K series Preludes?

[NirVTEC]

Originally Posted by KreLude Too add, please if you have any corrections for info I have supplied, correct me. I don't know as much as a lot of people here and can easily get #'s flip flopped. I spend a lot of time with my posts/replies, so I feel like it should be right, but who knows. Mistakes happen, and bad info is a reason I have stayed away from the forums as much as I have. Although my searches haven't turned up much K-Prelude info. Looks like I am going to have to rely on "others" K series reasearch and the few that have done Prelude/Accord Ks to help with the install. Something you'll learn fast here, people will never have a problem correcting you, even if its with more incorrect info.......Or to suggest incorrect info rather than your correct info, just because they think they know a thing or 2. AFAIK the info you have is correct in regards to the "desired" K24s and K20s. I wonder if the K20A-R head would even be worth finding/using if you intend on doing headwork/cams anyway. I think another thing that people may like about the K block is being able to use forged pistons w/o sleeving it or gambling with Mahles. Being that you're planning a ground up build, you don't really need to buy the most efficient stock components. i.e. Using a K20A-R head on a K24A2 block, which appears to be the best OEM setup you could throw together.

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[KreLude]

This didn't end too well. There were many valid points in there but wow, people get bent in the H vs K and Prelude vs civic debate. It reminds me of the old Honda vs DSM debates. It usually ended with; So how many N/A DSMs are rocking out there or lets go see how your GST/GSX handles on the HWY.
http://honda-tech.com/showthread.php...ht=cam+phasing

I have to agree though, when you 1st start pricing a K series, its overwhelming. You go to Hmotorsonline and see a K24 for $1100-1900 that still needs a K20 head/trans and other things to make it work. You also see a K20 for $4-5500.
I am definitely counting on finding some deals for this build, but you can't always find them. Some people have countless hours to spend online searching, some people don't. Sometimes you just have to pay up for the right stuff. My friends K20 CRX was pieced together with leftovers, deals from wrecks, broke kids that needed money. He has no problem admitting he would've spent about twice as much had those deals NOT been out there.
There are some parts of this build I am NOT willing to buy used; Cams, Crank, Rods, Pistons. Of course I would love to find a used SSR-DTR header, K-Pro, ITBs. I'm not going to buy a new block or head either. The cheaper the better.
And I'm sorry, I still can't get over the fact that I can get a K24 crank from Honda for $200.

so are there any other options for K tuning besides Hondata K-Pro?

[KreLude]

All with a grain of salt. It is definitely a pain sorting through threads.

BTW; "117" The 09+ TSX is 11:1cr, so that would be the "best" stock platform to start with. K24Z3.
I guess I have been reading some older threads. There are a couple K24s that are 10.5:1 stock.
It seems like even plopping a K20A head onto a stock K24@10.5:1cr is producing some great #'s as well. I am routinely seeing TQ #'s close to the 200 mark. Who knows with all these crazy dynos out there though. Even dynojets can be off by 10% from each other.

[BlackCatt]

Best of luck on your long term project. A k in a prelude would be an
awesome achievement. Good luck with the parts hunting.

[KreLude]

Originally Posted by BlackCatt

Best of luck on your long term project. A k in a prelude would be an
awesome achievement. Good luck with the parts hunting.

Its going to take some patience for sure. I have time though. My original plan was to start building an H this winter, now I just have to wait a little longer.
Thanks for the words of encouragement. I will probably only post this in here because I just don't have the patience to listen to kids telling me how I should swap this built K into a Civic and run 10s with it. I bought a Prelude well over 10yrs ago for a reason.

NirVTEC; I am trying to ignore the Demon that IS Nitrous! I just don't really have a need/use for it on the roadcourse, and my days of street stalking for a race are long gone after my drivers license issues.

[NirVTEC]

Originally Posted by KreLude

NirVTEC; I am trying to ignore the Demon that IS Nitrous! I just don't really have a need/use for it on the roadcourse, and my days of street stalking for a race are long gone after my drivers license issues.

I hear you. Although I did use a 75 shot at AutoBahn one time! I picked up 10mph on the front straight and almost gave my student a heart-attack.
Good idea to stay away from the Civic/Integra crowd.

I'm just glad you have seen the light with displacement though. The idea of using a K20 in a Prelude is STILL ridiculous. No built K20 setup could compete with a built H22 setup. $ for $ and HP for HP. Well, maybe if you bought a stolen motor. There are plenty out there, and almost as many kids rocking stolen motors/parts that don't even know about it.
If the deal seems too good to be true, its probably stolen.
SUPPORT LOCAL SHOPS whenever you can.
I have some inside info on local shops I will PM you.

[Rosko]

What needs to be done with the header situation? Would you have to custom make one?

[KreLude]

I haven't gotten that far into it yet. I assumed I would call SSR-DTR when I was 4-6mo from getting this thing running.
I can't say I am set on them, but if I did it right now, I would go that route. Who knows what the future holds. I know SSR-DTR HyTech & SMSP have worked wonders for the H world, and I assume the same in regards to the Ks.
Do you have other suggestions for me? This will need to be something big that will support over 300whp. I wouldn't be ready to buy it for some time though. 1st priority is to buy a block/sleeve and/or other deals that come my way.

[A Blue Lude]

Originally Posted by Rosko

What needs to be done with the header situation? Would you have to custom make one?

Off the shelf is fine I believe. There is a lot of room back there.

[NirVTEC]

Originally Posted by A Blue Lude

Off the shelf is fine I believe. There is a lot of room back there.

Do companies really stock something for a setup like this?
I would bank on it taking some time, I think you have the right idea with 4-6mo to be safe.
Anything car related always seem to take longer than it should. You may also be able to find someone else that is making the "Hot-Setup" in the future......A lot can happen in 2-3yrs with advances.
I think the real issue you will find is nobody compares these RACE headers.......You will find the fanbois that claim that the header they have is best, just because they have it.
I'd be shocked if there was more than a 3-5whp difference between Hytech-DTR-SMSP.

[H22Honda98]

this is awesome to hear man. I love when people change things up on a prelude. I'm in the process of an F22B DOHC nonvtec turbo build on my 5th gen mostly for that reason. I hope the K series is the future with preludes. just imagine when K series setups can be had for under $3k! ha 10 years and counting...

Good luck on the build, i bet it lays down great power.

[NirVTEC]

Originally Posted by H22Honda98

. just imagine when K series setups can be had for under $3k! ha 10 years and counting...

Its NOT too far off if you don't mind NOT having a trans!
After reading this thread a couple times now, I can't believe people actually buy K20s from Hmotorsonline[nothing against HMO] for $4-5500.

[Rosko]

Originally Posted by NirVTEC

Its NOT too far off if you don't mind NOT having a trans!
After reading this thread a couple times now, I can't believe people actually buy K20s from Hmotorsonline[nothing against HMO] for $4-5500.

X2, haha I thought this was interesting...

http://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com/...+BLOCK-OIL+PAN

New k24 block from honda for $600.. damn if you were using aftermarket rods/pistons anyways this may be the way to go! I know an H block from Honda is ~$2500 last time I checked. Might not be worth it after you buy all the little bits and pieces but still as far as replacing parts goes the K stuff seems pretty cheap.

[SlimBB4]

to the OP: sounds like you have some good plans so far. i am also putting a k in my 4th gen. i already have a complete k24 out of an 06 accord. i am in the process of trying to get a k20a2 head and tsx 6 speed tranny locally. once i do that i plan on just doing acl bearings, rods, and 11.5:1 pistons. port and polished head, upgraded valve train, cams and cam gears. i/h/e, clutch and flywheel. it will probably take me 2-3 years to actually get it into the lude so i have a similar time frame to you.

goodluck
_zac

[NirVTEC]

So how are these K transmissions when they are abused? I know my friends K20 trans has had some issues and he only makes ~250whp.

[PirateMcFred]

Originally Posted by KreLude

I may have to take this build elsewhere or just keep it to myself like I have in the past.
I already see where this thread is going.
And people wonder why I have had a Prelude for 10yrs+ and never lurked online except for info and ordering.

I find it's easy to ignore the idiots that swear by one tin can over another. If it gets out of hand solicit a moderator to throw down the ban hammer and weed out the BS posts. The Prelude forum needs decent/new build threads to restore the ratio of "fix my crap" threads to quality threads. It's your thread, rule it with an iron fist.

You asked earlier about a K24Z3 from the newer K-series fleet. Don't use it keep to 2006 and older. Honda's doing weird things to exhaust ports on the newer engines:



The camshafts are also shorter and incompatible with older K-series engines despite having agressive profiles. Katman sent me a K24Z3 intake cam a while back to see about making a custom shim to retrofit older Ks and it's about 8mm short on the cam chain side and the exhaust side does not support the über 3 lobe VTEC system.



I'd source a K24 shortblock and a K20A2 or K20Z1 head and splice them together. Those parts are relatively easy to come by. If you're talking years to assemble the enigne to the spec you want then it might also be a good idea to keep an eye out for Endyn's custom K-series cast head. While it's months overdue for delivery the prices/flow rates on a "stock" casting were as good as many mild ported Honda PRB castings.

CFM pic:


Again, just beat on the jerks that want to ruin your thread and let the good times roll.

-P

[KreLude]

Originally Posted by PirateMcFred

Again, just beat on the jerks that want to ruin your thread and let the good times roll.

-P

Thanks for the info Pirate.
I sent a message to vinuneuro, hopefully he can clean this thread up, if NOT I will just start a new thread once I actually begin this build.
I have a lead on a used 06 RSX-S head that my friend is going to look into, its from an engine that the bottom end blew up on, so it should be good. This may be my 1st piece. I am going to wait on the Cams/Header until I get closer to the end.
I am going to say Summer 2012 at this point.

[KreLude]

Originally Posted by Acidcrakker

Plus 1.

Posting on a public board opens you up to all types of criticism on any idea you might have, good or bad.

Well, I guess the good thing is nobody can convince me NOT to build this motor & put it into a Prelude, although I am completely open to advice from people that know what they're talking about. The Cyber-Haters will always be around.
I have just ignored them for years by not posting. I thought I would try h-t on to see how it goes.

I'm still waiting for that guy with the K20 Prelude(that was crashed) to get back to me so he can tell me how he used a K20 trans. I can't seem to find any info on this, and Hasport has told me I can only use a K24 Accord/TSX trans, or the K20A EuroR trans. While the Accord/TSX trans is easy to find, the EuroR I am assuming won't be as easy. Much like the H22 EuroR!
My 1st idea was to use the Accord/TSX trans with an M Factory Final Drive.

[Rosko]

Did you try and get ahold of Scott aka 2point6? (aka Collective Racing)

He did the swap in an Accord and could probably give you an earful of advice.

[KreLude]

Originally Posted by Rosko

Did you try and get ahold of Scott aka 2point6? (aka Collective Racing)

He did the swap in an Accord and could probably give you an earful of advice.

I am going to be in touch with him before attempting any assembly of this setup. I am debating having KING do the shortblock build for me.
I just don't have the time or resources to do it, and do it right the 1st time. They seem like they know a thing or 2 about Hondas.

[NirVTEC]

Originally Posted by KreLude

They seem like they know a thing or 2 about Hondas.

You think? I would put a motor they built against anything from another shop in this country, or world for that matter.
A lot of haters over the years have claimed that they only have a name b/c they're the only Mugen distr in N.A. & they're expensive. You can bet a motor built by them will be done right the 1st time.
Scott and his crew are stand up guys that know what they're doing. Hirotoshi Honda seems to think so, he's got a in my book.

[vinuneuro]

This thread isn't even half the length of what it was once all the useless banter has been removed. If you don't have anything constructive to add, stay the f*uck out.

Some of you who didn't post anything wrong may have had some deleted because they contained quotes of the offenders. Don't feel bad.

[SergEK]

Fight the good fight man

I am thankful the H2B issues have been solved and we can move forward with rod shifted big block power.

I dont care for cable shifted transmissions and the 6spd units seem to have quite a few more issues than the 5spd K boxes.

I think a forged gear set, FD/pinion will be a must. The good news is you wont have to go dog box as MFactory will have/make forged gears if they dont already. I know they do for the B and their prices are very reasonable.

Edit: Just for knowing I looked up the stats on the ludes vs whats available right now

4th Gen 5th Gen 06+ Civic Si Current Gen Acc Coupe
Wheelbase 100 101.8 104.3 107.9
Length 174.8 178 174.8 190
Width 69.5 69 68.9 72.8
Height 50.8 51.8 53.5 56.4
Curb weight 2840 3042 2886 3175

[KreLude]

I'm already considering an M Factory FD and may have to look into the gears. Part of me just wants to use a stock trans to begin and see what happens. I can always build another on the side. Starting to give some thought to gearing is making my mind dizzy. I am still waiting for that K20 Prelude guy to get back to me, I have to guess he used a custom mount kit, b/c 2005-06 is Pre-Hasport Mount kit AFAIK.
Tire size is something I also have to consider as well as my available selection of fairly lightweight 17x8.5-9 wheels. I have already accepted the fact that is a 5 lug conversion.
At least with 17s I can look into some nice big brake setups as well.

Vinuneuro: Thank you so much for the cleanup.