F23 VTEC HEADSWAP ON TO F22A4 BLOCK With some extras!

[AFAccord]

Wow man. Are you sure you're not having any problems with the motor? With it being freshly built with the 10:1 pistons, manifold work and head work, you should be seeing a lot more than 124whp.

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[Nocture]

damn, I was expecting more. Keep us posted! Don't back down.

[Turbowa]

Dam, my old F22b2 with 150k+ on it did 139hp and 144lb/ft

[hon2984]

ya like I said I was a little dissapointed. F22b1 is rated at 145. I thought I should hit atleast 140whp with the compression bump and bolt-ons. The Head is not the ported and polished F23 head anymore. Its a stock F22b1 head. Its ok though tax returns I'm gonna maybe pull the head and build it with new valve train and a bisi cam, or I'll bottle feed it, I havent figured out which yet.

[GhostAccord]

That's 145 estimated crank HP...IIRC it has been dyno'd at approx 112-118 WHP stock. Running a stock F22B1 head, of the shelf bolt-ons and bumping the compression to 10:1. I would say your right around where you should be. There could be a few more ponies in there with some cam adjustments???????

PnP head & intake manifold, stage 2 cam, beater breathing header (I don't think the OTS one is helping) and you should be able to bump that 124 up very easily.

Good luck for not giving up and being honest with your numbers.

[AFAccord]

Originally Posted by Turbowa

Dam, my old F22b2 with 150k+ on it did 139hp and 144lb/ft

Word.

Originally Posted by hon2984

ya like I said I was a little dissapointed. F22b1 is rated at 145. I thought I should hit atleast 140whp with the compression bump and bolt-ons. The Head is not the ported and polished F23 head anymore. Its a stock F22b1 head. Its ok though tax returns I'm gonna maybe pull the head and build it with new valve train and a bisi cam, or I'll bottle feed it, I havent figured out which yet.

Ah, so are you going to give a second attempt at the F23 head? I'd definitely cam it, THEN spray it. Do you have a dyno chart to post? I'd really like to see the torque curve, there's gotta be room for improvement in your current setup.

Originally Posted by GhostAccord

That's 145 estimated crank HP...IIRC it has been dyno'd at approx 112-118 WHP stock. Running a stock F22B1 head, of the shelf bolt-ons and bumping the compression to 10:1. I would say your right around where you should be. There could be a few more ponies in there with some cam adjustments???????

PnP head & intake manifold, stage 2 cam, beater breathing header (I don't think the OTS one is helping) and you should be able to bump that 124 up very easily.

Good luck for not giving up and being honest with your numbers.

F23's with M/T usually dyno around 130whp stock. With the F22b rated 5hp less, I can't imagine one dyno'ing any less than 120whp. A fresh block with higher compression pistons, otherwise stock should make at least 130-135whp IMO, and probably closer to 150whp with bolt-ons and a tune.

My F23 with minimal bolt-ons picked up 23whp from just a cam gear and a good tune.

Don't give up on her. Keep at it, I'm sure there's more power to be unleashed!

[hon2984]

Thanks Ghost! You seem pretty optomistic. I did expect more, but then again when I started this project with the P&P and the head swap, that was really my first good power adder which is now gone. I was told I could have at least 20 CHP with it. I think I will go with the cylinder head parts next.

AFAccord you think more like me. Where did it go? I did a HP calculator a while back and it was estimated at 170. Are those calculators a joke or are they pretty close? I wouldnt think I would lose 45 to the wheels would I?

Turbowa what mods did it have then? that cant be stock.

Oh well, there is definatly room for improvement!

[Turbowa]

The mods that I have: I/H/E, AEM cam gear and pully's, Bisi custom level 1.5 cam, 8lb flywheel, stock prelude clutch, NGK plug wires, Hondata S300 tuned by locash, Ported TB and port matched IM to TB. Custom cold air box.

The timing was so far off when we started the base hp was 110 and 114lb/tq.

[nus_dogg]

Nice to hear that you got it running properly. I bet once you get the Bisi Stage 2 Vtec Cam in, you'll be pushing around 140whp like me and this other guy. But i'm untune, so until i get it tune, i'll be pushing maybe 2-4 more whp. lol Good build though.

[hon2984]

So I did a few things today. Adjusted/checked valve clearance.
Compression tested it. #1 230 # 235 # 3 238 #4 200 WTF Which explains my low #s

I unfortunatly do not have a leakdown tester. So I havent been able to check it.

I also did another compression calculator and horsepower calculator!

Horsepower calculation 162 at the crank , 137 at the wheels
Compression calculator 11.28:1 Static 11.12:1 Effective

Any body have any ideas?

Possibilities : bad valve seat, cracked head, slightly bent valve?
Any other possibilities that I missed?

I also used one of the snap on mini cameras to stick through the spark plug hole look at the piston, no holes or obvious problems.

[Turbowa]

If you had a bent, burnt valve or seat you would have a slight mis at idle. When you did the comp. test did you do it with the throttle open or closed? Also try and put about a cap of oil in the cycle the re-do the test and see what happens.

Also did you set you base timing and sync it to the ecu before you started to tune it? This can through your numbers way off if you didn't. If you did set your base timing what did you set it at degree wise?

[hon2984]

Originally Posted by Turbowa

If you had a bent, burnt valve or seat you would have a slight mis at idle. When you did the comp. test did you do it with the throttle open or closed? Also try and put about a cap of oil in the cycle the re-do the test and see what happens.

Also did you set you base timing and sync it to the ecu before you started to tune it? This can through your numbers way off if you didn't. If you did set your base timing what did you set it at degree wise?

I did it with the throttle closed.


And I've also had two different people tell me It sounded like it had a miss at idle!
I put a new set of plugs in it! It did seem to idle a bit smoother but idled pretty good before. I will put a pic of the old plugs up tomorrow.

If your talking about ignition timing, 15 degrees BTDC.

All the cylinders contribute on cylinder balance test. Its not like it has no compression but +/- 30psi is way to much!

Put the oil though the sparkplug hole? Could you explain reasoning behind this.`

[GhostAccord]

Compression test should be done with the throttle wide open for correct results. The addition of oil to the cylinder walls acts as if the engine was actually running and adds lubrication to the rings. Don't add too much oil....just a cap full as mentioned above, too much oil can give you false readings as the oil takes up space in the cylinder causing the compression to rise.

[twkdCD595]

ever make any headway identifying your problem with the low numbers?

something is definately not right for your numbers. I had not checked this thread in a while but you probably already knew that by others input and whatnot.

as a point of reference, my bone stock down to a paper filter f22b1 made 128whp/ 136wtrq... through the 5 speed.

I see you said you checked ignition timing but is it sync'd in the ecu as someone stated above? Does the timing #'s match what your reading on a timing light to what the ecu timing is reading? Are you sure vtec is engaging, you say it seems much less noticeable? What a/f is this tuned to? What kind of dyno was this on (some read completely different than others), were the numbers uncorrected or corrected and do you see what correction factor on the dyno chart? Did you ever get to doing a leakdown on it?

[hon2984]

Originally Posted by twkdCD595

ever make any headway identifying your problem with the low numbers?

something is definately not right for your numbers. I had not checked this thread in a while but you probably already knew that by others input and whatnot.

as a point of reference, my bone stock down to a paper filter f22b1 made 128whp/ 136wtrq... through the 5 speed.

I see you said you checked ignition timing but is it sync'd in the ecu as someone stated above? Does the timing #'s match what your reading on a timing light to what the ecu timing is reading? Are you sure vtec is engaging, you say it seems much less noticeable? What a/f is this tuned to? What kind of dyno was this on (some read completely different than others), were the numbers uncorrected or corrected and do you see what correction factor on the dyno chart? Did you ever get to doing a leakdown on it?

Ya I found the problem! You didnt see the compression test results above? I'm down 30 psi on #4. We just got a leak down tester at work but I havent tested it yet. Either way I'm done with this head, it has to come off to change the springs/ retainers anyway. I set on getting a Bisi Stage 2.3 cam regrind, which I will need new springs and retainers for. I'm also getting a Bisi Cam gear. Thanks to TouringAccord I got another F22B1 head to build. It is currently in the process of getting the guides checked, checking for cracks, getting Ported and Polished and a 3 angle valve job. Since I have a new head I dont have to purchase a cam core! I also picked up a Upper timing cover to hide that beautiful cam gear. I want it to look as stock as possible! It will probably be a couple months before I'm ready to headswap it again. I also have another project to tackle. I'm sick of this long geared F series trans. I'm planning on picking up a H22 trans and might put the F series 5th gear in it as well as my Phantom Grip. I hopefully will have that finished by mid summer.

[hon2984]

Whats up everybody! I'm excited to say i just got my "new" cylinder head back. I just had the guides checked, the deck checked, it was checked for cracks. It had a 5 angle valve job and some port work. Last weekend I ordered the stage 2.3 cam from Bisimoto. I also ordered the pro valvespring and retainer kit, as well as the cam gear. I've already got my head gasket set. I do still need to order the head bolts.
I've done some transmission calculators and decided to go with an H23 transmission, with a 195/60/15 It should do 107 mph top of 4th @ 6500rpm. The H22 trans is a little too short geared. I dont want to hit 5th in the 1/4.
Here is some pics of the "new" head.
Before

After

Intake

Exhaust

More to come!

[hon2984]

I got some parts today!




I'm taking the head to a machine shop to have the coolant jacket welded shut this time rather than install a plug. 30$ is pretty cheap. I need to uprade my fuel system before i swap the head. I already have a walbro 255, that I have been neglecting to install. I also need a new fuel pressure regulator, but I havent decided which Aeromotive or AEM?

[GhostAccord]

Are those ITR valve springs or F22A intake springs? Are there any other color markings on the other springs? Blue, sky blue, brown, pink, purple, violet, orange, white or are they all marked with yellow paint?

[michaelprice83]

any flow #'s for the head? good luck. excited to see more F23 heads in use.

[hon2984]

Originally Posted by michaelprice83

any flow #'s for the head? good luck. excited to see more F23 heads in use.

No flow numbers, I just dropped 1500$, in parts (head, cam/valvetrain, P&P), cant really afford #s. Its a F22B1 head.

Originally Posted by GhostAccord

Are those ITR valve springs or F22A intake springs? Are there any other color markings on the other springs? Blue, sky blue, brown, pink, purple, violet, orange, white or are they all marked with yellow paint?

I got the bisimoto pro valve spring/retainer kit (F22B1/F23). They are all marked yellow. I was kinda curious about that myself. I havent taken them out of the package yet, from the look though the plastic they look the same ( diameter, length, # of coils ). I was busy at work yesterday. Then today I had to start on a 03 S10 4wd 4.3L transmission replacement. I havent had any free time at work to inspect them further. I was planning on sending him an email to find out since they were not labled. I'm definatly looking forward to putting the new head on! Just need to check piston to valve clearance, install the walbro and get a new fuel pressure regulator.

[hon2984]

I took care of my coolant jacket problem! I'm sure most of you know that the block was changed in 1994 where a ledge was added near the center exhaust side head bolt. When you put a F22B1 head on a 90-93 block you run into a problem of having a coolant leak due to the lack of the ledge on the 90-93 block. I read the swap info in the FAQ and Gimpy used JB Weld. I didn't want to go that route. On my two previous heads they were drilled, tapped and had a plug installed. This seemed a little safer. On the first F22B1 head it leaked very slowly, a drip here, a drip there, then eventually stopped leaking. I didn't want to run into this problem this time. I took the head to a machine shop, and had it welded. A few passes with a file and a rolac disc and here is how it looks.
Before(This is a pic of the F23 head before it was plugged. The coolant jacket is the same.)

After

[hon2984]

Whats up everyone, I haven't been able to get on the internet at home recently but I have been getting alot done. I recently repainted my other valve cover and my friends H22 valve cover, wrinkle red!



I also installed my walbro 255 fuel pump. I had been procrastinating installing it. I wasn't looking forward to dropping the tank, but it really wasnt that bad. I did it on a two post lift, and a trash can worked great. We lowered it car onto the trash can, and then lifted the car off the tank, It worked out well, the pump install was very straight forward. I also found out that I didnt have a bad AFPR, the pump was maxed out at 38 psi. The new pump went straight to 65 psi, and once I got it running found out that my AFPR was working! Oh well the new AEM AFPR will look better anyway! Sorry no pics though I didn't have the camera that day.

I then started on the new head project. I removed the old head and looked at the valves, piston, and cylinder wall on #4 because it was down 30 psi with the old head. No obvious problems! I then installed my ARP head studs.

I then put the headgasket on, and the timing belt, set valve clearance and rotated it over, with the VTEC pins reversed so the test would be done with VTEC "engaged". Thanks to AFAccord. No indentions in the clay!


I ended up staying way past closing time at the shop, and got everything installed, and started it up. It ran for a few seconds and we shut it off, because the timing belt looked a little loose. It sounded strong and healthy. I still have to finish that up, but I'm almost done. I also have been needing to do an ABS delete. The ABS unit really gets in the way as you can tell. Eventually I will get that done, as well as a battery relocation, to free up some room! What a Horror Story huh.

I had a Ractive carbonfiber intake for a DC2 Integra GSR laying around, and ended up getting it to work with some modification. I will try to get a better pic up soon. I love the look of it!


Once I get it running again I will install my new AEM AFPR. Since the AEM one doesnt come with a gauge I had a service port drilled and tapped to 1/8 NPT for my B&M fuel pressure gauge! That will be installed as well. Thanks to ChessBoxer for the Idea!


More to come, very soon.

[hon2984]

Whats up everyone! Today was a good day!

Yesterday I got the timing belt off, and back on. Today I put the balance shaft belt back on and the rest of everything else finished up. I double checked my valve clearances again, and fired it up! Wow does it sound good! I set my ignition timing, and took it for a test drive! VTEC doesnt kick as hard as it did with the last head, but its got alot more power/torque down low. The tune/ air:fuel is not that far off. I got it to 3/4 throttle in 1st and it wanted to break the tires loose! After three dive cycles, no CEL! I'm so excited. I cant wait to get to the dyno! The cam doesn't sound very lopey. I have a few things left to do, I still need to install my new fuel rail, and AEM AFPR. My next new project will be the transmission. I'm currently looking for a transmission, H22, or H23. I think I'm going to go with a H22 tranny with my Fseries differential, and 5th gear, for good Highway MPG & RPM. I will have some more pics up soon, as well as a video!

[hon2984]

Whats up everyone. I haven't been on here in a while. Got to love horrible internet connections. Any way my compression problem is solved 250psi across the board.
I also have a transmission project going. I picked up a H23 transmision recently. It is getting torn apart and inspected. It is going to have the F series 5th gears installed, and what ever else it might need. My differential with the phantom grip will also be installed. I have also picked up a NOS wet kit. I dont have the correct jets yet, but will work on getting it installed as well. I still need to get it re-tuned. But the shape my third gear syncros are in, I'm hesitant to put it on the dyno. I'm trying to get ready for Import Face-Off. So I will hopefully have some dyno updates and track videos, after Sept. 6.

[low13da9]

what will the last comp. going to.. post some track times, vids. get slicks and dds axles. whats the hp at now? i want to swap a vtec head