Dyno comparison: Skunk2 Pro 1's vs CTR camshafts
03-09-2009, 02:53 PM
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Dyno comparison: Skunk2 Pro 1's vs CTR camshafts
I finally got a chance to do a back to back test on a customer's car that was previously using CTR cams and recently switched over to Skunk2 Pro 1's cams. I have not seen a real solid test at the same boost levels comparing the ITR/CTR cams to the Skunk2 Pro 1's, so I thought H-T would appreciate the info. Here is a quick run down on the car:
Full Race Stage 3 GT A/C kit (GT35R .82 a/r)
Thermal 3″ exhaust, no cat
84mm x 89mm b-series engine, 9:1 comp CP pistons, Manley Turbo Tuff Rods
ITR cylinder head, Pro Port headwork, Ferrea Competition Plus valvetrain
Edelbrock victor x intake manifold, 70mm throttle body
Injector dynamics 1000cc injectors, walbro 255lph HP fuel pump
93 Octane fuel
Here are the comparison graphs:
The pulls were done at several different psi levels, but I used the closest boost levels (18-19 psi) to illustrate the gains from doing the cam switch. There is a solid 60 whp gain in the higher rpms, with 300-400 rpms faster spool. When reviewing the boost plots the Pro 1’s had a peak boost of 18.5 psi, where the CTR cams had a peak boost of 19.8 psi. The Pro 1’s were able to make significant gains with approximately 1.5 psi less boost between 8,500-9000 rpms! I hope this test can end alot of the "which cams are best for boost" posts I see several times a week on here.
I do want to make sure that everyone is clear, DO NOT USE THESE CAMS WITH A LOG MANIFOLD!!! They will lose power, bottom line. You need a GT35r or larger turbo, equal length manifold, large plenum intake manifold (edelbrock victor x or similar) and 3" or larger exhaust (no cat). I have had several customer's car come in with big cams like the Pro 1's, Tuner 2's, etc running log manifolds, 2" exhausts, etc and either have to turn vtec off or have it engage at 8,000 rpm+.
This write-up is also available at our blog.
Full Race Stage 3 GT A/C kit (GT35R .82 a/r)
Thermal 3″ exhaust, no cat
84mm x 89mm b-series engine, 9:1 comp CP pistons, Manley Turbo Tuff Rods
ITR cylinder head, Pro Port headwork, Ferrea Competition Plus valvetrain
Edelbrock victor x intake manifold, 70mm throttle body
Injector dynamics 1000cc injectors, walbro 255lph HP fuel pump
93 Octane fuel
Here are the comparison graphs:
The pulls were done at several different psi levels, but I used the closest boost levels (18-19 psi) to illustrate the gains from doing the cam switch. There is a solid 60 whp gain in the higher rpms, with 300-400 rpms faster spool. When reviewing the boost plots the Pro 1’s had a peak boost of 18.5 psi, where the CTR cams had a peak boost of 19.8 psi. The Pro 1’s were able to make significant gains with approximately 1.5 psi less boost between 8,500-9000 rpms! I hope this test can end alot of the "which cams are best for boost" posts I see several times a week on here.
I do want to make sure that everyone is clear, DO NOT USE THESE CAMS WITH A LOG MANIFOLD!!! They will lose power, bottom line. You need a GT35r or larger turbo, equal length manifold, large plenum intake manifold (edelbrock victor x or similar) and 3" or larger exhaust (no cat). I have had several customer's car come in with big cams like the Pro 1's, Tuner 2's, etc running log manifolds, 2" exhausts, etc and either have to turn vtec off or have it engage at 8,000 rpm+.
This write-up is also available at our blog.
Last edited by Evans-Tuning.com; 03-11-2009 at 07:23 AM.
03-09-2009, 03:51 PM
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Re: Dyno comparison: Skunk2 Pro 1's vs CTR camshafts
Awesome comparison!
Now I've had a few people advising me to run Pro1's on my Topmount 60-1 Turbo 1.8l setup, but i'm hesitant to run them becuase I've read you saying only to run it with a GT35R or larger. My 60-1 doesn't fall into the ladder does it?
Now I've had a few people advising me to run Pro1's on my Topmount 60-1 Turbo 1.8l setup, but i'm hesitant to run them becuase I've read you saying only to run it with a GT35R or larger. My 60-1 doesn't fall into the ladder does it?
03-09-2009, 04:00 PM
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Re: Dyno comparison: Skunk2 Pro 1's vs CTR camshafts
finally the test i have been waiting to se!!! nice job. i think i will be doing the switch.
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03-09-2009, 04:10 PM
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Re: Dyno comparison: Skunk2 Pro 1's vs CTR camshafts
Jeff did you make any pulls past 9k rpm? I would love to keep my GSR cams in when I come back for a retune and do a GSR vs Pro1 comparison, bet that increase would be massive.
03-09-2009, 04:10 PM
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Re: Dyno comparison: Skunk2 Pro 1's vs CTR camshafts
The 60-1 will work fine with the pro 1's if you are using the t350 aka stage 5 turbine wheel. I have not tried them on the stage 3 that typically comes with the t3/60-1's. I have used the tuner series stage 1's and pick up some nice power over GSRs on the t3/60-1.
03-09-2009, 04:15 PM
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Re: Dyno comparison: Skunk2 Pro 1's vs CTR camshafts
I am not really into making crazy power on pump gas, but this car just wanted to make power so easily it was unreal. The engine with CTR's installed was actually tuned to 540whp at 21 psi previously, which I did not want to do on this set-up. The duty cycle on the solenoid was really touchy, so it was hard enough getting the boost dialed in to overlay on the old plots. 60% duty cycle gave 18~18.5 psi, 63% duty cycle gave 21 psi but i lifted out of those runs around 6k...it was headed for 600whp range lol. The car is a full weight ITR, and trapped in the 133-134 mph range at 475-500whp previously so I cant wait to see what it does this time around with the new cams.
03-09-2009, 04:17 PM
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Re: Dyno comparison: Skunk2 Pro 1's vs CTR camshafts
I didnt make any pulls past 9k simply because the old graphs ended there. I was more interested in getting a good comparison. Limiter is at 9.5k on the engine, so revving it out a bit probably wouldnt have done much more.
03-09-2009, 04:20 PM
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Re: Dyno comparison: Skunk2 Pro 1's vs CTR camshafts
Ok cool, I was just curious of the gains at around 10k with them, it looks like they were going to keep making power if the boost stayed constant at 9k.
03-09-2009, 04:37 PM
#16
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Re: Dyno comparison: Skunk2 Pro 1's vs CTR camshafts
I am not really into making crazy power on pump gas, but this car just wanted to make power so easily it was unreal. The engine with CTR's installed was actually tuned to 540whp at 21 psi previously, which I did not want to do on this set-up. The duty cycle on the solenoid was really touchy, so it was hard enough getting the boost dialed in to overlay on the old plots. 60% duty cycle gave 18~18.5 psi, 63% duty cycle gave 21 psi but i lifted out of those runs around 6k...it was headed for 600whp range lol. The car is a full weight ITR, and trapped in the 133-134 mph range at 475-500whp previously so I cant wait to see what it does this time around with the new cams.
i love cars like that. its weird how some cars just want to make all of the power in the world. i wish they were all like that!
03-09-2009, 06:24 PM
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Re: Dyno comparison: Skunk2 Pro 1's vs CTR camshafts
Nice comparison......
I'm guessing for a t3/t04e I should just stick with the CTR or ITR intake cam on a b18c1? I may just go with the pro 1's in case I upgrade the turbo later......
I'm guessing for a t3/t04e I should just stick with the CTR or ITR intake cam on a b18c1? I may just go with the pro 1's in case I upgrade the turbo later......
03-09-2009, 06:50 PM
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Re: Dyno comparison: Skunk2 Pro 1's vs CTR camshafts
We've had several customers with similar setups and did the same exact thing. It's ridiculous!
- Derek
03-09-2009, 07:07 PM
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Re: Dyno comparison: Skunk2 Pro 1's vs CTR camshafts
Jeff...great tune as always, the car has been driving like stock. Figured I'd post a few pics and mod list for those interested:
Full Race ProStreet AC Stage 3 GT Kit
Thermal 3” Exhaust
Full Race 3" Downpipe
22x8x3 Intercooler Anodized
GT 35r Turbo .82 A/R Exhaust Housing
Tial 50mm BOV
Tial 44mm Wastegate w/ 10lb spring
Walbro 255lph HP Fuel Pump Intank
Competition Stage 5 clutch w/ upgraded pressure plate
Competition Ultralightweight 7 lb Flywheel
RPM Services 72mm TB
Plug Wires NGK Blues
Greddy Timing Belt
Edelbrock Intake Manifold
AEM Fuel Rail
Aeromotive A1000 FPR
Hasport Motor Mounts
Injector Dynamics 1000cc Saturated Injectors
Darton Sleeves 84mm bore x 89 mm stroke
ERL MID kit
9:1 CP Pistons
Manley Rods
Ferrera Competition Plus Valve Train w/ TI retainers, bronze valve guides
LS Crank
Skunk 2 Pro 1 cams
T1 Catch Can
Omnipower 4-bar map sensor
Outlaw Engineering IM gasket
Autometer (Wideband, Boost, Oil Temp, Oil Pressure, Fuel Pressure, Wire Temp & Press)
Sparco Wheel/Hub/Bolt-On Quick Release #Civic/CRX 92-95
Battery re-route kit
Port & Polish Head
Neptune
ARP Studs (Main, Head, clutch & flywheel bolts)
Toda Cam Gears
Full Race ProStreet AC Stage 3 GT Kit
Thermal 3” Exhaust
Full Race 3" Downpipe
22x8x3 Intercooler Anodized
GT 35r Turbo .82 A/R Exhaust Housing
Tial 50mm BOV
Tial 44mm Wastegate w/ 10lb spring
Walbro 255lph HP Fuel Pump Intank
Competition Stage 5 clutch w/ upgraded pressure plate
Competition Ultralightweight 7 lb Flywheel
RPM Services 72mm TB
Plug Wires NGK Blues
Greddy Timing Belt
Edelbrock Intake Manifold
AEM Fuel Rail
Aeromotive A1000 FPR
Hasport Motor Mounts
Injector Dynamics 1000cc Saturated Injectors
Darton Sleeves 84mm bore x 89 mm stroke
ERL MID kit
9:1 CP Pistons
Manley Rods
Ferrera Competition Plus Valve Train w/ TI retainers, bronze valve guides
LS Crank
Skunk 2 Pro 1 cams
T1 Catch Can
Omnipower 4-bar map sensor
Outlaw Engineering IM gasket
Autometer (Wideband, Boost, Oil Temp, Oil Pressure, Fuel Pressure, Wire Temp & Press)
Sparco Wheel/Hub/Bolt-On Quick Release #Civic/CRX 92-95
Battery re-route kit
Port & Polish Head
Neptune
ARP Studs (Main, Head, clutch & flywheel bolts)
Toda Cam Gears
03-09-2009, 07:46 PM
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Re: Dyno comparison: Skunk2 Pro 1's vs CTR camshafts
I want your car sooo bad, I bought one brand new back in 2000 and totalled it 5 months later 
Big congrads to you does the car feel faster now with the new cams even though you are at basically the same power level as before?
Big congrads to you does the car feel faster now with the new cams even though you are at basically the same power level as before?
03-10-2009, 04:57 AM
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Re: Dyno comparison: Skunk2 Pro 1's vs CTR camshafts
Can anyone give an approximate difference between these two sets of cams in terms of duration at .050" or 1mm (whichever is handy), and overall valve or lobe lift (again, whichever one is handy)?
Thanks in advance!
Thanks in advance!