Swansen

So, following FSM tdc on cam and crank pulley, loosen tensioner 180 degrees, all that is good, and i'm going to put the belt on the gear and there is a little bit of slack on the front side of the belt, and then when i turn the crank to put some tension on the tensioner and belt the cam gear doesn't turn with it, so the crank and cam gear no longer line up on TDC.. Is that suppose to happen or is something else wrong? Its not a huge increment, under a 1/4" 2/16ths maybe? on the cam gear tdc marks.

92 civic ex (d16)

Former User

Are you installing the belt on the pulleys and gears in the order stated in the FSM?

Swansen

i'm sorry, i'm tired, i probably should have been a little more detailed. No, i'm not actually installing a new timing belt, i just got done putting on a new head gasket, and i'm just putting the timing belt back on the cam pulley... or trying anyways. I can pull the belt on the back side up about half a tooth right now, so that seems normal, but like its weird, because the belt doesn't turn the cam right away..

Former User

Try compensating by installing the belt one tooth off on the cam in the other direction. Then rotate the crank several revolutions to see whether synchrony at TDC1 for the cam and crank is maintained.

Swansen

Yeah, good idea, the problem seems to be the lack on tension of the front part of the belt when its on the cam gear. The back side is fine, but it takes a little bit until it tightens up and engages the gear. I'll try that out and see what happens.

JohnnyWash1

This is exactly what I did when re-installing my timing belt.

Swansen

If i had batterys for my camera i would have just take a picture, but yeah, i spun crank around a couple times with belt engaged and it lines up exactly the same every revolution... i am so confused...

Picture shows what i'm dealing with, its not off a tooth, its like a one or two sixteenths of an inch off...

you know what... i know i suzuki sidekicks and geo trackers, the key for the crank pulley fails and they get this same condition... Not saying thats whats going on here, but i guess it a possibility.. maybe?? i dunno, this is confusing, especially considering it ran completely fine before hand... wtf

Former User

Is the crank at perfect TDC1 for this illustration? You could be off by one tooth.

Swansen

Yes, see here is the deal, i line up crank at TDC, then cam at TDC, all good. Then i go to turn crank to put tension on the timing belt and there is slack on the front side of the belt, so the crank turns first, and then the cam engages and turns when all the slack is removed, this is where the problem comes in and i get the alignment issue. Unless i'm missing something, i don't understand how it could be off by a tooth? i dunno, let me go try this again...

Swansen

not off by a tooth...

Swansen

anyone? could the tensioner be bad?

Swansen

i found my problem, i thought the tensioner was going out, but as it turns out... the B8 block is just stupid... lol. SO, i bought the car on a whim... a really bad one at that, and its an ex, but apparently at some point some one decided to swap in a b8 bottom end, which apparently causes issues with timing belt length and tension... So i ether get a VX belt, or an adjustable cam gear/pulley.. and this in a nightmare and a half. What i'm confused about is how the crap it ran so well in the fist place?? .... f'n kids and their messed up cobbling..

http://www.d-series.org/forums/engin...8-mini-me.html

thumper64

The difference between the VX and Si/EX belt is like one tooth. It would only set the cam and crank like 4.xx degrees off and that is still supposed to run fine. For tension, the tensioner adjusts a fair amount. Just make sure you line the notch in the cog on the crankshaft (not crank pulley, but what the TB rides on) up with the arrow on the plastic cover on the block. Wipe the grease and junk off, you'll see it.

Swansen

Well.. ether my woodruff key is screwed, or the tensioner is dieing, ether way, i need to take the crank pulley off. If the crank pulley isn't lining up like it should, than the woodruff key is all messed up, as the TDC mark on the pulley and crank shaft itself, are two different ways of finding the same thing. i dunno, there is tension in the belt, you have to pull it up to get it around the cog, but it just doesn't line up right, you have to turn the crank pulley counter-clockwise a little bit in order to get the slack out of the front half of the belt.. I dunno, i'll attempt to take off the crank pulley tonight and see if the woodruff key is messed up. If there anyways to test the tensioner? Also, there only seems to be a difference in how the B8 vs all other tensioner mount to the block, anyone know if you can use a tensioner from other blocks on the b8??

https://honda-tech.com/forums/honda-civic-del-sol-1992-2000-1/tdc-marks-crank-pulley-2533410/
^diagram for timing/tdc marks^

Swansen

well using these cam gears as a reference, its probably off like 6 degrees... ?? so what does that equal? Ether way, i think i'm just going to order a cam gear and solve my problem that way, as i really have no idea whats going on. I'm guess a combination of a warnish belt (its newer) and a warnish tensioner causing the 4 degrees to increase to 5/6 degrees, thanks my guess.



http://www.auctiva.com/hostedimages/...0,0,0&format=0

Swansen

power tools make life so much easier, crank shaft bolt came out no problems, didn't even spin, that is the sweetness.

----finish---
So, everything worked out, new tensioner helped a little bit, but i just took out all the slack with the adjustable cam and everything was good to go. Oh yeah, so the key was fine, took it off easy with a cheap impact from harbor freight, and for anyone buying a adjustable cam gear, your going to need to get a key, or have one made.

----edit... now finish.. kinda-----
B8 MiniMe swap = a really bad idea, because no one knows exactly what is going one... but i'm getting closer..
http://hondaswap.com/hybrid-eg-ek-dc...rite-up-96144/

--------final last edit----------
-------SOLVED-------

Right, so first, what i did. Set everything to TDC. On the adjustable cam gear i extended the timing mark onto the center of the gear. That way, i could adjust the cam to TDC as well. I did this by keeping the belt tensioned and loosening the gears bolts and then moving the gear to TDC via the new mark i made. After that it was business as usual, no problems, and timed perfectly

http://d-series.org/forums/engine-bu...ml#post1718862