Oil Temps

[SCoupe 5sp]

Originally Posted by Crazy4Honda who makes that cooler?? and whats that other cooler? power steering? do you find that the power steering cooler helps alot? Covered that in the first sentence: Originally Posted by SCoupe 5sp I've got a Mocal oil cooler on my B16A... The other cooler is for Power Steering. The ps fluid will boil without in road track use, running w/o it is not an option. .

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[Stinkycheezmonky]

Originally Posted by Crazy4Honda

So would having the oil tempo sender in the pan verses the Block/sandwich plate make any difference?

Like Jimmy said, the numbers you'd be comparing it to with other people would be off. My 240* at the pan does not = your 240* at the sandwich plate. I have no idea what the variance factor would be, but they won't be the same.

[Tage_Evanson]

Oil will go from the bottom of the oil pan via the oil pump pickup near the bottom of the pan. It will get pumped through the oil pump and get shot down the oil passage in the block to the oil filter. If the block/sandwitch plate doesn't have the factory oil cooler I think the temps would be very comparable.

If the factory oil cooler is still there I would expect the temps to be less than at the pan. How much less will depend on how well that factory oil cooler works. Car makers typically don't do stuff for looks so I'm sure the factory oil cooler works, it's just a matter of how effective it works, especially under racing conditions (which it likely wasn't designed for).

[Stinkycheezmonky]

It's been a LONG time, but from what I remember similar engines will give two different readings at those two locations. That data is pretty old in my brain though, and I have no idea how accurate the comparison was at the time, so take that with a pile of salt.

[Tage_Evanson]

That would make sense to me. I would stand behind my theory of:

No factory oil cooler = VERY close to the same temps

w/factory oil cooler = Less at the sandwitch adaptor (the amount will be equal to how much heat the engine coolant is able to remove)

[117]

It depends where in the adapter the sensor is mounted no? If it's at the outlet of the adapter (outlet going to the cooler), then the readings would be relatively similar, although there could be some slight cooling as it travels through the pump and whatnot as I'd expect the block to be cooler than the oil in the pan. If it's at the inlet of the adapter (inlet from the cooler), then obviously the temperature would be very different.

[Crazy4Honda]

well just did a auto x event after switching to a 10-40w oil and it seems to be holding up a little better, still got to wait till a full on track event to see actually what happenes

[tai_mishuu911]

what sandwich plate are you guys running?
I can't seem to find one to plumb -10 fittings and maybe a temperature sensor

[Andrie Hartanto]

Originally Posted by SCoupe 5sp

The other cooler is for Power Steering. The ps fluid will boil without in road track use, running w/o it is not an option.

In my K series, we don't need power steering cooler. I ran a cooler the first time and put a temp sensor. Found out I don't actually need it. Have been running without P.S. cooler for over 3 years. With electric pump and regular (stock) pump.

[court76wi]

Originally Posted by court76wi

At my last event I peaked about 260-265F and the outdoor temp was in the high 80s. Stock radiator and a Moroso 5.5 qt oil pan. 97 Integra GSR.

I purchased a used 94-95 GSR/ITR liquid oil cooler that I'm going to install this winter.

I like liquid coolers over air for two reasons...
1. You're not running oil lines all over the place.
2. A liquid oil cooler also helps the engine oil warm up faster, especially in cool weather.

Originally Posted by rice_classic

Street driven, yes... Race car, no.

Don't get that no comment...

[Stinkycheezmonky]

I think he was referring to the need to heat your oil up faster. Just start the car a few minutes before the session/race begins and you'll be fine.

[court76wi]

Oh, I do. But with even 10 minutes of fast idle in grid and 1 lap on track I was still below 160 degrees before the green flag at the last two events.

Oil takes quite a while to get up to optimum operating temps. Street driven cars can take 20-30 min before oil temps peak 180, even longer during fall/winter if it even gets that hot at all. Coolant temps are normal sure, but oil temps don't rise that fast.

[Stinkycheezmonky]

Huh. I haven't ever had that issue. Interesting. Where are you racing/driving, and do you have a supplementary oil cooler?

[rdeezy78]

makes me want to get an oil cooler now. lol

[court76wi]

Originally Posted by Stinkycheezmonky

Huh. I haven't ever had that issue. Interesting. Where are you racing/driving, and do you have a supplementary oil cooler?

Iowa / upper midwest. No supplementary oil cooler. But I'm running a 5+ qt pan, and I also have my header insulated so it's not baking the oil pan.

When I was still building the car I AutoX'd it a few times and at one event it was only about 55-60 degrees out. Oil temp would climb to about 180 during a lap, but then just idling and waiting for the next lap the oil temp would drop below 150. My CRX is the same way with a std pan.

A lot of people confuse engine temp with oil temp, and there's no relationship between the two. Some people even confuse oil pressure with oil temp, and even though it's a better indicator it's still not close. Oil pressure with "normalize" or show signs that your oil temp is up, but it will do that as low as 140-150 degrees. That's one of the reasons why idling your car a long time during the winter isn't recommended. Your engine temp might indicate normal, but your oil temp remains cold at startup or drops off fast if it was already warmed up.

Of course I'm being anal, but I generally cringe when I see supplementary oil coolers, especially without a thermostat bypass (which most don't). Especially tuners or people that occasionally track their cars. Their oil temp rarely hits optimum temps, if ever – unless they live where it's usually 90+ degrees outside. But even with that considered it would probably be better if they didn't even install one. I'm not going get into turbo/supercharged cars.

That's just me though...

I won't touch this next part, because unless you really know oil it opens up a can of worms. But thicker weight oils don't always equate to lower operating temps like most people think, and/or better protection - that's old age habbits and thinking. Thicker weight oils "absorb" more heat, but have a harder time of rejecting it. Thinner oils will heat up faster, but also reject the heat a lot quicker...

[court76wi]

For those of you having problems with really high oil temps, try heat wrapping the header pipe near the oil pan at a minimum and see if that helps. Remember your EGT is over 1000 degrees so it cooks it pretty good. I've even seen some header pipes actually touching oil pans before.

I heat wrapped my header pipes in both my Integra and CRX. The drop in under-hood temperatures is very noticeable. The difference between being able/unable to fry an egg on your hood.

It might just be a mental thing, but both my cars seem to run better overall with the headers wrapped. My CRX definitely though since it has an unheated O2 sensor and the aftermarket pickup is aft of the oil pan...

[Stinkycheezmonky]

<--- Have an oil temp gauge, oil pressure gauge, etc, as do most of my other track buddies with oil coolers, and we don't see the same issues you're describing. Everything looks Kool and the gang by the numbers. I'm wondering if the header wrap is keeping things too cool for you, if you're having trouble keeping everything warm enough for operating temps.

[JuanTushag]

Im a big fan of the honda water to oil heat exchanger.

In fact i got the same results from one of thoes as a small oil cooler. But with the heat exchanger there is less pressure loss from the cooler , lines , sandwich plate etc. Also the less chance of something going wrong!!

Unfortunately unless its cold outside I have to run a large oil cooler.

The engine does seem to warm up better with the heat exchanger. And I like that its a factory part. I just wish they had a bigger one!

[court76wi]

Originally Posted by Stinkycheezmonky

I'm wondering if the header wrap is keeping things too cool for you, if you're having trouble keeping everything warm enough for operating temps.

Well, it gets up there. Just not sitting there idling or moderate driving.

Seems strange that heat from the exhaust is required to keep oil temps up. But if the header wrap is keeping things cool, then maybe it's a good idea for those that are pushing over 260 degrees. Hell of a lot easier to install than an oil cooler. Maybe you don't need a large racing radiator either, header wrap pulls a lot of heat out of the engine bay.

Wonder how many people are running stock radiators out there? I'm stock in my GSR so far. Same radiator of course as the non-VTEC Integras.

[court76wi]

Originally Posted by JuanTushag

Im a big fan of the honda water to oil heat exchanger.

In fact i got the same results from one of thoes as a small oil cooler. But with the heat exchanger there is less pressure loss from the cooler , lines , sandwich plate etc. Also the less chance of something going wrong!!

Unfortunately unless its cold outside I have to run a large oil cooler.

The engine does seem to warm up better with the heat exchanger. And I like that its a factory part. I just wish they had a bigger one!

I have some friends that enduro an Integra Type-R, stock oil cooler, and they don't mention any problems with high oil temps. Of course if you're pushing over +200 HP then maybe that little thing can't keep up. Turbulators are a great plus for any air-fin HX, you don't see many automotive applications that make use of them though.

I'm running a MFactory 4.928 final by the way. No complaints so far, works fine. Std B-series countershaft, I'm not running the ITR countershaft type w/the 1st gear swap.

[rice_classic]

Originally Posted by court76wi

Don't get that no comment...

So the Honda OEM water to oil heat exchanger is a wonderful thing, especially for a street car as the oil picks up heat quicker than you coolant and the exchanger then transfers that heat to the coolant allowing your all the components of your car to heat up quicker and more evenly. This is great for a street car.

In racing conditions, if your radiator provides you with enough capacity to not only cool your water/coolant sufficiently but also cool the water that has an increased temperature from the exchanger then the system works well. However, if adding this extra element of heat to your cooling system from the exchanger ends up "taxing" your cooling system then you suffer problems from overly hot water/coolant, such as; cavitation, overheating, boiling water out of the radiator, etc.

The Oil/Water heat exchanger is a great system, however, under racing conditions I don't like my 180 degree water being heated by my 260+ degree oil. I like my coolant and my oil to be individually cooled on my race engine. Showing up to a race weekend is expensive enough, I like to eliminate any extra areas of potential failure when/where possible.

By running a small oil cooler I am able to keep my oil temps at or below 240 degrees even on 90-100 degree ambient temp type days.

The oil/water heat exchanger is a brilliant idea, I'm not knocking it. However, in racing it's not logical to me to add heat to the system that is intended to cool my engine in hopes to cool my oil when it's easy, cheap and highly effective to add a simple air cooled oil cooler.

I remember having a b16 CRX I used to track days with and was completely enamored by the water/oil exchanger. Thought Honda was absolutely brilliant. However on that engine during track days I still saw 280+ degree oil temps and thought; "wow, how much of a tax is this putting on my cooling system?"

I hope that makes sense.

[rice_classic]

Originally Posted by JuanTushag

Im a big fan of the honda water to oil heat exchanger.

In fact i got the same results from one of thoes as a small oil cooler. But with the heat exchanger there is less pressure loss from the cooler , lines , sandwich plate etc. Also the less chance of something going wrong!!

Unfortunately unless its cold outside I have to run a large oil cooler.

The engine does seem to warm up better with the heat exchanger. And I like that its a factory part. I just wish they had a bigger one!

This is great example of what I mentioned in my previous post.

As for the situation with oil pressure you can always do what most engine builders do and add a little shim in your oil pump to increase oil pressure. Very easy, very effective.

[enigz]

Originally Posted by rice_classic

This is great example of what I mentioned in my previous post.

As for the situation with oil pressure you can always do what most engine builders do and add a little shim in your oil pump to increase oil pressure. Very easy, very effective.

Highly interested in how this is done although Off Topic, can you point me to the right direction.

Thanks

[Reza^]

180 - 190 with the oil cooler.