality; affordable; and Jay Wright has a vested interest in making this thing work. He's in a wheelchair as a result of a racing incident. At $150, it really eliminates the excuses not to have SOMETHING. Jarrod __________________ '91 Mazda Miata - Spec Miata #59 Des Moines Valley Region, SCCA

10-20-2003, 11:50 AM	#11
gsbaker Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 100	Re: Tell me more about the Hutchins Device (turfer) Very sorry to hear about another death. It's difficult to get a good shot of the belt connector in the car. This rear view shows the assembly. The belt goes in the gap between the roller and the C-shaped plate: http://www.isaacdirect.com/ima...w.JPG Modified by gsbaker at 10:57 PM 10/20/2003 __________________ Gregg Baker, P.E. Isaac, LLC http://www.isaacdirect.com

10-20-2003, 02:16 PM	#12
Outsane Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: San Diego, CA, USA Posts: 3,180	Re: Tell me more about the Hutchins Device (gsbaker) On sunday all of the horse collars that the track shop where sold out except for the the carting ones... __________________ - Photo Portfolio - Parts for Sale Mostly EF.::=::. CRX Parts needed

10-20-2003, 06:36 PM	#13
Simon Tibbett Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Athens, GA, USA Posts: 1,069	Yes get an Isaac system..... __________________ Simon Tibbett NASA-SE/SCCA ATL

10-20-2003, 06:46 PM	#14
Steve91 Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: So. Cal. Posts: 1,399	Re: (Simon Tibbett) I cant seem to find anyone selling the Hutchins device online, anyone have a link?

10-20-2003, 08:21 PM	#18
EG TYPE-R Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: ca, usa Posts: 445	Re: (civicrr) yeah it was really sad to hear that that racer died. I was there but did not see what happened. I had even talked to him about his car earlier in the day just asking a question and he was very cool about letting me and my friends know about it. this was my first event and had a great time other than hearing about his death. all my condolescens go out to his family and friends. misha __________________ 92 vx hatch http://images.honda-tech.com/set1/smile/emthup.gif

10-21-2003, 07:27 AM	#19
phat-S New User Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Charlotte, NC, USA Posts: 3,062	Re: Tell me more about the Hutchins Device (Steve91) Steve, any information on the cause of blood loss? I found a few blurbs on nasaforums.com (944 forum), realride.com and the press release on nasaproracing.com but was curious if there was any information at BW about the cause of injury. Obviously this is a horrible event and I am sure this is a loss felt by his immediate family, RealRide and the greater NASA family. Any information as to the cause would be appreciated (as precautionary information not to cast blame). FWIW, I wear the Isaac Device and have been very comfortable and confident with it (have worn it since Feb this year and have hit a wall with it on and have nothing but rave reviews). Any way you can help to protect yourself is a step in a positive direction be it with the Isaac, Hans, Hutchens, Wright devices. I believe Alex is correct that no device was designed with lateral impacts as the primary concern. I believe you can find the Hutchens device through BSR products (Charlotte area), Hans from http://www.hansdevice.com, http://www.over40racing.com for the Wright device (not sure if that's the official website) and as mentioned above - http://www.isaacdirect.com for the Isaac device.

10-21-2003, 03:56 PM	#20
Phoenix_ITR Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: United States Posts: 1,788	Re: Tell me more about the Hutchins Device (bluegsr) so this "isaac" system actually "bolts" your helmet to the harnesses?!?! i'm sorry but personally, there is no way in hell i would ever use this system. tony -- who has been using a hutchens for two years now. __________________ 1994 Civic DX Coupe -- Honda Challenge H2 #19 1994 Civic EX Coupe -- Current DD 2000 Integra Type R -- stolen

10-21-2003, 04:19 PM	#21
Dan GSR Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: New York Posts: 4,633	Re: Tell me more about the Hutchins Device (delinquent) I recently purchased a G-Force Pro Force 1 It has built in mounting points for their own head restraint sytem what do you guys think of the SRS-1 Helmet Restraint link to info http://www.racerwholesale.com/...lmets __________________ Frost White 95 LS... SOLD 2006 VW GTI R-Speed

10-21-2003, 04:54 PM	#22
gsbaker Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 100	<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">so this "isaac" system actually "bolts" your helmet to the harnesses?!?! i'm sorry but personally, there is no way in hell i would ever use this system.</TD></TR></TABLE> Why? Nothing is "bolted" to the harness, and it outperforms your Hutchens by a wide margin. __________________ Gregg Baker, P.E. Isaac, LLC http://www.isaacdirect.com

10-22-2003, 01:11 PM	#24
Simon Tibbett Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Athens, GA, USA Posts: 1,069	I have no experience with an Isaac system yet, but as soon as my car hits the track next year I am saving my money for one! __________________ Simon Tibbett NASA-SE/SCCA ATL

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