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Crazy4Honda · 10-08-2009, 06:46 PM

thank for the info, deffinetly going to look into different oil, and to answer rice classic, the guage and sender are both new

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Crazy4Honda · 10-08-2009, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JuanTushag

Keep in mind this is a pretty extreme application as this engine lives between 7500 and 9k rpm.

My reasoning behind building such a heavy duty oil cooling system was that I noticed when above 280 degrees on the oil temp the engine would backfire during downshifts ( not really backfire ,, but it would throw out a flame from the exhaust and make some noise,,, this would get worse and worse as the oil temps got higher) An engine builder told me this was a sign of valves starting to hang up.

i am having this exact same issue as well with the backfire/flame between shifts, hmmmm i got to change something before i blow this engine

court76wi · 10-09-2009, 07:52 PM

At my last event I peaked about 260-265F and the outdoor temp was in the high 80s. Stock radiator and a Moroso 5.5 qt oil pan. 97 Integra GSR.

I purchased a used 94-95 GSR/ITR liquid oil cooler that I'm going to install this winter.

I like liquid coolers over air for two reasons...
1. You're not running oil lines all over the place.
2. A liquid oil cooler also helps the engine oil warm up faster, especially in cool weather.

rice_classic · 10-09-2009, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by court76wi

At my last event I peaked about 260-265F and the outdoor temp was in the high 80s. Stock radiator and a Moroso 5.5 qt oil pan. 97 Integra GSR.

I purchased a used 94-95 GSR/ITR liquid oil cooler that I'm going to install this winter.

I like liquid coolers over air for two reasons...
1. You're not running oil lines all over the place.
2. A liquid oil cooler also helps the engine oil warm up faster, especially in cool weather.

Street driven, yes... Race car, no.

RedR · 10-10-2009, 05:24 AM

How would it work if i wanted to add an oil cooler to my ls/vtec engine considering i´m already running the GE sandwich plate.

Lo-Buck EF · 10-10-2009, 07:04 AM

u can run 2 plates. alot of people have to to clear the fittings for the cooler.

GI8U2racing · 10-10-2009, 07:21 AM

What great information so far! My oil temps were 290* at VIR in July halfway into the 45 minute race on Sunday when it was 98* outside. I cringed everytime I looked down and saw that, and backed off for a couple laps (short shifted) and it came down to like 275*.

117 · 10-10-2009, 07:47 AM

When I first assembled my engine (H22), I left out the OEM water-to-oil cooler in anticipation of installing an air-to-oil cooler once the engine was broken in. At my first event with the new engine, my oil temps would climb alarmingly fast on a relatively easy track to 280F within 2 laps, and IIRC, it was fairly cool out (85F-ish).

Before the next event, I installed a 25 row Mocal cooler with -12 fittings. I saw no noticeable drop in oil pressure (Defi oil pressure gauge at the time, I did not have data aq), and oil temps have stayed below 230F even on very fast courses where it's easy to drive the car hard in 100F+ ambient temps.

Stinkycheezmonky · 10-10-2009, 07:51 AM

What are you using to log those temps now?

117 · 10-10-2009, 08:06 AM

Race Technology DL1 with Bosch oil temp, oil pressure, and water temp sensors.

Ponyboy · 10-10-2009, 08:13 AM

Run b/t 210-220 on track w/ a SOS rebadged B&M in June heat.

SCoupe 5sp · 10-13-2009, 11:32 PM

I've got a Mocal oil cooler on my B16A track build engine running about 8qts (Accusump w/3 qtr) At Buttonwillow, the return from engine temps never exceeded 230 (pre-cooler), modest track temps. I thoght that was hot until I read this thread.

Amsoil 5-30w Racing Oil

Pix of set up pre-plumbing...

Crazy4Honda · 10-14-2009, 05:41 PM

who makes that cooler?? and whats that other cooler? power steering? do you find that the power steering cooler helps alot?

117 · 10-14-2009, 06:56 PM

Mocal, Setrab, and Earls make nice stacked plate coolers. Mine is a Mocal. The one above looks like a Mocal as well.

Tage_Evanson · 10-14-2009, 09:56 PM

Great thread guys! I just joined HT (not sure why I waited so long!) and I wish I had read this first before buying my oil cooler because I think it's WAY too small. I was seeing 280+ after 2-3 laps on my Autometer oil temp gauge with my sensor in the oil pan (K24A2 - 8000RPM). After the oil cooler I'm not seeing 250 after 2-3 laps but it doesn't seem to go any higher than that. I usually use Mobile 1 10w30 but used 15w50 this time around and it seemed to maintain oil pressure longer.

My old setup with no oil cooler (besides the factory coolant cooler) and 10w30, oil pressure would start to decrease once temps got high. I'm not sure if my pressure fix is due to thicker oil, cooler temps or a combination of the two??? I would like to get the temps down to the 210-230 range though but after seeing some of these pics I think I just need to get a bigger cooler... :-/

Aquafina · 10-14-2009, 10:08 PM

How much oil are you guys adding when running the coolers? Please list what brand, type, and size cooler as well as location if you haven't already.

Crazy4Honda · 10-14-2009, 11:10 PM

the oil cooler i have is off of a Ferrari and is a little small for me, so i will be getting ride of it soon if anyone is interested, and i went from running 4.3 quarts of oil to about 6.5

Crazy4Honda · 10-14-2009, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tage_Evanson

Great thread guys! I just joined HT (not sure why I waited so long!) and I wish I had read this first before buying my oil cooler because I think it's WAY too small. I was seeing 280+ after 2-3 laps on my Autometer oil temp gauge with my sensor in the oil pan (K24A2 - 8000RPM). After the oil cooler I'm not seeing 250 after 2-3 laps but it doesn't seem to go any higher than that. I usually use Mobile 1 10w30 but used 15w50 this time around and it seemed to maintain oil pressure longer.

My old setup with no oil cooler (besides the factory coolant cooler) and 10w30, oil pressure would start to decrease once temps got high. I'm not sure if my pressure fix is due to thicker oil, cooler temps or a combination of the two??? I would like to get the temps down to the 210-230 range though but after seeing some of these pics I think I just need to get a bigger cooler... :-/

Thanks TAGE!! good to see ya on HT, surprised you haven't signed up sooner either, thanks for you input, see ya at the next event

Lo-Buck EF · 10-15-2009, 04:05 AM

Here's a question for everyone. How high is too high in reguards to oil temps and how did you come to that determination?

Stinkycheezmonky · 10-15-2009, 07:10 AM

I was under the assumption that +300* most oils start to break down. Mobil Synthetic advertised otherwise, but that hasn't been my experience.

My setup winds up having about 6.5qts total for the system, as described above.

And Tage, yeah, sounds like you need a bigger cooler if you want to drop that temp more.

Ponyboy · 10-15-2009, 07:21 AM

Echo the above. Didn't Grassroots Motorsports do a big oil temp article a couple of months ago? I may have to dig that out. IIRC, anything over 300, the oil breaks down, and it loses it's protection at a compounding rate.

117 · 10-15-2009, 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquafina

How much oil are you guys adding when running the coolers? Please list what brand, type, and size cooler as well as location if you haven't already.

I'm adding 1.5 quarts or a bit more to the 5 quart normal fill for an H22. Here is my setup:

Mocal 25 row 235 matrix oil cooler with -12 fittings
Mocal thermostatic sandwich plate
Aeroquip -12 plumbing
Generally use an oversized Wix filter (51344)

Cooler is mounted "sideways" on the passenger side, in front of the radiator.

I need to find my source, but I recall reading that engine oils work best around 220F to 230F. I need to look at my oil pressure logs over a session to see if there is any appreciable drop in oil pressure as the oil temps rise.

BTW, I am measuring oil temp in the oil pan and oil pressure in the main galley in the head.

sander · 10-15-2009, 09:53 AM

I add about a quart to mine, coming in at around 6.2 qt total.

Setrab 12 row, with -8 fittings.
Still have the aluminum pan.
No thermostat (only for the reason that for earlier events in the year, I'll block off the sandwich plate with AN caps.)

I am generally speaking around 230f, no logs though. I have a mechanical gauge on that one still (i know i know, i'm working on it)

I usually have around a 5 psi loss over the entire session. 25-30 Minutes.

I also echo the above on optimal temp's. I have a bulletin somewhere from BMW or MB about optimum oil temps etc. I'll try and find a log to put up after lunch.

Crazy4Honda · 10-15-2009, 07:54 PM

So would having the oil tempo sender in the pan verses the Block/sandwich plate make any difference?

slammed_93_hatch · 10-15-2009, 08:30 PM

Yes, in a way.

If you have it after the cooler, you shouldnt/cant compare it to poeple who have it in the pan/before the cooler.

The BEST way is to have sensor before and after the cooler.

But I like it in the pan, that way you know the hottest the oil gets.

10-09-2009, 07:52 PM	#28
court76wi Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Iowa Posts: 215	Re: Oil Temps At my last event I peaked about 260-265F and the outdoor temp was in the high 80s. Stock radiator and a Moroso 5.5 qt oil pan. 97 Integra GSR. I purchased a used 94-95 GSR/ITR liquid oil cooler that I'm going to install this winter. I like liquid coolers over air for two reasons... 1. You're not running oil lines all over the place. 2. A liquid oil cooler also helps the engine oil warm up faster, especially in cool weather. __________________ 89 CRX HF, Solo SSM 97 Integra GSR, Club ITS

10-10-2009, 05:24 AM	#30
RedR Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Lisbon, Portugal, Portugal Posts: 1,023	Re: Oil Temps How would it work if i wanted to add an oil cooler to my ls/vtec engine considering i´m already running the GE sandwich plate. __________________ b00sted

10-10-2009, 07:04 AM	#31
Lo-Buck EF Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: dumpster divin for ra1s, NY Posts: 5,213	Re: Oil Temps u can run 2 plates. alot of people have to to clear the fittings for the cooler. __________________ 2009 NEHC H2 Champ AJ Nealey Racing MLR Motorsports East Coast Honda Challenge

10-10-2009, 07:21 AM	#32
GI8U2racing Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Bowie, MD Posts: 568	Re: Oil Temps What great information so far! My oil temps were 290* at VIR in July halfway into the 45 minute race on Sunday when it was 98* outside. I cringed everytime I looked down and saw that, and backed off for a couple laps (short shifted) and it came down to like 275. __________________ Jonathan Baker #32 H2 ECHC - 1988 CRX HF w/B18C5 FS: SMSP Header $750:* http://www.hondamarketplace.com/showthread.php?t=2581921

10-10-2009, 07:47 AM	#33
117 Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: DFW Area, TX Posts: 2,217	Re: Oil Temps When I first assembled my engine (H22), I left out the OEM water-to-oil cooler in anticipation of installing an air-to-oil cooler once the engine was broken in. At my first event with the new engine, my oil temps would climb alarmingly fast on a relatively easy track to 280F within 2 laps, and IIRC, it was fairly cool out (85F-ish). Before the next event, I installed a 25 row Mocal cooler with -12 fittings. I saw no noticeable drop in oil pressure (Defi oil pressure gauge at the time, I did not have data aq), and oil temps have stayed below 230F even on very fast courses where it's easy to drive the car hard in 100F+ ambient temps.

10-10-2009, 08:06 AM	#35
117 Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: DFW Area, TX Posts: 2,217	Re: Oil Temps Race Technology DL1 with Bosch oil temp, oil pressure, and water temp sensors.

10-10-2009, 08:13 AM	#36
Ponyboy Modeval 1991 Acura NSX Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Tulsa, OK, USA Posts: 6,451	Re: Oil Temps Run b/t 210-220 on track w/ a SOS rebadged B&M in June heat. __________________ 3.6L NSX ScienceofSpeed Stroker - 335rwhp/270rwtq and a thousand more revs to go.

10-13-2009, 11:32 PM	#37
SCoupe 5sp Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: San Carlos, CA, USA Posts: 12	Re: Oil Temps I've got a Mocal oil cooler on my B16A track build engine running about 8qts (Accusump w/3 qtr) At Buttonwillow, the return from engine temps never exceeded 230 (pre-cooler), modest track temps. I thoght that was hot until I read this thread. Amsoil 5-30w Racing Oil Pix of set up pre-plumbing... Attached Images

10-14-2009, 05:41 PM	#38
Crazy4Honda Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Chandler, Arizona, USA Posts: 119	Re: Oil Temps who makes that cooler?? and whats that other cooler? power steering? do you find that the power steering cooler helps alot? __________________ VTEC is NOT "V-tec", "V-TEC", "V-tech", "V-TECH", "VTECH", "V-TEK", "vtech", "vtec", "vortech", "Vtec", or "Vtech". It's CAPITAL VTEC. No dashes, no lower case, no extra letters, no anything other than the correct and only spelling of VTEC. If you cannot respect the technology and simply use the correct spelling, you do not deserve what it gives you. http://images.honda-tech.com/set1/smile/emthup.gif

10-14-2009, 06:56 PM	#39
117 Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: DFW Area, TX Posts: 2,217	Re: Oil Temps Mocal, Setrab, and Earls make nice stacked plate coolers. Mine is a Mocal. The one above looks like a Mocal as well.

10-14-2009, 09:56 PM	#40
Tage_Evanson Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 17	Re: Oil Temps Great thread guys! I just joined HT (not sure why I waited so long!) and I wish I had read this first before buying my oil cooler because I think it's WAY too small. I was seeing 280+ after 2-3 laps on my Autometer oil temp gauge with my sensor in the oil pan (K24A2 - 8000RPM). After the oil cooler I'm not seeing 250 after 2-3 laps but it doesn't seem to go any higher than that. I usually use Mobile 1 10w30 but used 15w50 this time around and it seemed to maintain oil pressure longer. My old setup with no oil cooler (besides the factory coolant cooler) and 10w30, oil pressure would start to decrease once temps got high. I'm not sure if my pressure fix is due to thicker oil, cooler temps or a combination of the two??? I would like to get the temps down to the 210-230 range though but after seeing some of these pics I think I just need to get a bigger cooler... :-/ __________________ NASA Arizona Regional Director www.nasaaz.com Tage@nasaaz.com

10-14-2009, 10:08 PM	#41
Aquafina Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Johnson City TN Posts: 9,601	Re: Oil Temps How much oil are you guys adding when running the coolers? Please list what brand, type, and size cooler as well as location if you haven't already. __________________ Whoopee Doo Racing: MFactory, Rocket Motorsports, Action Clutch////ITR Expo Sponsor 2006-2009////MFactory North American Installer////Need a trans built? Doo it once, Doo it right.

10-14-2009, 11:10 PM	#42
Crazy4Honda Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Chandler, Arizona, USA Posts: 119	Re: Oil Temps the oil cooler i have is off of a Ferrari and is a little small for me, so i will be getting ride of it soon if anyone is interested, and i went from running 4.3 quarts of oil to about 6.5 __________________ VTEC is NOT "V-tec", "V-TEC", "V-tech", "V-TECH", "VTECH", "V-TEK", "vtech", "vtec", "vortech", "Vtec", or "Vtech". It's CAPITAL VTEC. No dashes, no lower case, no extra letters, no anything other than the correct and only spelling of VTEC. If you cannot respect the technology and simply use the correct spelling, you do not deserve what it gives you. http://images.honda-tech.com/set1/smile/emthup.gif

10-15-2009, 04:05 AM	#44
Lo-Buck EF Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: dumpster divin for ra1s, NY Posts: 5,213	Re: Oil Temps Here's a question for everyone. How high is too high in reguards to oil temps and how did you come to that determination? __________________ 2009 NEHC H2 Champ AJ Nealey Racing MLR Motorsports East Coast Honda Challenge

10-15-2009, 07:21 AM	#46
Ponyboy Modeval 1991 Acura NSX Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Tulsa, OK, USA Posts: 6,451	Re: Oil Temps Echo the above. Didn't Grassroots Motorsports do a big oil temp article a couple of months ago? I may have to dig that out. IIRC, anything over 300, the oil breaks down, and it loses it's protection at a compounding rate. __________________ 3.6L NSX ScienceofSpeed Stroker - 335rwhp/270rwtq and a thousand more revs to go.

10-15-2009, 09:53 AM	#48
sander 2.7(p/t) Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Maryland Posts: 1,992	Re: Oil Temps I add about a quart to mine, coming in at around 6.2 qt total. Setrab 12 row, with -8 fittings. Still have the aluminum pan. No thermostat (only for the reason that for earlier events in the year, I'll block off the sandwich plate with AN caps.) I am generally speaking around 230f, no logs though. I have a mechanical gauge on that one still (i know i know, i'm working on it) I usually have around a 5 psi loss over the entire session. 25-30 Minutes. I also echo the above on optimal temp's. I have a bulletin somewhere from BMW or MB about optimum oil temps etc. I'll try and find a log to put up after lunch. __________________ http://motec.com/corporate/whymotec/

10-15-2009, 07:54 PM	#49
Crazy4Honda Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Chandler, Arizona, USA Posts: 119	Re: Oil Temps So would having the oil tempo sender in the pan verses the Block/sandwich plate make any difference? __________________ VTEC is NOT "V-tec", "V-TEC", "V-tech", "V-TECH", "VTECH", "V-TEK", "vtech", "vtec", "vortech", "Vtec", or "Vtech". It's CAPITAL VTEC. No dashes, no lower case, no extra letters, no anything other than the correct and only spelling of VTEC. If you cannot respect the technology and simply use the correct spelling, you do not deserve what it gives you. http://images.honda-tech.com/set1/smile/emthup.gif

10-15-2009, 08:30 PM	#50
slammed_93_hatch Senior Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: cali Posts: 12,901	Re: Oil Temps Yes, in a way. If you have it after the cooler, you shouldnt/cant compare it to poeple who have it in the pan/before the cooler. The BEST way is to have sensor before and after the cooler. But I like it in the pan, that way you know the hottest the oil gets. __________________ Check out my BLOGhttp://thenextenth.wordpress.com/ Thanks to.. www.motowear.com www.prima-racing.com www.hasport.com

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