ProFunction and Kinsler Present: Epic All Motor Bseries Manifold Testing
09-27-2010, 10:43 AM
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ProFunction and Kinsler Present: Epic All Motor Bseries Manifold Testing
I guess its time to let the cat out of the bag. For those who have followed our last recent testing thread (https://honda-tech.com/forums/all-motor-naturally-aspirated-44/profunction-presents-bseries-intake-manifold-tests-version-2-0-l-endyn-edelbrock-itr-2836657/) might have seen the VictorX vs. CF Air vs. CNC ITR on our street 2.0L engine. The CNC ITR came out on top with 244whp. Our previous best at the track was 11.52@118 with this configuration.
The engine setup is as follows
85mm Bore X 89mm Stroke
CP Shelf 13ish:1 pistons/Eagle Rods
Skunk ProSeries Valvetrain
Skunk Pro3 Cams/Skunk Cam Gears
Portflow Headwork
ProFab Header w/ 3 inch exhaust
*Please note that everything is off the shelf and nothing is custom. This setup can be duplicated quite easily.
Ok, so during our testing we get in contact with Scott @ Kinsler. He sends out a set of 55mm ITB's for the sake of testing. What happned next on the dyno made me crap my pants. During the crapping of my pants i had to double check that my dyno wasnt broken and that everything was right. After analyzing my fuel additions and putting some other verified whp cars on the dyno...it turns out that it is true....
The Kinslers made power everywhere and by a more than normal rate.
*Please ignore the dyno spike. At 9100 rpm everytime ( and not while bouncing off rev limiter) we had this big whp spike. As consistent as it was we didnt count it towards our gains. True peak whp I would guess is worth about 45whp.
From beggining to end the gains were pretty substantial.
The car will be returning to the track on Wednesday to see how usable this power will be down the 1/4 mile track. I expect a few tenths off and a few mph up. Test driving the car on the street proves the falken azenis street tires to be useless.....even through 3rd gear. If i grow a set of nuts i'll be raising the revlimit to see what happens when we go past 9500.
Heres a couple Vids of the car in action on the dyno.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHB6tWILRjw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYPQnE-LpqA
I will be keeping this thread updated with track times and info from datalogs when the car goes down the track. I have a feeling that all of this power will not apply down the track fully well until we figure out a better way to feed air to the throttle bodies. We'll be working on some kind of contraption to feed them.
Also wanted to give a thanks to Scott and the crew at Kinsler for helping us out on the testing and being willing to donate their time for the sake of knowledge. Also props to my staff for staying late with me and helping out during the whole process.
Need all motor power? Call Scott at Kinsler.
The engine setup is as follows
85mm Bore X 89mm Stroke
CP Shelf 13ish:1 pistons/Eagle Rods
Skunk ProSeries Valvetrain
Skunk Pro3 Cams/Skunk Cam Gears
Portflow Headwork
ProFab Header w/ 3 inch exhaust
*Please note that everything is off the shelf and nothing is custom. This setup can be duplicated quite easily.
Ok, so during our testing we get in contact with Scott @ Kinsler. He sends out a set of 55mm ITB's for the sake of testing. What happned next on the dyno made me crap my pants. During the crapping of my pants i had to double check that my dyno wasnt broken and that everything was right. After analyzing my fuel additions and putting some other verified whp cars on the dyno...it turns out that it is true....
The Kinslers made power everywhere and by a more than normal rate.
*Please ignore the dyno spike. At 9100 rpm everytime ( and not while bouncing off rev limiter) we had this big whp spike. As consistent as it was we didnt count it towards our gains. True peak whp I would guess is worth about 45whp.
From beggining to end the gains were pretty substantial.
The car will be returning to the track on Wednesday to see how usable this power will be down the 1/4 mile track. I expect a few tenths off and a few mph up. Test driving the car on the street proves the falken azenis street tires to be useless.....even through 3rd gear. If i grow a set of nuts i'll be raising the revlimit to see what happens when we go past 9500.
Heres a couple Vids of the car in action on the dyno.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHB6tWILRjw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYPQnE-LpqA
I will be keeping this thread updated with track times and info from datalogs when the car goes down the track. I have a feeling that all of this power will not apply down the track fully well until we figure out a better way to feed air to the throttle bodies. We'll be working on some kind of contraption to feed them.
Also wanted to give a thanks to Scott and the crew at Kinsler for helping us out on the testing and being willing to donate their time for the sake of knowledge. Also props to my staff for staying late with me and helping out during the whole process.
Need all motor power? Call Scott at Kinsler.
09-27-2010, 11:16 AM
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Re: ProFunction and Kinsler Present: Epic All Motor Bseries Manifold Testing
omg!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! thanks now im gonna get my head ported and get me some itbs thanks 
thats just insane!
thats just insane!
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09-27-2010, 11:36 AM
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Re: ProFunction and Kinsler Present: Epic All Motor Bseries Manifold Testing
You have to be fukking kidding me!!! Thats not possible!
~300 out of an all-motor B-series is crazy.
Wed night should be interesting. Maybe i'll join the fun if thats cool.
I don't even want to imagine that car at Autobuhn or Gingerman.
~300 out of an all-motor B-series is crazy.
Wed night should be interesting. Maybe i'll join the fun if thats cool.
I don't even want to imagine that car at Autobuhn or Gingerman.
09-27-2010, 11:51 AM
#10
FSAE
Re: ProFunction and Kinsler Present: Epic All Motor Bseries Manifold Testing
That is really impressive! 
I would have also questioned the gains as you did, but with putting on other cars to verify the numbers, there isn't much else you can do besides go to another dyno.
Curious as to what cam timing you are running? I have a similar build (85x87.2, 12:1, Pro3's).
I would have also questioned the gains as you did, but with putting on other cars to verify the numbers, there isn't much else you can do besides go to another dyno.
Curious as to what cam timing you are running? I have a similar build (85x87.2, 12:1, Pro3's).
09-27-2010, 11:56 AM
#11
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Re: ProFunction and Kinsler Present: Epic All Motor Bseries Manifold Testing
I really wonder why they made so much more power than any other dynoed setup I've seen? absolutely NOT doubting, just trying to understand. In for track times!
09-27-2010, 11:57 AM
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Re: ProFunction and Kinsler Present: Epic All Motor Bseries Manifold Testing
Thanks for sharing all of the testing that you've been doing lately.. I can't wait to see how it does at the track. Looks like B series can still hold it's own.. around 300whp with off the shelf parts is simply amazing. If the track numbers back up the dyno it looks like Scott will be getting a lot more business. for a great guy willing to send out his product for testing and sharing the info with honda-tech.
for a great guy willing to send out his product for testing and sharing the info with honda-tech.
09-27-2010, 12:51 PM
#13
MEAT PATTY
Re: ProFunction and Kinsler Present: Epic All Motor Bseries Manifold Testing
Thats VERY impressive to say the least.
Its amazing how restrictive the other manifolds were considering the gains you made with the ITB's. It would also be interesting to see this setup with a custom header.
Its amazing how restrictive the other manifolds were considering the gains you made with the ITB's. It would also be interesting to see this setup with a custom header.
09-27-2010, 01:39 PM
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Re: ProFunction and Kinsler Present: Epic All Motor Bseries Manifold Testing
That is really impressive!
I would have also questioned the gains as you did, but with putting on other cars to verify the numbers, there isn't much else you can do besides go to another dyno.
Curious as to what cam timing you are running? I have a similar build (85x87.2, 12:1, Pro3's).
I would have also questioned the gains as you did, but with putting on other cars to verify the numbers, there isn't much else you can do besides go to another dyno.
Curious as to what cam timing you are running? I have a similar build (85x87.2, 12:1, Pro3's).
Pro3's degreed per cam card..
Stock thickness HG and unmilled head
I'd have to see the car but the farthest that it went on cam gears was 1.5 degrees either way. I have a little room to play with them, but its the least of my worries at this point. It ended up claying real nicely with those settings.
09-27-2010, 01:39 PM
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09-27-2010, 01:42 PM
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Re: ProFunction and Kinsler Present: Epic All Motor Bseries Manifold Testing
What impresses me most is that it almost made 200wtq, and it definitely would make 200 tq at the crank. 100 ft/lbs per L is pretty damn good from an inline four that turns 9K.
Oh and as far as feeding the air horns, i suggest something like what I did, although with a scoop and maybe no filter.
edit: since I assume the angle on your throttle bodies is much steeper you could actually probably make it so that the top half of the air box sticks out of the hood
and thus the airbox/scoops is all one piece and the hood opens and closes around it.
Oh and as far as feeding the air horns, i suggest something like what I did, although with a scoop and maybe no filter.
edit: since I assume the angle on your throttle bodies is much steeper you could actually probably make it so that the top half of the air box sticks out of the hood
and thus the airbox/scoops is all one piece and the hood opens and closes around it.
09-27-2010, 01:49 PM
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Re: ProFunction and Kinsler Present: Epic All Motor Bseries Manifold Testing
It goes to show you what happens when you use properly sized, well constructed, high quality ITB's. Most people think you can just throw a set of ITb's on a car and it'll make power. In this case, proper size and design is everything.
09-27-2010, 02:03 PM
#23
Honda-Tech Member
Re: ProFunction and Kinsler Present: Epic All Motor Bseries Manifold Testing
Looks like its time to sell my TWM 50mm setup,we where only talking about redesigning some inlet manifolds yesterday now I will just buy a setup off Kinsler.
09-27-2010, 02:05 PM
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Re: ProFunction and Kinsler Present: Epic All Motor Bseries Manifold Testing
What type of feed system was used? It doesnt look like top feed from the vid.
09-27-2010, 02:07 PM
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Re: ProFunction and Kinsler Present: Epic All Motor Bseries Manifold Testing
Fuel feed is a basic -6 line adapted to the -8 rail w/ 725cc ID injectors. The car runs on e85.