F23 VTEC HEADSWAP ON TO F22A4 BLOCK With some extras!

[AFAccord]

I'm pretty sure the stock cam has minimal, if any valve overlap at all. Otherwise it wouldn't do so well on boost. A problem of having exhaust gas in the combustion chamber doesn't make sense. You sure you have a functioning EGR valve that's wired correctly? Did you just pull the one off your F22?

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[hon2984]

yes i transfered the F22 EGR, everything lined up perfect.


the problem i want to figure out is why #1,#2 at idle are not contributing!
new, dizzy,new wires, new plugs, gapped correctly.

I guess I'm going to start with taking off the front cover and checking mechanical timing again. If thats not it i'm going to get a F22B1 head.

[Turbowa]

Have you tried swapping A11 and A6 back to there original location's? The egr and O2 sensor's are located in the same pin location on both ecu's and only need swapped if your using say an integra or civic ecu for hondata. I would start there. And yes if the oil restrictor is still in the block TAKE IT OUT. The head won't get enough oil when v-tec is engaged if you leave it in there.

[hon2984]

I will try that switching them back, but then why does it say anything about switching them in the FAQ forum on the F22b1 head swap thread?

[Turbowa]

Couldn't tell you. The easy way to check and to be sure is, I know some won't trust me. But look at the hondata web site and the pin location's for the ecu's. Then it will make sence.

[hon2984]

Originally Posted by Turbowa

Couldn't tell you. The easy way to check and to be sure is, I know some won't trust me. But look at the hondata web site and the pin location's for the ecu's. Then it will make sence.

I'll check it out!

"94 and 95 Accords have EGR (A11) and the O2 heating (A6) reversed and must be rewired " Hondata

I havent beeen home for a couple days! But a couple days ago I went at it again. I checked compression, all averaging 180 +/- 4 . I decided to check mechanical timing again. . NO HELP . Still ran rough idle, and #1,#2 not contributing at idle, also it threw a code for CKP,CYP almost instantly. It did run better but still not right. Honestly, I will look at the postitions of the valves when i get my new head( should be here by the beginning of next week) F22B1 head. But I'm going to guess that Its backwards to the F22b1 because of the codes i'm getting and the different firing order between the two. But like i said i'm getting a new head. I have already pulled the Head. The car is in the shop waiting!
Any body want this head? Send me a PM if interested. The valve seals and cam seal are new, never been milled, 3 angle valve job, it has been gasket matched and ported and polished by a proffesional. The intake side was left a little rough, to aid in atomization, the exhaust side was way smooth. I have 100$ in the head and 375$ in the port n polish and valve job.
MORE TO COME!


Modified by hon2984 at 6:23 PM 10/1/2008

[dannyb2134]

hey ive been looking into a swap i have a f22b2 in my accord. would this set up work with my engine block??

[hon2984]

Hey whats up everybody
I got my new head (F22B1) today! I test fit the manifolds, everything lined up perfect I will have to gasket match the head to the F23 IM gasket. I will be using my ported F23 IM. I have to drill, tap and install a new plug in the sand casting, like before.
Since it didnt work with the F23 head, I'm going to compare the two at TDC and see if any thing is different. I'm confident it will be exactly backwards (which is why there would be no mechanical interference).
I will start on it again friday.

[hon2984]

whats up everybody, I have the new head on . everything is put back together. I had an idle surge to 3000 which was a big vacuum leak. for some reason the F23 IM gasket will not work on a F22b1 head, i figured it would work considering i'm using the F23 IM. never the less that was the problem i installed a F22B1 IM gasket and it cured it. I still have a few things to take care of. It runs alot better than before. I do have one code #4 ( CKP signal ). which i still have to diagnose, i'm pretty sure its in the wiring considering i tried a F22b1 dizzy on it and had to change some wiring ( external coil converted to internal ).
I took it for a test drive and it runs great down low. for some reason it is setting the revlimit a 3500 rpm, which i'm sure has to be related to the code #4.
it is a brand new dizzy.

anybody know what would happen if the wires on the sensor were backwards
( just on the CKP sensor)?

Originally Posted by AFAccord

I'm pretty sure the stock cam has minimal, if any valve overlap at all. Otherwise it wouldn't do so well on boost. A problem of having exhaust gas in the combustion chamber doesn't make sense.

You sure you have a functioning EGR valve that's wired correctly? Did you just pull the one off your F22?

The problem with the EGR was the vacuum line routed incorrectly. problem fixed

anybody had a problem like the rev limit like i'm talking about?

more to come!


Modified by hon2984 at 10:09 PM 10/15/2008

[hon2984]

wow more problems. so i have figured out my rev limit problem! I replaced the brand new dizzy with another brand new dizzy that both tested good with my voltmeter, i was thinking that maybe there was a problem with the gap between the reluctor wheel and the CKP sensor, or just a problem with the reluctor wheel in general, so i switched it out, no help. wiring tested good with the engine hot and cold so no wiring problems.
I then removed the case to the ECU again. I previously removed it and took a quick look at it to make sure i saw no problems or a chip. When i looked at it before it looked fine, virgin no big burn spots. Well when i looked at it again yesterday i noticed a very small burn spot about 3/16" in diameter, which was only showing on one side of the board. I have a good friend thats in tech school for computers he looked at it and said that it was connecting two traces.
So now i'm going to be getting a P28 and having a tuner socket it and load a base map and then street tune it, ASAP.
What do you guys think about the VTEC engagement point? I know that right now i can do 80mph in 5th below 3500 rpm! have it set at 4500rpm? should i raise the rev limit 500rpm, or is that not safe on stock valve train?




Modified by hon2984 at 10:22 AM 10/26/2008

[hon2984]

Update: Well I'm in the process of getting a tune but I have changed the ECU and some things have changed. I took my car to a guy that seems like he is pretty talented! I'm pretty sure the guy didnt have to much time, and wanted to see the car in person and go from there. He will be street tuning it with a wideband and crome. He didnt have a p28 chipped on hand but said he would have one pretty quick. He said he had run into a similar problem with a CRX that he had just tuned. He said the problem was a weak connection at the harness/ecu.
We started off just swapping a P14 (92-95 Prelude H22). I did swap A11 and A6 back, and fired it up. No CELs, and it fired right up, and it also reved above 3500 I took it for a drive and It fell on its face at 5000 and CEL pops on. Code 23, knock sensor! I dont think the car has a knock sensor. Any way progress was made, I did have a bad ECU, the POA anyway. Hopefully I will get a P28 in a couple days ,socketed with a basemap, to hold me over untill i can get it back up there for the tune.

[AFAccord]

Good to hear! Keep us updated!

[hon2984]

Update: I got my chipped and sockected P28 from Phearable.net today!

I installed it and fired it up. No CEL lights I then let it idle to temp and took it for a drive. I couldnt help my self, right when i got into the street i stomped it, and it happened. VTEC kicked in strong as hell. It definately pulls hard up top. Honestly it felt like an H22A just with a limited RPM range. It doesnt seem to pull as hard as it should below that point, but it hasnt been tuned yet. Then I checked over all the fluids, I felt like it was idleing a little low ( 500 ), so I adjusted the Idle a little and it set a code 14 ( IACV or Bad ECU ) could this have been caused by adjusting the idle and not resetting the ECU? Any way I drove it again and VTEC still kicks in? Is that because of the ECU I'm using, it will still kick in in limp mode? Anyway I'm so happy it ran so much better than before! Hopefull very soon I will get it tuned, weather permitting. Once I get that done I will post a video

Update: The IACV had a loose connection, I replaced it. Thats what was causing the low idle! Now there is no check engine lights. I unfortunatly still have not got it tuned, due to conflicting schedules. Hopefully I will get some RC injectors soon as well. I just picked up a pair of brembo crossdrilled sport rotors!

[GhostAccord]

I'm not sure who it was spreading those false statements but I remember someone saying that VTEC wouldn't engage with a CEL on. Yes it can but it depends on wht CEL code your reading. Not all CEL codes cause the ECU to go into fail safe mode aka Limp Mode.

As for your Code 14 you should adjust your idle properly. Bring your engine up to temp and disconnect the IACV. Adjust the idle to the desired rpm. With the IACV unplugged the target RPM is 550 ±50. Turn off the car plug the IACV back in and reset the ECU.

That should give your proper base idle or 750 ±50 RPM. If your having idle problems after setting the base idle then I would look at the settings in your base map. That is why they call them base maps. These small things cannot be dialed in on a computer alone. Get it tuned ASAP....

[FNEG]

well good luck with it so did you ever find the differances in the two heads b1 and f23a and do you still have it for sale

[hon2984]

Well I still havent been able to get it tuned yet. It was 6 degrees the last chance I had to go. But I have picked up a few things. I just ordered an AEM UEGO gauge and wideband O2. Hopefully will have that in a couple days!
I Installed the Brembo rotors!

Thats not brake dust! Winter time road soot.
I also got a hold of some DSM 450cc injectors to be ready for the tune.

Hopefully I will get to go Sunday!

[hon2984]

Hey whats up everybody! I've found a different tuner! I talked to Revline Motorsports today! They do tuning with crome, and other systems as well I'm sure. Glad I dont have to chunk out 600$ for S300. It looks like I'm going to have to schedule a week in advance, which is no big deal. It will be dyno tuned. Only 350$ for the tune and about 50-60$ in gas. I sure some of you may have seen some of their work. Like the Noble Tortoise that ran 9.85 @ 155mph .And a bad ass dyno video and 4 hour road trip. I will post a video!

[GhostAccord]

It's nice to find out that you can save some money on a tune. Specially when you don't need to spend that kind of extra chash on an overpriced ECU!

For some numbers and a vid.

Good luck on tuning day,

[Nocture]

Got it tuned?

[hon2984]

No still havent been able to get up there yet. I found out today that I have to tackle the DSM injector install. I test fit the DSM 450 cc injectors today but it looks like I will have to get a different set of gromets and modify them to fit the injectors. Luckily I have a couple intake manifolds laying around to modify them on! It shows in the FAQ forum how to dremil them out to fit the DSMs. I'm just happy I dont have to remove the intake manifold to prevent rubber shards in the cylinder. Junk parts are awesome!

I also installed my AEM UEGO off an on the past two days. The wiring was very simple to run. Since I no longer have cruise control, I used The hole for it to run the wideband wiring to the downpipe. I still need to make a rubber gromet for it so it looks nice and clean. Other than that it was power and ground. I removed the two plastic trim pieces for the dash bolts, and removed the bolts and it gave me about 3/8" movement to tuck the wiring back. After that I had to tuck the rest of the wiring under the dash. Then took it to the exhaust shop to get the bung welded in, and I was done. I'm still waiting on my autometer gauge pod ( 94-97 ) hopefully I can get it to fit better than this universal. After driving on a couple trips, it seems to run rich? Sometimes all the way to 11:1, at very light throttle. which makes me wonder. It idles around 13.9:1. I have seen it dive lean as well when stepping into the throttle say 2000 rpm in 4th @ 16.7:1. I know I'm at 43psi fuel pressure. Any body have an Idea? Is it very common for an injector to get stuck open. I know that on a cylinder balance test they all contribute.


When I talked to Revline they told me to bring the correct heat range plugs. I have the regular NGK plugs in there right now. Is there some kind of calculation that needs to be done or how do I know if I have the correct or incorrect heat range plugs?

Well I have the money to get the tune, I think I'm gonna schedule the day tomorrow! I'm gonna put in some new axles and sway bar end links as well before the tune!

[AFAccord]

The DSMs should be a nice upgrade, but my guess is the tuner will have to hold them back a bit. I was seeing about 94% duty cycle on my OEM injectors around the 170whp level, which is higher than I was comfortable with.

I wouldn't look too deep into your AFRs right now. Phearable's basemap (for the F23 at least) isn't very good, so your 'tune' right now probably VERY rough at best. Also, AEM UEGO's are known for being finicky and inaccurate at times. Personally, until I'm boosted I'll just let my tuner use his LC-1 when tuning, and just use the primary O2 for closed loop when he's not. I don't see much point monitoring your AFRs on a fully street/dyno tuned mild NA setup, beyond trouble shooting a problem.

As for plugs, the tuner should be well adept at 'reading' the plugs, and that's the only way to know whether you need a colder plug (examining the coloration on the plugs' ground straps). From my experience, the stock heat range plug (I believe it's a 6 or maybe even a 5) is fine for stock and slightly higher compression. My calculations show that with my milled head, I motor is probably around 10.0/1 compression, and I haven't had to move to a colder plug yet.

I can't wait to see some dyno numbers. What numbers are you expecting?

EDIT: You're looking for 190hp @ the crank, so maybe 160-165whp?

Do you plan on degreeing in the cam? A reground Bisimoto F23 cam would compliment the bump in compression nicely.

[hon2984]

scheduled for next friday to get tuned!

[alterdcreations]

there's a easy 10 hp in the upper manifold swap.

[hon2984]

I knocked out a couple more things today. I removed the dash about six months ago, when I figued out that some of the light bulbs in the gauge pod had been removed, CEL and ABS. Ever since then I've had an ABS code. I pulled it but never really looked into it much further than that. Any way I put in some new drive axles today and realized that some genuis put non-abs axles in, makes since why the sensor wasnt picking up a signal!

I also got rid of the hideous yellow air filter! For a crispy new red one!

I've also modified some D16 intake manifold/injector gromets to fit the DSM injectors.

Very anxious and waiting for friday!

[hon2984]

Well I got up there today!
I really wasnt very impressed with the numbers, I had estimated a little more. It turned out 97 HP the first run. The video is the 4th and 5th pulls. It ended up a 124 HP 125 TQ on a dyno jet. He was able to get the A/F set without the DSM injectors. But he did manage to extract 27 WHP out of it. VTEC doesnt kick as hard anymore but it does run alot better.