Healthcare reform today!!

[importboi22]

I know they are voting on it today. But does anyone really know whats in the bill yet? I have read some portions of H.R. 3200 but seriously its Dizzying the amount of stuff in there. http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h3200/text it has around 400,000 words in there. What are some of your findings in there that you did/didn't like? possibly didn't like----------- (2) START-UP FUNDING- (A) IN GENERAL- In order to provide for the establishment of the public health insurance option there is hereby appropriated to the Secretary, out of any funds in the Treasury not otherwise appropriated, $2,000,000,000. In order to provide for initial claims reserves before the collection of premiums, there is hereby appropriated to the Secretary, out of any funds in the Treasury not otherwise appropriated, such sums as necessary to cover 90 days worth of claims reserves based on projected enrollment. Now are they saying they can't or can use up to 2 trillion in start-up funding? edit.... noticed it said 2 billion did like------------------ SEC. 246. NO FEDERAL PAYMENT FOR UNDOCUMENTED ALIENS. Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States. I do like this because if you are not paying taxes I don't think you should qualify for any gov't programs. Anyways guys lets try to keep this civil and please... NO DEMS vs. REPS debates or attacks. I merely want this thread to inform and find more info out about the bill. I am studying for my classes so I will check back periodically.

This ad is not displayed to registered or logged-in members. Register your free account today and become a member on Honda-Tech!

[FrreeeBird]

It wrecks anyone who makes a decent wage or runs a small business. If you're poor or jobless it gives you something you haven't earned.

Socialism FTL.

[Twixle]

OP you ****ing fail at reading. The first part you posted specified 2 BILLION dollars, not trillion. The second part you posted states "NO federal payment for undocumented aliens"



oh, and

[importboi22]

Originally Posted by FrreeeBird

It wrecks anyone who makes a decent wage or runs a small business. If you're poor or jobless it gives you something you haven't earned.

Socialism FTL.

trust me, if anyone doesn't want it to pass its my parents as they are small-business owners here in SoCal. Although they already have a healthcare plan established for all employees at their office. Of which I am included and I pay around 90ish/mo

But the question is; what does this plan actually cover? How does it go about covering them? What are the premiums/coverage plans?

And please don't answer by saying.... by taxing small-business and taxes. What are the exact outlines?

I think by answering the questions in a more solid answer then besides always being vague like the news is, we can have a more solid opinion.

[importboi22]

Originally Posted by Twixle

OP you ****ing fail at reading. The first part you posted specified 2 BILLION dollars, not trillion. The second part you posted states "NO federal payment for undocumented aliens"



oh, and

hey I have had my nose in an anatomy book for the last four hours..... give me damn break.

This is what this post is for, for people to understand it better. I am not good at understanding all these legal terms like this. (although hammer on me for that I took a business law class)
Maybe people can better summarize/help understand this bill, besides reading skewed news sources.

[jond]

In the past, your employeer pays for your healthcare. You pay 0%
In the future, YOU pay for your healthcare(through taxes). You pay 120%*

IMO, this is a con job to steal from the middle class.


*extra 20% is because you're also paying for other peoples health care as well as your own.

[importboi22]

Originally Posted by jond

In the past, your employeer pays for your healthcare. You pay 0%
In the future, YOU pay for your healthcare(through taxes). You pay 120%*

IMO, this is a con job to steal from the middle class.


*extra 20% is because you're also paying for other peoples health care as well as your own.

thats what I heard so far and my understanding goes like this

Gov't negotiates premiums
Employer contributes to paying premium through taxes
Employee contributes based on income
Employee receives healthcare

Now for big businesses the cost won't be to difficult because they have large budgets, but for small business per say less than 25 employees the cost will be quiet large.

Ok back to studying before I goto work at 530~1am

[jond]

Originally Posted by importboi22

thats what I heard so far and my understanding goes like this

Gov't negotiates premiums
Employer contributes to paying premium through taxes
Employee contributes based on income
Employee receives healthcare

Now for big businesses the cost won't be to difficult because they have large budgets, but for small business per say less than 25 employees the cost will be quiet large.

But if you're an employeer, why offer health insurance at all if it's free?
Why spent THAT much money when it's no longer a huge benifit.
I give it 5 years before the government option is the ONLY option.

[Blackpin93]

Originally Posted by FrreeeBird

It wrecks anyone who makes a decent wage or runs a small business. If you're poor or jobless it gives you something you haven't earned.

Socialism FTL.

That's not really fair to some of us. I'm not poor, but not much above the line either. I only make $11, and I'm not going to quit my job and try to find something else, that I probably won't make as much at. I'm glad to have a job right now. However, I haven't been there long enough to qualify for the company insurance, which is 200 a month, considering I only make 1500 a month, it's kinda steep.

A few weeks ago I ended up in the ER because my throat was swelling, long story short, it turned out to be severe anxiety, got put on Xanax. I now have a $900 bill for sitting in a room for 3 hours and talking to a doctor for about 5 minutes, then being told it's all in my head and sent off with a script. I make "too much" to qualify for the hospital's assistance plan, though I am filling out the app they sent anyhow with my first payment on the bill.

Not all of us are blessed with high paying jobs at the moment, hell some of us are happy just to have an income. I do work hard, I pay my taxes, and it would've been nice to get some assistance, even just a little, for my bill. I was afraid I was dying, and I had to go...now I'm stuck with this huge bill. I told myself I didn't care how much it would cost, it's my health you know? But still, you know I was stressed when I received the bill in the mail.

I agree that this program should be only for those of us who work and pay taxes though.

[Stealthmode Performance]

First things first. You don't pay any taxes. At $11/hr you don't make enough to have a federal income tax liability.

Second, it seems you have an issue with the cost, which everyone should. Handing the whole thing to the government so they can throw other peoples' money at it isn't going to fix the cost. Furthermore, the high cost of even your care is a result of others getting care for free, and the hospitals/insurer trying to recoup the costs. The same thing you seem to be in favor of.

[Blackpin93]

Originally Posted by Stealthmode Performance

First things first. You don't pay any taxes. At $11/hr you don't make enough to have a federal income tax liability.

Second, it seems you have an issue with the cost, which everyone should. Handing the whole thing to the government so they can throw other peoples' money at it isn't going to fix the cost. Furthermore, the high cost of even your care is a result of others getting care for free, and the hospitals/insurer trying to recoup the costs. The same thing you seem to be in favor of.

I didn't necessarily say for free, I said maybe some help would've been nice, or a reduction in the cost.

Still, just because that is how much I make, you can't compare me to someone sitting around doing nothing or on unemployment or welfare. I work 40 hours a week, I buy things - therefore I do something for society.

[importboi22]

Originally Posted by Blackpin93

I didn't necessarily say for free, I said maybe some help would've been nice, or a reduction in the cost.

Still, just because that is how much I make, you can't compare me to someone sitting around doing nothing or on unemployment or welfare. I work 40 hours a week, I buy things - therefore I do something for society.

I do agree that there needs to be some sort of help for the people just above the poverty level, perhaps some sort of reduction and pay-as-you go type deal.

Based on 1040's of the previous year and current paycheck stubs.

[The Notorious Frosty]

The only federal program that makes sense to me is legitimate insurance (I.E. it works like auto insurance) current health insurance is used improperly and NOT as insurance. I would be okay with a policy that covered every U.S. citizen BUT had a $5,000 annual deductible.

This method would avoid taxing the shit out of all of the U.S. citizens, but would still be enough to cover those with really bad luck. Then all of those stories about "My medical bills bankrupted me" wouldn't happen.

[smithenhiven]

I think it's rediculous that there will be a government mandate, stating that all US citizens MUST have health insurance, and if you don't, you'll face tax penalties.

I'm 26, I consider myself healthy. I don't have health insurance, not because I can't afford it, but because I don't find any value in having it right now. Why should I pay premiums on something I don't use? Sure, I realize I'm taking a risk, should something major happen, but that's a risk I'm willing to take right now.

But now the government wants to force me to purchase something I otherwise wouldn't. So what's next? What will the government tell me I MUST purchase? A "G"overnment "M"otors vehicle? That will sure boost domestic car sales. And if I don't, perhaps I'll face a tax penalty.

So at the end of the day, I just got hit with a tax increase, which Obama promised he would not do to earners of $250K or less like myself. Liar.

[RB2]

Originally Posted by smithenhiven

I think it's rediculous that there will be a government mandate, stating that all US citizens MUST have health insurance, and if you don't, you'll face tax penalties.

I'm 26, I consider myself healthy. I don't have health insurance, not because I can't afford it, but because I don't find any value in having it right now. Why should I pay premiums on something I don't use? Sure, I realize I'm taking a risk, should something major happen, but that's a risk I'm willing to take right now.

But now the government wants to force me to purchase something I otherwise wouldn't. So what's next? What will the government tell me I MUST purchase? A "G"overnment "M"otors vehicle? That will sure boost domestic car sales. And if I don't, perhaps I'll face a tax penalty.

So at the end of the day, I just got hit with a tax increase, which Obama promised he would not do to earners of $250K or less like myself. Liar.

You're saying that now, but the minute guys like you get severely injured and you don't have the insurance you always come crying to everyone else to pick up the pieces and we're sick of it. This way you're forced to look after your own back yard.

[smithenhiven]

Originally Posted by RB2

You're saying that now, but the minute guys like you get severely injured and you don't have the insurance you always come crying to everyone else to pick up the pieces and we're sick of it. This way you're forced to look after your own back yard.

Like I said, if I choose not to purchase health insurance, that's a risk I'm willing to take onto myself. If something major happens and my medical bills bankrupt me, then it that affects me.

But you would rather me hop on the "public option", pay the cost of such; now I'm "looking after my own back yard" right. So what happens then when something major happens to me? Now instead of it being my problem, my problem is now every tax payers problem, because now they're forced to "pick up my pieces".

So would you rather hear and then become sick of my cries, and simply view me as a victim of my own choices; or would you rather be forced to deal with my problems through increased taxes?

[bluebomber]

Originally Posted by smithenhiven

I think it's rediculous that there will be a government mandate, stating that all US citizens MUST have health insurance, and if you don't, you'll face tax penalties... So at the end of the day, I just got hit with a tax increase, which Obama promised he would not do to earners of $250K or less like myself. Liar.

I have health insurance, but I agree with you 100%. No one should be forced to buy insurance. I also have my own small business, and I DO NOT want to have to pay a penalty if I decide not to offer insurance to my employees (I currently do not because it is more than double the price for me to offer than it is for my workers to get it themselves.)

This bill is evil. We should focus on being able to buy insurance across state lines instead of this monstrosity of a health care bill. It will only make us pay MORE.

[Akuma]

one of the sections stipulates that the universal healthcare plan is mandatory after a certain date, and if you don't sign up, you can be fined or jailed. if you aggressively evade, you get slapped with a felony and $250,000 fine.

it also says that people who are currently paying for their own private insurance plans have to switch to the public option when anything in their current plan changes.

In the next 15 years, everyone inside America, including illegal aliens, will be in the universal pool, or in jail.

[DaveSI99]

Well those that wanted "change" there you go. Get ready to pay more taxes so that EVERYONE can have healthcare.

[General Kills]

I financially support a lobbyist group that is against health reform, but I don't have the drive to read the bill myself. It will end up raising taxes for all - It will be broke just like SS, Medicare, Post Office, and just about every other gov't sponsored program - It is socialism at it's finest.

One thing is for sure after all of this. Obama will not be reelected in 2012..absolutely WILL NOT!

[accord95vtec]

late night cspan....great job on sneaking it in on a saturday night when ppl are for once not glued to their TVs.

[DaveSI99]

Originally Posted by General Kills

I financially support a lobbyist group that is against health reform, but I don't have the drive to read the bill myself. It will end up raising taxes for all - It will be broke just like SS, Medicare, Post Office, and just about every other gov't sponsored program - It is socialism at it's finest.

One thing is for sure after all of this. Obama will not be reelected in 2012..absolutely WILL NOT!

Well said!

[IP RACING]

I am disappointed it passed. I really don't want to believe it. Government rule. DO NOT WANT!

[bluebomber]

It still has to pass the Senate. They haven't won yet.

[Blackpin93]

Originally Posted by smithenhiven

I think it's rediculous that there will be a government mandate, stating that all US citizens MUST have health insurance, and if you don't, you'll face tax penalties.

I'm 26, I consider myself healthy. I don't have health insurance, not because I can't afford it, but because I don't find any value in having it right now. Why should I pay premiums on something I don't use? Sure, I realize I'm taking a risk, should something major happen, but that's a risk I'm willing to take right now.

But now the government wants to force me to purchase something I otherwise wouldn't. So what's next? What will the government tell me I MUST purchase? A "G"overnment "M"otors vehicle? That will sure boost domestic car sales. And if I don't, perhaps I'll face a tax penalty.

So at the end of the day, I just got hit with a tax increase, which Obama promised he would not do to earners of $250K or less like myself. Liar.

I also disagree with the mandate.

I'm only 24, and I used to feel the same way as you...why buy it? I hadn't been to the hospital in 7 years, and that was for an allergic reaction to ibuprofen. But when my anxiety crept up on me, it was out of nowhere and all of the sudden I'm dealing with the ER bill, have to start seeing a doctor about the meds, and buying the meds themselves (that's not so bad, but still is a cost). Plus as I get older, I realize I"m gonna have to start getting tests done here and there. Hell you just never know. If my company had a more reasonable price, like say 100 a month, I'd go for it. I'm gonna have to look around.