redzcstandardhatch

tuning a supercharged car isnt any more difficult, etc, than a turbo car.

the reason (in the honda world, at least) that you used to see lower reliability with turbo cars than supercharged cars is that, plain and simple, turbos make a lot more power.

supercharged cars generally have more heat issues. they keep making more heat, higher IATs, and generally dont have efficient intercoolers.

i cant EVER remember seeing problems from heat "bottling up" and causing exhaust valve problems/exhaust manifold problems (aside from obviously poor tuning and high EGT temp issues)

turboteener

I ran a season of Time trial with my 240whp turbo, the only issue I had was keeping the hoses on. During the first test session I popped three TB couplers. I think it was just really cheap connectors. After I redid the connectors and started using nice T-bolt clamps, problems solved. The car never ran hot even with a stock EG SI radiator. It was infinitely drivable unless you got into a really slow corner. I had a little issue with lag, but it was mostly in one turn on one track, everywhere else the car was as drivable as a big NA car. I was running a small T3. I don't know that I would go that much bigger on the turbo as it would make it undrivable on hill climbs. I liked driving the car, but the class you are stuck in, makes being competitive very hard unless you build a specific race car and make it as light as hell. Even then you are on class with all the fendered fire breathers.

raiden571

i ran a built ls/vtec on 400whp on the road course and hated it. I am actually changing the car back to NA and just doing other mods. Really it depends on the car/driver. I used to love ***** to the wall power with the turbo, but it didnt mean **** through the turns. In my opinion its all about being balanced.

MBellRacing

I agree with the intake temperature issues on the supercharged cars but have seen a number of valve/manifold issues on boosted BMWs and Evos. I just figured high-horsepower Hondas would suffer from similar issues.

dumafit

my setup isn't complete yet, but i'll be running this on the street and hpde events

b18c1 with usdm itr pistons, stock head
blox intake manifold
spoolin' performance log manifold
garrett gt2871r turbo
spoolin' performance 3" downpipe
tial 38mm wastegate
greddy bov
tuned with hondata s300
aluminum radiator
oil cooler
moroso baffled steel oil pan
catch can setup with 2 block breathers

pretty much it, a very simple setup that's designed for response, and not looking to make a whole lot of power, around ~250whp, later on i might upgrade the head with an ITR setup but the block is gonna stay the same until it goes

boosted920

bump! thnx everyone for all the responses, all very helpful.

the s/c sounds nice but im gonna stick with a medium sized turbo.

so far, a gt30r sounds like my choice. def. going to be B.B. i want to hit as close to 500whp as possible (on race gas and/or meth) for the streets and de-tune and run a lower boost for the track.

as for racing... so if i race hpde or any sanctioned event i understand ill be racing with high hp caged out race cars! sounds intimidating but im just going to be doing this every once in a while for fun im also planning to have fun at the drag strip from time to time.

next step up is to find a good susp. setup for street/track....

redzcstandardhatch

i think your going to only see it with poorly tuned/setup/thought-out cars, really.

even higher end cars can have really poor tuning, and its those owners who, realistically, probably know less of the symptoms of bad tuning ,and who flog their cars more merciliessly.

some of the poorest running turbo cars i've ever seen were the ones with the most money sho veled into them! haha

those issues arent the turbo systems fault, no matter what the shop/tuner/owner that built them says. haha

mrlegoman

Haven't read all the post, but I do have a boosted time trial/time attack car setup. Been running boost on track for about 6 years now, so I have plenty of tips and tricks.
Supercharge air intake temps ran 220-250. So lots of issues there.
I now run a GT28RS on a B18. ~250whp on track at 8 psi on pump gas.

Tein Flex's with an EDFC is an awesome suspension combo for street/track driving. Highly recommended.

BigStu

nice...i have my 1st track HPDE this April. going to only run 10psi that day

mrlegoman

1st as in 1st one for the year? Or 1st as in 1st time on track ever?

rclark

IMHO opinion that is an awful choice for a road race turbo, and probably too much horsepower to be efficient as well.

BigStu

1st ever...finally

Lo-Buck EF

oh boy. you'll never drive the other car now. sell it to me. i need a fresh racecar chassis.

mrlegoman

I went with the GT28RS because of the quick spool time and the torque curve is perfect for the track( and I never have to deal with the turbo lag issue.) The GT30R's take a little longer to spool and a sharper torque curve which I felt was to abrupt and would cause too much pedal modulation to maintain car stability.

Good luck with it. Some of us tenured track guys will suggest you stick a 90hp stock motor in the car and learn the feel of the track and the car first. Mistakes are very forgiving and you can push the car to and past the limits to learn how to anticipate them. Going on track with a 3-400whp monster will not allow you to do that. Little mistakes are exaggerated because of the hp and speed you will be going. I've seen dozen's of people in high hp cars going **** *** slow through the corners, then haul *** in the straights. (Note Ford GT chase video) But the 100hp CRX with 2000$ in suspension still beats his lap time. (Oscar)
jmo. But I would suggest going on track with the lowest amount of hp you can.

BigStu

i totally agree. I actually have a stock motor teg (DA) too. But as long as my civic is still running strong by then, Im taking it to this event. Its the closest one for me. but 10psi and low compression LS wont make near the tuned 350whp. so it should be more manageable.
But I am in total agreement w/ starting STOCK. its easy enough to see the consequence of too much power in an auto x let alone on a track.

either way cant wait!!!

BigStu

thought i'd follow up w/ some footage from the HPDE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIQFOcr4a6I

turbo4life

this is my first video of my car with a b16 turbo.

my first even was with a b20 v

then a ls turbo

now with this .. the b20 and the ls turbo where much more easier to dive cuz of the broad torque curve and much more torque period.

turbo being a gas guzzler.. well sorta at the track

b20v got 17 mpg N/A

b18b turbo 12mpg 10-12 psi poost

b16 turbo got 12 mpg last time i went not on youtube yet.. on 7-9 psi boost

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2PuUIVMwDQ

this is the first day i took out the b16 turbo and day ened in fail.. oil drain plug fell out cuz some on did not tighten it..

recently i went out with ncracing and it was quuite fun with the b16 and now im going with trackmaster-racing on the 24th sure will be fun too!



my set up

stock b16a
obd2 b SERIES oil pump with a stiffer spring
arp head studs
custom oil cooler
stock oil pan ( i want a 5qt ) good idea to have when racing period and run thicker oil 5w-50 would be the best but hard to find

Stinkycheezmonky

turbo4life, do you have any dyno charts of either turbo setups?

1200 Hobos

iTrader: (7)

No. You will not be racing at all. In order to race you need a racing license. What you're talking about is an HPDE event, it's just a driving event. You'll be going around in circles with similar cars like yours, even daily driver buckets can attend and fly through the corners. It's pretty far from racing though, all beginners start at the bottom and you won't even be able to pass people in the turns, only on long straights as you work up the latter to HPDE4/TT.

BigStu

yeah think of it like a driving school (which it is). (High Performance Driving Event) After your 1st one you'll gain a lot more respect for what actual bumper to bumper racing would require of you. And then from there slowly chip your way up.
I myself am currently at the bottom. ( 1 event :-) ]

Lo-Buck EF

and *POP* goes your track cherry

DougNuts

My opinion on all this is the heat doesn't just come from having a turbo, it comes from the substantial increase in power too.

For a day at an HPDE, a properly sized turbo with low boost would give you a great increase in torque, allowing you to have fun without running insane RPMs. I've found this with my turbo D-series. I rarely even go to redline anymore since the fat torque curve is where the fun is.

The key is to keep the boost level reasonable and do the necessary cooling mods. I suppose a book could be written on the subject, but to say a turbo on a road race car is bad, or even too hard, is the easy way out. Choose the right parts, from manifold design to turbo size and cooling (again), and you will have the same luck as any other track day Honda.

hondaapi

Here is a video of our F/I Integra (420hp).
The car is running since three years without any major problems.
We had to develop an own monifold in combination with an own cooling system.
Car handles 45min turns at very hot weather

Car runs with 240mm WTCC slicks - so no traction problems.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OF3l5rvik4




www.mkr-turbo.de

Stinkycheezmonky

hondaapi, more details and pics of the turbo stuff? Your site is unfortunately in German

hondaapi

It´s because we are from Germany :-)

What do you want to know?
There have been so many things we walked through to make the car as it is.