Dyno-ed my B20 non-VTEC engine

[Nova_Dust]

This engine began as a stock B20B from an Orthia wagan. I daily and race with it for about 2 years and the engine held up fine. It has a Spoon flywheel, stock ITR clutch and 4.785FD with Kazz 1.5 clutch type LSD. Then I began to collect parts for this engine, wanted to stay non-VTEC. I started with a set of new Crower 62405 first gen cams, but the amount of extra head work turned me away. Afterall, this car is still a daily and I have to stay realistic about it. So I got a BC0022 cams instead. Engine was sent in for head work by Gord Bush, a local Honda guru that does great work. Then I wrapped up some more money and had the new head mated to the block and first, it was street tuned. Then about 2 month after, I dyno tuned it yesterday. Andrew, a local tuner did both the street and dyno tune. Base run from street tune was 155/122 IIRC, then this is the end result: Setup: Stock B20 bottom P8R head ported and valve work, mild version Crower Ti valvetrain Brian Crower 0022 cams HKS cam gears set at -1 intake +3 exhaust RS 68mm TB Blox IM ported at TB and runner side OEM B20 3 layer head gasket OEM valve seals RC 370cc injectors ITR fuel pump (134lph) ARC intake chamber mated with HKS mushroom (2 ply filter) Maxim Works tri Y header (generic B series I believe) CTR cat. 2.5" catback Throttle open is only at 90%, I am not sure if it has to do with the actual TB or accelrator cable, because I am still using stock Y7 one, not Si/SiR one. We did about 18 runs in close to 2 hours. We tried 0,0 and also +3/-3, but -1/+3 yield the best result. At one point, the motor dynoed 150/120 because of the cam gear setup. We didn't adjust the cam gears beyond +3 or -3 degree, because I wasn't sure if the head was milled or just surfaced, so didn't want to risk it. Overall, I am happy with the result. I road race and I had a lot of fun with just stock B20. With this new setup, hopefully 2008 season will be a more interesting one. Comments and suggestions welcome. Thanks for reading guys. Modified by Nova_Dust at 9:46 AM 5/6/2008 Modified by Nova_Dust at 9:48 AM 5/6/2008

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[Nova_Dust]

Also, cam gear bolt has one slightly stripped, anyone has a suggested replacement bolt? Something from Home Depot perhaps?

Thanks

[mar778c]

Very nice power.

[clean rice]

Solid #'s man! I'm assuming you're using a LS tranny? How does that with a 4.7FD compare to a B16/B18C transmission?

[Tonio]

Great numbers for sure. I bet that thing rips!! What chassis is it on?
As far as the bolt goes...
What size is it? 1/4 inch SAE? 6mm Metric?
If the treads are completely gone, try using a size bigger tap. If not try running a tap through the hole and see if you can clean it up. Hope this helps.

[Nova_Dust]

Originally Posted by clean rice

Solid #'s man! I'm assuming you're using a LS tranny? How does that with a 4.7FD compare to a B16/B18C transmission?

Thanks. I am using JDM 98 spec tranny, stock 4.785 with Kazz. I believe 2nd and 3rd gear are GSR. 120km at 4100rpm or there about. But I am using 225/45/15 tires now, so rev is slightly different. But at any rate, it is hard to stay under 3000rpm.

Originally Posted by Tonio

Great numbers for sure. I bet that thing rips!! What chassis is it on?
As far as the bolt goes...
What size is it? 1/4 inch SAE? 6mm Metric?
If the treads are completely gone, try using a size bigger tap. If not try running a tap through the hole and see if you can clean it up. Hope this helps.

Thanks. I am using EK hatch chassis. Car without me is about 2200lbs, with half cage in it. I am more leaning towards cutting weight off of the car as oppose to increase the hp.

The bolts is metric I believe. The thread is not stripped, but the hex shape is more like rounded now. I guess you can still make it come loose if you try, but won't last very long. The cam gears are brand new and only did like 5 or 6 adjustments and it is slightly rounded

[flesh199]

Nova_Dust

this kind of air filter costed me 10whp/2wtq on my setup.If you can change it

[Nova_Dust]

Originally Posted by flesh199

Nova_Dust

this kind of air filter costed me 10whp/2wtq on my setup.If you can change it

What should I do? Open TB? No ARC chamber? Please enlighten me, thanks.

[Rollo Lawson]

Originally Posted by Nova_Dust

What should I do? Open TB? No ARC chamber? Please enlighten me, thanks.

tuned intake length w/v-stack. Gord Bush and Zman FTMFW. good numbers, Nova

[Nova_Dust]

Originally Posted by Rollo Lawson

tuned intake length w/v-stack. Gord Bush and Zman FTMFW. good numbers, Nova

Gord and Andrew, they know their stuff fo sho

So TB, 3" straight pipe, V-stack, and a cone filter setup? So the straight pipe length is the stricky factor? What would a shorter/longer pipe do?

[alphaq69]

nice numbers man!!

the tq seems kinda low... but it's different with every motor i guess.
gj for zman. nice to see another b20 around the area with some good power.

[Nova_Dust]

I did some readings on v-stack.

I suppose if the v-stack is mounted on a SRI, which is still under the hood so intake temperature will pretty much stays the same. Since I am not getting any more cold air than before therefore no increase in more oxygen. So I don't have to (technically) do another dyno tune to add more fuel.

Don't want to lean out on the track.

I will first play with different air filter on the track.

[ComeOnKip]

this makes me feel much better about the b20 i just ordered.

looks like great numbers. must be fun to drive on around with torque and short gears.

[Nova_Dust]

Originally Posted by ComeOnKip

this makes me feel much better about the b20 i just ordered.

looks like great numbers. must be fun to drive on around with torque and short gears.

Stock B20 is a fairly reliable engine. The first mod for a B20 is short gear tranny, period. I mean, you can't use stock B20 tranny anyway so when you pair it up, it has to be some kind of B series tranny. I would say 4.785 ITR tranny is a really good choice, and use LSD when you can. I really wouldn't worry too much about the "fuel mileage" since you will be on 87 for a while until you do some work to it.

This engine has done me proud, from day one to today. Everyday is a fun day with this car.

[zman]

the 68mm throttle body doesn't help the torque much, and the Skunk2 intake manifold on the B20s is known to loose a little torque.
I would've liked to see a little more torque myself, but i think the results are pretty good. I really like how the power carries nicely to 7000-7500rpm, most b20s really start dying out at 5500-6000rpms.

This car is a fun street car and Charles (nova dust) will have lots of fun with this at the track events.

[d15Beta]

seeing the s2 manifold.. etc and other parts used..

me thinks a slightly longer than a shortram intake (3in uniform dia.) with a v-stack+filter at the end.. myt help a few more ponies and or torque.. tune the length on the dyno def will be better..

all in all.. nice solid numbers! i bet overtaking cars on the freeway is such a breeze huh!

[bombcat]

nice hp and torque numbers. looks like its a fun street car. also how do you like the cams?

[Nova_Dust]

Originally Posted by d15Beta

seeing the s2 manifold.. etc and other parts used..

me thinks a slightly longer than a shortram intake (3in uniform dia.) with a v-stack+filter at the end.. myt help a few more ponies and or torque.. tune the length on the dyno def will be better..

all in all.. nice solid numbers! i bet overtaking cars on the freeway is such a breeze huh!

Thanks man. I will keep the v-stack option in mind for sure. A little side project for the rest of the year. Car moves at 5th gear on highway, most of the time it is around 4000rpm so the engine is almost always around the power band. Though I still like to stay behind the pack, no need to lead the pack and get caught by the police.

Originally Posted by bombcat

nice hp and torque numbers. looks like its a fun street car. also how do you like the cams?

Thanks. I think these mild/stage 2 cams prove themselves worthy. Preserves decent mileage and idles fine. Though I don't mind rough idling myself, but for a first timer who went through his first engine build, I think this is a nice jump from stock engine. A little bit of performance increase is what I like and how I do things.

Next phase is either further weight reduction or more hp increase. I think I am leaning towards the first. But we will see.

[d15Beta]

nice! well i just based and asumed it may and could work for u... seeing ur rpm range is near exact to my sohc lol.. the longer intake def helped around 3-4k rpm and 7-8k <-- i think ur in that range too lol

[bombcat]

do you think a ls with similar mods could put down 160whp? also i see your into circuit racing, have u taken it on the track since the build?

[SIC_jdm_da9]

i like non vtec build for a DD but just to help out you should try running a high flow cat or test pipe there will be more hp unlocked for you and maybe a cold air would work best.

[alphaq69]

we dynoed 2 stock b20s with i/h/e. one with 2.25 exhaust put down 147whp and 145tq. and one with 2.5 exhaust put down 149.5whp and 142tq. power started dying after 6400.

but definitely love the fact that the power carries to 7 to 7.5 on a non vtec motor

[ComeOnKip]

I'm sure the ability to not choke up at the higher rpm ranges is due to the port work + slightly more aggy cam combo.

[Nova_Dust]

Originally Posted by bombcat

do you think a ls with similar mods could put down 160whp? also i see your into circuit racing, have u taken it on the track since the build?

Displacement will play a little factor, same as P8R head since it has bigger intake valve than P75 head. But I would say everything else being the same, depending on temperature and where you dyno, maybe 155-160?

I haven't this year, since the build was done about 2 months ago but I will track it at least at two events, and one being 9am-5pm full day time attack. Beat on the engine I will, for sure.

Originally Posted by SIC_jdm_da9

i like non vtec build for a DD but just to help out you should try running a high flow cat or test pipe there will be more hp unlocked for you and maybe a cold air would work best.

I do have a test pipe ready and will most likely swap it out for track day then go back to cat after. I personally hate the smell of exhaust fume so I wouldn't want to pollute any further. Also, being a modified vehicle on street, last thing I want is get caught with no cat.

Originally Posted by alphaq69

we dynoed 2 stock b20s with i/h/e. one with 2.25 exhaust put down 147whp and 145tq. and one with 2.5 exhaust put down 149.5whp and 142tq. power started dying after 6400.

but definitely love the fact that the power carries to 7 to 7.5 on a non vtec motor

I have a stock 2.25" catback setup and with that, car feels better at low end than top end. I would love to see 140+ wtq, but like Zman said, the Blox IM + 68mm TB probably didn't help as they might be more helpful for bigger cams. And with BC0022/62403 spec cams, they a probably undercammed for the IM and TB.

If possible, I might get 62404 cams and dyno that next year, since the valvetrain is ready for that anyway. Though I am not sure if ITR fuel pump is up for the job?

Originally Posted by ComeOnKip

I'm sure the ability to not choke up at the higher rpm ranges is due to the port work + slightly more aggy cam combo.

I think so too, plus with 33mm intake valve, I think that helped a bit as well.

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Thanks for the comments and suggestions guys.

[Nova_Dust]

I am also wondering why we didn't make power when we set the cam gears to +3/-3 but ended with some good results with -1/+3.

Was it because of lack of compression? Like stock piston shape with less peaky design?