engine problems after track day

[offcamber]

2000 integra LS 130,000 miles 22-26 mpg burns oil, but not that much about 1.5-2 quarts an oil change engine mods-long tube intake with a K&N filter on the end just did a fresh oil change with mobil-1 5w-30. oil was above maximun hole on dip stick when i left for the roadcourse but the oil did have a little color to it. i did one ~20min session and the top end ticking got just a little louder than normal. let it cool off and checked the oil...from what i could tell the oil level was ok but it was hard to tell. I went back out on track and the top end started making more noise...but my lap times were dropping ;-) . I let the car sit for ~30-45min. Tried to start it but i kept dying right when it started firing. I finally got it to started with libral use of the throttle. I let off the gas and it died. Tried that a few more times and finally the car idled on its own. Shut the car down and checked the oil; barely on the dip stick. PCV valve is 6 months old and rattled just fine. Added some conventional 10w-30 till it went back to the max hole on the dip stick. started the car again but without the oil cap on. you could put your hand about 4 inches above the opening and feel the puffs of blow-by...drove the car home. started it up the next morning on first crank and had a high idle (1500rpm). drove it around and the idle came back down to 7-8 hundred. -How long can i expect the motor to last for? -autocross without much more harm? -does mixing synthetic and conventional matter (i plan on just adding cheap convensional as it gets burnt off)? -will driving the car cause any more damage than what it has now with regard to possibly rebuilding it? In other words will winging it and letting the motor blow make rebuilding a lot more expensive or impossible? -cheapest method of starting over while still being very reliable (b20z, rebuild b18b)?

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[nsxtasy]

Originally Posted by offcamber

-does mixing synthetic and conventional matter

No, and you can do so. You just won't get the benefits of synthetic to the extent that you have conventional rather than synthetic. However, to the extent that your engine may be getting extra hot because of its problems, you might be better off with the extra protection against breakdown that full synthetic offers, at least until you figure out what the problems are and what you're going to do about them.

[Stinkycheezmonky]

I take it you don't have an oil pressure gauge? Going through a quart of oil in one session is pretty bad, and if you couldn't find any significant leaks I'd guess your rings are going out or something. Tapping head could mean a valve adjustment, but the oil problem makes me think otherwise.

To your questions (that I can answer):

-Continuing to drive the car to the point of blowing the motor, yes, that will most likely ruin it. Depending on what the problem is, you could spin a bearing and ruin the crank (eh, maybe), put a piston through the block, gauge the cylinder walls, chew up the head, etc. If you decide to go that route, do so accepting that you could completely blow it up.

-Cheapest method of starting over would be either a local Craigslist/HT classifieds motor (questionable), or the $750 shipped B20B from PasswordJDM. Rebuild...not sure what current prices are, but you'd probably need bearings for the bottom end, rings at a minimum with a hone (more likely a re-bore, pistons, and rings with that high mileage), various gaskets. When I was faced with the same thing a few years ago, I went the rebuild route. I wound up saving only a little bit of money and got lucky on the rebuild (hasn't blown up yet), but will almost definitely go the route of a new block when it comes up again.

[offcamber]

Originally Posted by Stinkycheezmonky

I take it you don't have an oil pressure gauge? Going through a quart of oil in one session is pretty bad, and if you couldn't find any significant leaks I'd guess your rings are going out or something. Tapping head could mean a valve adjustment, but the oil problem makes me think otherwise.

-Cheapest method of starting over would be either a local Craigslist/HT classifieds motor (questionable), or the $750 shipped B20B from PasswordJDM.

valves were adjusted a few thousand miles ago to the limit of the specs for as much lift as possible.

Is the b20b, or b20z for that matter a plug and play thing with the ECU. Can i just drop it in and the car runs like stock? I hear talk of putting on my LS intake manifold; will that make a difference?

When you say it cost a little less to rebuild, are you factoring in the cost of doing the timing belt, water pump, etc. on the b20? I've "heard" you should replace all those things when buying a used motor...though i suppose i'd do that to my motor too.

thanks

[Stinkycheezmonky]

If you swap all the sensors (depending on if you're running OBDI or OBDII) it'll run absolutely the same. You will most likely need to swap the intake manifold because the B20 manifold will most likely stick up too far and hit the hood (though I've heard it can fit depending on the chassis). I don't remember if it'll make that big of a difference in power, I only remember people doing it for fitment issues.

Rebuild costs, if you'd replace timing belt, water pump, etc. on a new motor, you should be doing it with the rebuild anyway, so the cost would be the same in either situation. If I bought a new block, I'd definitely look at the timing belt and replace it if necessary, and would most likely put in an ITR oil pump to be safe. I am not the greatest when it comes to regular maintenance though, so take that with a grain of salt. It would probably be best to just play it safe and replace everything while you're in there.

[Lo-Buck EF]

buy a new engine from a jdm engine spot, do the tbalt water pump bit, slap a baffled oil pan on it and drop it in. less headache.

[offcamber]

Who are the REPUTABLE engine sellers out there? Stinky mentioned passwordJDM, and i've heard good things about Hmotorsonline.com. Any others?

Password only has the b20b, and so does Hmotors. I'm concerned because that motor has 16 less HP than my LS motor. I could go with the b18b(94-98) Hmotors has but if i could find a b20z for the same price...

How does the b20b compare to the b18b in terms of usable power for autocross/track days (stock for stock)?

[Stinkycheezmonky]

Hmotors and PasswordJDM are the only places I'll buy from. There are enough shady shops that I'm willing to pay a little bit of a premium for a guarantee on quality.

They're practically the same (B18B and B20B) after you factor in the differences in intake and exhaust manifolds. Minor variations in cam profiles, but I haven't seen any good comparison or comprehensive list of those differences. Finding a B20Z from a reputable shop will be next to impossible.

Also note that some places might say they're selling the JDM B20B, and that it's equivalent to a B20Z...but they really can't guarantee that. There were so many variations of the B20B that the block code didn't specify. You could get lucky and get the P8R head, Z-pistons, or both, but unless the block SAYS B20Z (and is unopened) you won't have any idea until you open it up.

[RED_90TEG]

y do u use 5-30 oil ? explain please..seems like u dont take very good care of ur motor..

[offcamber]

Originally Posted by RED_90TEG

y do u use 5-30 oil ? explain please..seems like u dont take very good care of ur motor..

Originally Posted by offcamber

just did a fresh oil change with mobil-1 5w-30. oil was above maximun hole on dip stick when i left for the roadcourse but the oil did have a little color to it.

It helps to read the original post..try working on your grammar. Oh, and yes I do take very good care of my motor. But then I go beat on it for good measure.

So i did a compression test on the motor:
norn-199psi
min-135psi
max variation-28psi

cyl 1=180psi
cyl 2=170psi
cyl 3=180psi
cyl 4=175psi

I also noticed that the hose going from the intake to the valve over popped off. I'm not sure when this happened as it was dark when we were looking at the motor at the track.

[Stinkycheezmonky]

Originally Posted by offcamber

..try working on your grammar.

RED_90 with the grammar police again, LOL

[RED_90TEG]

Originally Posted by offcamber

It helps to read the original post..try working on your grammar. Oh, and yes I do take very good care of my motor. But then I go beat on it for good measure.

So i did a compression test on the motor:
norn-199psi
min-135psi
max variation-28psi

cyl 1=180psi
cyl 2=170psi
cyl 3=180psi
cyl 4=175psi

I also noticed that the hose going from the intake to the valve over popped off. I'm not sure when this happened as it was dark when we were looking at the motor at the track.

lol good luck buddy next time use 10-40 oil not 5-30 on such a old motor

[Calif_Kid]

Originally Posted by Stinkycheezmonky

Hmotors and PasswordJDM are the only places I'll buy from. There are enough shady shops that I'm willing to pay a little bit of a premium for a guarantee on quality.

Stinky - I was looking and saw the following website http://www.jdmtigerjapanese.com/auto...y=35&query=271 I don't need an engine, but are they reputable? I didn't compare prices to the other websites, but just wondering if they're reputable. - Jim

[Stinkycheezmonky]

They are NOT reputable! There have a been a lot of people who have had serious issues with them.

See here:
http://www.hondamarketplace.com/show...=tigerjapanese
http://www.hondamarketplace.com/show...=tigerjapanese

[Calif_Kid]

Originally Posted by Stinkycheezmonky

They are NOT reputable! There have a been a lot of people who have had serious issues with them.

See here:
http://www.hondamarketplace.com/show...=tigerjapanese
http://www.hondamarketplace.com/show...=tigerjapanese

Stinky - many thanks for the info about them. I took a quick look at the first thread, and they definitely don't sound like a good company to deal with. Thanks!! - Jim

[offcamber]

So apparently the lock nuts that hold the valve adjuster bolts in place need to actually be on the bolt to work...yes that was plural. Found two up top, but i'm still looking for the other one. I hope its in the oil pan and i can drain it out along with the oil. This brings me to my next question. Is 10w-40 really the way to go for the mileage and condition of my motor? Also has anyone lock-tited their lock nuts?

[Stinkycheezmonky]

Do NOT lock-tite those nuts.

[offcamber]

Originally Posted by Stinkycheezmonky

Do NOT lock-tite those nuts.

Though i don't doubt your assertion, what's the tech behind it?

[Stinkycheezmonky]

You need to do periodic valve adjustments, and as you know now, the relative torque on those little buggers is pretty important. To me at least, both of those = no lock-tite. I was also told to not lock-tite them by people with more knowledge/experience, though I don't necessarily know their logic behind it.

[offcamber]

Originally Posted by Stinkycheezmonky

You need to do periodic valve adjustments, and as you know now, the relative torque on those little buggers is pretty important. To me at least, both of those = no lock-tite. I was also told to not lock-tite them by people with more knowledge/experience, though I don't necessarily know their logic behind it.

thanks

specs are 0.003-.005 for the valve lash(intake). 0.006-0.008 for exhaust. The last time i adjusted the lash i did 0.003 and 0.006 in order to get more lift and to extend the time the lash is in spec due to the fact that the lash only gets looser with mileage. What i am concerned about though is when i autocross it and possibly track it again that the metal will heat up more than normal and cause the valve to stay partly open. Is there any validity to this "theory"?

[Stinkycheezmonky]

I don't understand what you mean there. Like the valve will heat up, expand, and not fit properly in the valve seat? If so, no, I don't think there's validity to it. I've certainly never heard of it, and it doesn't make any sense to me from a physics or engineering standpoint. Doesn't necessarily mean I'm right, but...

[keithg]

Originally Posted by Stinkycheezmonky

Also note that some places might say they're selling the JDM B20B, and that it's equivalent to a B20Z...but they really can't guarantee that.

I will guess that Steve at H-motors will guarantee it since he is charging more for the high compression JDM B20B versus the low compression one.
I believe he's got it figured out how to tell the difference.

[Stinkycheezmonky]

Not that I doubt Steve, but I'd want confirmation of that. There has been some misunderstanding over what labels a motor as the high compression one in the past.

It looks like he's defining the '99-00 models as the higher compression models, and last I checked that wasn't necessarily an indicator. I can't find the damn B20B vs. B20Z comparison thread though.