Official Hardtop Thread
07-07-2008, 02:08 PM
#1
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Thread Starter
Official Hardtop Thread
I made this thread on another forum and felt this forum could use the same info.
If someone wants to host some pictures of all the hardtops on a reliable server that won't disappear in a year, I'll include pictures as well.
Post corrections and I'll update accordingly... currently, I don't have any info on the Amuse, Mooncraft, etc hardtops. If someone wants to provide the info, I'll update this thread.
The Basic HOW-TO-INSTALL Thread
The PDF of HOW-TO-INSTALL OEM hardtop PDF
Thread on HOW-TO-REPLACE/REMOVE Softtop (Softtop does NOT need to be removed to install any hardtops listed)
I used the softtop replacement thread to get me started on what I needed to completely remove my softtop. I didn't need a softtop anymore...
For Hardware to Install the hardtop, look at the bottom of this post.
OEM Softtop (updated ...)
- 60-65lbs (To be confirmed)
- vinyl
- comes with your car, stupid
- usually black
- complete use of trunk
- Most owners say it fits perfectly (10/10 for fitment)
- around $900 for the canvas alone
- total cost installed, around $1500-$2000
OEM Hardtop (updated ...)
- 47lbs
- aluminum
- comes with rear glass w/ defroster, weather stripping, retainers, etc.
- comes painted with stock colours
- complete use of trunk
- requires OEM hardtop install kit for some years, from hardtopguy.com (or where-ever) - $500
- Most owners say it fits perfectly (10/10 for fitment)
- around $2500
- total cost with install kit, around $2500-$3000
Mugen FRP (updated ...)
- 44lbs
- fibreglass
- comes with rear plexiglass, weather stripping, retainers, etc.
- most owners say it fits almost perfectly, requiring some adjustment. (9/10 for fitment)
- with trunk fully opened, may touch hardtop. Trunk bumpstops may need to be adjusted.
- around $3000
- add paint $200-$500ish
- total cost with install kit, around $3200-$3500
Mugen CF (updated ...)
- 34lbs
- 1x1 dry CF
- comes with rear plexiglass, weather stripping, retainers, etc.
- with trunk fully opened, may touch hardtop. Trunk bumpstops may need to be adjusted.
- most owners say it fits almost perfectly, requiring some adjustment. (9/10 for fitment)
- total cost, around $6000
Seibon CF (updated ...)
- 31lbs
- dual-weave wet CF
- styled after the Mugen
- comes with rear plexiglass
- with trunk fully opened, may touch hardtop. Trunk bumpstops may need to be adjusted. I used 2 8mm bolts and screwed them into the body and used weatherstripping on the trunk bracket to soften the blow
- to install, requires seibon install kit from hardtopguy.com (or where-ever) which provides weather-stripping, retainers, etc. - $1700
- most owners say it fits almost perfectly, requiring some adjustment. (9/10 for fitment)
- around $3000
- total cost to have it mounted: $4700
C-Wings CF (updated ...)
- 34lbs
- single-weave wet CF
- styled after the Mugen
- comes with a hardtop
- requires a rear window... unknown where to get.
- with trunk fully opened, may touch hardtop. Trunk bumpstops may need to be adjusted.
- requires seibon install kit from hardtopguy.com which provides weather-stripping, retainers, etc. - $1700
- most owners say it fits very well, requiring adjustment. (7/10 for fitment)
- around $2000
- total cost to have it mounted with weather-stripping and window: $4400-$5200
HARDWARE NEEDS
Note: this largely depends on which hardtop you get and where you get it from. Also, the following list was pulled for a 2004. There are things you do not need if you buy an OEM hardtop
- front latches (the ones from the softtop will work). Item 8/12 - $79.21 / $69.26
- rear latches Item 13/18 - $90.57/ea
- rear catches Item 19/20 - $175.50 / $204.57
- weather stripping for side windows Item 9/14 - $101.19/ea
- retainers for weather stripping for side windows Item 8/13 - $61.79/ea
- rear lower weather stripping Item 10 - $181.09
- rear defroster wiring Item 3 - $31.10
You'll also need the screws to attach the retainer to the hardtop. Those can be found pretty cheaply at a local hardware store or Lowes/Home Depot.
Now, the Hardtopguy's kit consists of:
- rear catchers
- wiring harness
- side brushes
as of right now, it's $500 for 02-07. If you order from HondaAutomotiveParts, you'll save close to $50.
Likewise, the Seibon Hardtop Kit (needed for C-wings, Seibon, etc), it'll cost you $1800...
Order it from HAP, you'll save close to $300-$400. I'm sure there are other places that might be a bit cheaper too, but HAP has always been pretty fast with shipping, and pretty cheap.
Modified by Driven at 3:22 PM 7/7/2008
Modified by Driven at 7:55 PM 7/7/2008
Modified by Driven at 11:54 PM 7/13/2008
If someone wants to host some pictures of all the hardtops on a reliable server that won't disappear in a year, I'll include pictures as well.
Post corrections and I'll update accordingly... currently, I don't have any info on the Amuse, Mooncraft, etc hardtops. If someone wants to provide the info, I'll update this thread.
The Basic HOW-TO-INSTALL Thread
The PDF of HOW-TO-INSTALL OEM hardtop PDF
Thread on HOW-TO-REPLACE/REMOVE Softtop (Softtop does NOT need to be removed to install any hardtops listed)
I used the softtop replacement thread to get me started on what I needed to completely remove my softtop. I didn't need a softtop anymore...
For Hardware to Install the hardtop, look at the bottom of this post.
OEM Softtop (updated ...)
- 60-65lbs (To be confirmed)
- vinyl
- comes with your car, stupid
- usually black
- complete use of trunk
- Most owners say it fits perfectly (10/10 for fitment)
- around $900 for the canvas alone
- total cost installed, around $1500-$2000
OEM Hardtop (updated ...)
- 47lbs
- aluminum
- comes with rear glass w/ defroster, weather stripping, retainers, etc.
- comes painted with stock colours
- complete use of trunk
- requires OEM hardtop install kit for some years, from hardtopguy.com (or where-ever) - $500
- Most owners say it fits perfectly (10/10 for fitment)
- around $2500
- total cost with install kit, around $2500-$3000
Mugen FRP (updated ...)
- 44lbs
- fibreglass
- comes with rear plexiglass, weather stripping, retainers, etc.
- most owners say it fits almost perfectly, requiring some adjustment. (9/10 for fitment)
- with trunk fully opened, may touch hardtop. Trunk bumpstops may need to be adjusted.
- around $3000
- add paint $200-$500ish
- total cost with install kit, around $3200-$3500
Mugen CF (updated ...)
- 34lbs
- 1x1 dry CF
- comes with rear plexiglass, weather stripping, retainers, etc.
- with trunk fully opened, may touch hardtop. Trunk bumpstops may need to be adjusted.
- most owners say it fits almost perfectly, requiring some adjustment. (9/10 for fitment)
- total cost, around $6000
Seibon CF (updated ...)
- 31lbs
- dual-weave wet CF
- styled after the Mugen
- comes with rear plexiglass
- with trunk fully opened, may touch hardtop. Trunk bumpstops may need to be adjusted. I used 2 8mm bolts and screwed them into the body and used weatherstripping on the trunk bracket to soften the blow
- to install, requires seibon install kit from hardtopguy.com (or where-ever) which provides weather-stripping, retainers, etc. - $1700
- most owners say it fits almost perfectly, requiring some adjustment. (9/10 for fitment)
- around $3000
- total cost to have it mounted: $4700
C-Wings CF (updated ...)
- 34lbs
- single-weave wet CF
- styled after the Mugen
- comes with a hardtop
- requires a rear window... unknown where to get.
- with trunk fully opened, may touch hardtop. Trunk bumpstops may need to be adjusted.
- requires seibon install kit from hardtopguy.com which provides weather-stripping, retainers, etc. - $1700
- most owners say it fits very well, requiring adjustment. (7/10 for fitment)
- around $2000
- total cost to have it mounted with weather-stripping and window: $4400-$5200
HARDWARE NEEDS
Note: this largely depends on which hardtop you get and where you get it from. Also, the following list was pulled for a 2004. There are things you do not need if you buy an OEM hardtop
- front latches (the ones from the softtop will work). Item 8/12 - $79.21 / $69.26
- rear latches Item 13/18 - $90.57/ea
- rear catches Item 19/20 - $175.50 / $204.57
- weather stripping for side windows Item 9/14 - $101.19/ea
- retainers for weather stripping for side windows Item 8/13 - $61.79/ea
- rear lower weather stripping Item 10 - $181.09
- rear defroster wiring Item 3 - $31.10
You'll also need the screws to attach the retainer to the hardtop. Those can be found pretty cheaply at a local hardware store or Lowes/Home Depot.
Now, the Hardtopguy's kit consists of:
- rear catchers
- wiring harness
- side brushes
as of right now, it's $500 for 02-07. If you order from HondaAutomotiveParts, you'll save close to $50.
Likewise, the Seibon Hardtop Kit (needed for C-wings, Seibon, etc), it'll cost you $1800...
Order it from HAP, you'll save close to $300-$400. I'm sure there are other places that might be a bit cheaper too, but HAP has always been pretty fast with shipping, and pretty cheap.
Modified by Driven at 3:22 PM 7/7/2008
Modified by Driven at 7:55 PM 7/7/2008
Modified by Driven at 11:54 PM 7/13/2008
07-07-2008, 02:16 PM
#2
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
Re: Official Hardtop Thread (Driven)
Seibon Hardtop Review
The fitment is almost perfect, except for two things:
1. front driver's side latch bolt hole was off by about 2cm (pictures below). This required expanding the hole for the stock latch assembly.
2. minor windnoise coming from driver's side window at speeds above 80mph. Everywhere else is pretty quiet.
I haven't done a water/leak test.
Pictures of the Seibon (mixture of iphone/camcorder pics):
Close ups of the gap. The second pic makes it look pretty bad, but it's almost perfect:
Close up of the gap near the driver's door. The weatherstripping is the rubber that you see.
Fitment at the windshield.
and the driver's side latch issue. You can see where I drilled out the latch a little to let it bolt to the top so i can use both screws:
The fitment is almost perfect, except for two things:
1. front driver's side latch bolt hole was off by about 2cm (pictures below). This required expanding the hole for the stock latch assembly.
2. minor windnoise coming from driver's side window at speeds above 80mph. Everywhere else is pretty quiet.
I haven't done a water/leak test.
Pictures of the Seibon (mixture of iphone/camcorder pics):
Close ups of the gap. The second pic makes it look pretty bad, but it's almost perfect:
Close up of the gap near the driver's door. The weatherstripping is the rubber that you see.
Fitment at the windshield.
and the driver's side latch issue. You can see where I drilled out the latch a little to let it bolt to the top so i can use both screws:
07-07-2008, 03:54 PM
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Re: Official Hardtop Thread (joey1320)
$200-$500 for CHEAP paint on the Mugen FRP. The nice thing is that it's finished pretty well from Mugen direct so it doesn't require alot of prep work. I think the paint should be $500-$1000 honestly, just an FYI
Also, you don't need alot of the stripping, catchers, molding and such with Mugen FRP either, not sure about CF but i'm sure they BOTH come with everything needed for install as i did mine without a hitch.
Modified by Firstoost at 5:11 PM 7/7/2008
Also, you don't need alot of the stripping, catchers, molding and such with Mugen FRP either, not sure about CF but i'm sure they BOTH come with everything needed for install as i did mine without a hitch.
Modified by Firstoost at 5:11 PM 7/7/2008
07-07-2008, 06:55 PM
#6
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
Re: Official Hardtop Thread (Firstoost)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Firstoost »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">$200-$500 for CHEAP paint on the Mugen FRP. The nice thing is that it's finished pretty well from Mugen direct so it doesn't require alot of prep work. I think the paint should be $500-$1000 honestly, just an FYI</TD></TR></TABLE>
It's hard to tell really... you could go to Maaco and get it done for $200 and have a pretty good paintjob...and go to a maaco across town and get a crappy one.
Obviously, the more you pay, the better quality of work you can expect. Paint is a very very hard thing to estimate.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Also, you don't need alot of the stripping, catchers, molding and such with Mugen FRP either, not sure about CF but i'm sure they BOTH come with everything needed for install as i did mine without a hitch.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yep, as indicated above... both Mugen HTs shouldn't require any additional hardware.
It's hard to tell really... you could go to Maaco and get it done for $200 and have a pretty good paintjob...and go to a maaco across town and get a crappy one.
Obviously, the more you pay, the better quality of work you can expect. Paint is a very very hard thing to estimate.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Also, you don't need alot of the stripping, catchers, molding and such with Mugen FRP either, not sure about CF but i'm sure they BOTH come with everything needed for install as i did mine without a hitch.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yep, as indicated above... both Mugen HTs shouldn't require any additional hardware.
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07-08-2008, 03:34 PM
#10
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
Re: Official Hardtop Thread (MugenAP2)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MugenAP2 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Sorry but the Seibon does not fit as well as you stated!</TD></TR></TABLE>
Thanks for not contributing at all...
considering I did a crapload of research across three forums and the ONLY people to say the Seibon doesn't fit well are the folks who never owned one or folks who had an OEM one and compared it to the Seibon... which is pretty rough considering how well the OEM fits.
Thanks for not contributing at all...
considering I did a crapload of research across three forums and the ONLY people to say the Seibon doesn't fit well are the folks who never owned one or folks who had an OEM one and compared it to the Seibon... which is pretty rough considering how well the OEM fits.
07-08-2008, 05:42 PM
#12
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Re: Official Hardtop Thread (Firstoost)
Trust me I have seen them all. Compared to the fitment of the Mugen and OEM it is a 7 out of 10. Mugen is 9 out of 10 just like the OEM, which all they need is to be adjusted just a little.
07-08-2008, 08:15 PM
#13
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Thread Starter
Re: Official Hardtop Thread (Firstoost)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Firstoost »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Did Seibon directly copy the Mugen top or are there any differences?</TD></TR></TABLE>
looking at them side-by-side, it's hard to tell them apart. there are very minor differences but yeah, Seibon basically ripped off the design.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MugenAP2 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Compared to the fitment of the Mugen and OEM it is a 7 out of 10. Mugen is 9 out of 10 just like the OEM, which all they need is to be adjusted just a little.</TD></TR></TABLE>
well, considering you don't own a seibon, your opinion about the Seibon is basically useless. I'll stick to owner's opinions vs. your mugen-nutswinging opinion. Wanna post up some pictures of fitment for the Mugen, go ahead... that'll add more value than your opinions on something you don't own. Like me saying a Ferrari 430 doesn't handle very well... without ever driving one, but since I've seen one get sideways....i'm all of a sudden an expert.
I've posted pictures of the Seibon top and it's fitment, and so have others, and it's damn near perfect (except what I've mentioned above) and on par with the Mugen.
The only hardtop that owners have said doesn't fit perfectly or near perfect is the cwings.
looking at them side-by-side, it's hard to tell them apart. there are very minor differences but yeah, Seibon basically ripped off the design.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MugenAP2 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Compared to the fitment of the Mugen and OEM it is a 7 out of 10. Mugen is 9 out of 10 just like the OEM, which all they need is to be adjusted just a little.</TD></TR></TABLE>
well, considering you don't own a seibon, your opinion about the Seibon is basically useless. I'll stick to owner's opinions vs. your mugen-nutswinging opinion. Wanna post up some pictures of fitment for the Mugen, go ahead... that'll add more value than your opinions on something you don't own. Like me saying a Ferrari 430 doesn't handle very well... without ever driving one, but since I've seen one get sideways....i'm all of a sudden an expert.
I've posted pictures of the Seibon top and it's fitment, and so have others, and it's damn near perfect (except what I've mentioned above) and on par with the Mugen.
The only hardtop that owners have said doesn't fit perfectly or near perfect is the cwings.
07-09-2008, 03:59 AM
#14
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Re: Official Hardtop Thread (Driven)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Driven »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I'll stick to owner's opinions vs. your mugen-nutswinging opinion.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Ohhhh what a burn Josh! lol Bring the S tonight to Flannigans kthxbye.
I'll stick to owner's opinions vs. your mugen-nutswinging opinion.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Ohhhh what a burn Josh! lol Bring the S tonight to Flannigans kthxbye.
07-09-2008, 05:52 AM
#15
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Re: Official Hardtop Thread (Under_Pressure)
HAHA!!!! I don't own a Seibon because of the fitment... Why waste my money! Plus the people that I know own them said the same thing I just told you!
07-09-2008, 07:09 AM
#16
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Thread Starter
Re: Official Hardtop Thread (MugenAP2)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MugenAP2 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> I don't own a Seibon because of the fitment... </TD></TR></TABLE>
My pictures show how the Seibon fits and it has the recommended OEM 8mm gap.
Yet, you complain about the fitment of the Seibon but don't offer any proof... show us. I assume you have a camera, if not a cellphone that can take pictures... show us.
while you're at it, take pictures of the fitment of the Mugen and show us. Hell, I'll host the pictures.
I'm just tired of the Mugen fanbois bashing everything that isn't Mugen without any facts, proof, or experience to back it. Mugen makes great products... no question, but to dismiss other products cause they lack the holy badge of Mugen, is retarded.
My pictures show how the Seibon fits and it has the recommended OEM 8mm gap.
Yet, you complain about the fitment of the Seibon but don't offer any proof... show us. I assume you have a camera, if not a cellphone that can take pictures... show us.
while you're at it, take pictures of the fitment of the Mugen and show us. Hell, I'll host the pictures.
I'm just tired of the Mugen fanbois bashing everything that isn't Mugen without any facts, proof, or experience to back it. Mugen makes great products... no question, but to dismiss other products cause they lack the holy badge of Mugen, is retarded.
07-09-2008, 04:50 PM
#17
Honda-Tech Member
Re: Official Hardtop Thread (Driven)
I will be buying an S2000 this winter and am wanting a hard top for it. I would like to buy the FRP Mugen top but would like to know how easy it comes off and on?
If it is a real PITA I will just stick with OEM but if it mounts the same as the OEM I will get the Mugen
Great topic!
If it is a real PITA I will just stick with OEM but if it mounts the same as the OEM I will get the Mugen
Great topic!
07-09-2008, 04:57 PM
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Re: Official Hardtop Thread (Scotty Dosent Know)
Two cathcers and two rear clamps... Seems easy enough. If you can't do it in under two minutes with two people something is SERIOUSLY wrong.
07-09-2008, 05:49 PM
#19
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Thread Starter
Re: Official Hardtop Thread (Firstoost)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Firstoost »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Two cathcers and two rear clamps... Seems easy enough. If you can't do it in under two minutes with two people something is SERIOUSLY wrong. </TD></TR></TABLE>
+2
all of the hardtops listed pop off the same way. normal softtop like latches for the front, and two "levers" for the rear. unlock them all and you lift it off the car.
Some guys have a pulley system to lift it off the car in their garage, others have a hardtop carrier, etc.
</TD></TR></TABLE>+2
all of the hardtops listed pop off the same way. normal softtop like latches for the front, and two "levers" for the rear. unlock them all and you lift it off the car.
Some guys have a pulley system to lift it off the car in their garage, others have a hardtop carrier, etc.
07-09-2008, 09:29 PM
#20
Honda-Tech Member
Re: Official Hardtop Thread (Driven)
Excelent! Looks like I will be buying the Mugen top when the time comes
Where is the best place to buy it? King motorsports maybe?
Where is the best place to buy it? King motorsports maybe?
07-10-2008, 03:00 AM
#21
Honda-Tech Member
Re: Official Hardtop Thread (MugenAP2)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MugenAP2 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">HAHA!!!! I don't own a Seibon because of the fitment... Why waste my money! Plus the people that I know own them said the same thing I just told you!</TD></TR></TABLE>
put me on that list also, i had a seibon trunk after all the raved review on the forum, it fitted worst than my old ****, cheaper and supposedly lesser quality vis piece.
will never spend another dime on anything seibon now
put me on that list also, i had a seibon trunk after all the raved review on the forum, it fitted worst than my old ****, cheaper and supposedly lesser quality vis piece.
will never spend another dime on anything seibon now
07-20-2008, 08:58 PM
#24
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Thread Starter
Re: Official Hardtop Thread (MugenAP2)
glad to know MugenAP2 failed to provide any pictures... just a hater eh?
anywho... Mods, sticky? or add to the other helpful threads maybe?
anywho... Mods, sticky? or add to the other helpful threads maybe?
07-21-2008, 02:56 AM
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Re: Official Hardtop Thread (Driven)
are we talking about the same MugenAP2 on s2ki who has 2 sets of Mugen MF10's? 
no need to be calling him a hater...maybe he'll chime in later...
http://www.s2ki.com/forums/ind...68&hl=
no need to be calling him a hater...maybe he'll chime in later...
http://www.s2ki.com/forums/ind...68&hl=